How to prolong the life of your clutch
02-22-2012, 09:24 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
i did this to mine over the weekend. removed the plastic pieces, cleaned it out the best i could, ported it some and changed the fluid out and it seems to be working good. i used Wilwood Extreme Performance 600 Fluid. i went out to mexico last night and beat on it hard and didn't have any problems. it was sticking to the floor bad and would not go into higher gears till you pumped the clutch some. last night it worked perfect. thats with a cam, 150 shot and on hoosier dr's. but i did notice you can smell it more but its not like burned clutch smell.
02-23-2012, 09:03 AM
#42
Racer
i started mixing mine like 6 months ago. the 1st time i did it i used the ranger method about 5 times. i have been changing the fluid like every 2 weeks and right before i go to the track so I'm sure its all the high temp stuff by now.
so i didn't have a problem.
so i didn't have a problem.
02-24-2012, 08:31 PM
#43
Drifting
Member Since: Jul 2011
Location: Boca Raton Florida
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Jeremy, do you have some picture of the clutch stop you have made that you can post?. I love my vette but I hate this clutch (and I have been driving manuals for the last 40 years). It is like a switch, on or off, it took lot of getting used to it (if any). 3700 miles ago (when new) it would engage very low (that I liked better), now having adjusted it engages too high (for my taste), only on the top 1/3 of the travel, so lot of wasted motion, wear and tear.
Last edited by gsflyer2011; 02-24-2012 at 08:41 PM.
02-25-2012, 09:12 AM
#44
Melting Slicks
I switched to Prestone DOT 4 (my 11 GS requires DOT 4 fluid), it is fully synthetic (factory is not) and sold at most good auto stores, it has a higher boiling point than the factory and it is 1/3 of the price. This one stays much cleaner lot longer (the factory one would get dirty after few days), once you do the initial ranger method to get all of it replaced, I once a month suck out the old fluid just in the reservoir, replace it with fresh fluid and let driving around for few days take care of the mixing rather than sitting and pumping the heck out of the clutch (therefore wearing out the clutch springs unnecessarily).
Jeremy, do you have some picture of the clutch stop you have made that you can post?. I love my vette but I hate this clutch (and I have been driving manuals for the last 40 years). It is like a switch, on or off, it took lot of getting used to it (if any). 3700 miles ago (when new) it would engage very low (that I liked better), now having adjusted it engages too high (for my taste), only on the top 1/3 of the travel, so lot of wasted motion, wear and tear.
Jeremy, do you have some picture of the clutch stop you have made that you can post?. I love my vette but I hate this clutch (and I have been driving manuals for the last 40 years). It is like a switch, on or off, it took lot of getting used to it (if any). 3700 miles ago (when new) it would engage very low (that I liked better), now having adjusted it engages too high (for my taste), only on the top 1/3 of the travel, so lot of wasted motion, wear and tear.
I want to do this job today. What fluid do I need to find? It's a C5 so I assume the original fluid is Dot 3 but not synthetic.
02-25-2012, 10:17 AM
#45
Tech Contributor
I found Valvoline Dot 3-4 Synthetic Brake Fluid. They also had Prestone Dot 3 Brake Fluid. These were the only two offered at my Autozone, Advance and Napa. I have a Carquest and a Pep Boys I haven't checked yet.
I want to do this job today. What fluid do I need to find? It's a C5 so I assume the original fluid is Dot 3 but not synthetic.
I want to do this job today. What fluid do I need to find? It's a C5 so I assume the original fluid is Dot 3 but not synthetic.
02-25-2012, 11:39 AM
#46
Can you be reached at a bussiness #?
Let me be the first to say that this isn’t for everyone and that we don’t completely understand everything about clutches.
However, what is stated here will help extend the life of the clutch by keeping the clutch cooler and the fluid cleaner for much longer than any other method. This is primarily meant for those of us with stock clutches but will apply to all the aftermarket clutches as well. We have heard of many people that have put clutches in their vehicle when it may not have been necessary or many feel it is a mandatory upgrade with more power.
On our shop car we have a heads and cam C6 z06 with 585RWHP and 535RWTQ and 82K miles STOCK clutch from new and the car is driven like it is stolen, daily. The car has some drag racing time on it at the track but it is mostly thrashed on the street and road coursed as much as time and the budget allow. We have NEVER had the pedal stick to the floor and it takes about 5K miles for the fluid to change color let alone turn dark.
Drag racing does play havoc on a clutch but hopefully this will get those that are apprehensive out there to beat the tar out of their cars like they should be, it’s good for them!! It has been our experience that the 2 worst GM V8 vehicles out there for having issues with clutches are the GTO and the F-bodies. I would like to point out one thing that they have in common: They do not have an "exhaust" for clutch debris and heat. The back of the bell housing does not have vents like the Corvette and especially the C6. The 2 C6 vents are about 2" by 3/4" just beneath the clutch and in the back of the bell housing whereas the C5 was about 1/3 the size. The late model Camaro has a large vent roughly equivalent to the C6 size.
I mention all of this as an important backdrop that we will come back to shortly and I will try to tie it all together.
Even though this is a LONG write up IN SHORT it will only help even if you aren't have any issues.
I tried to illustrate with my kindergarten drawing ability
Check out the clutch airflow pic at the bottom.
-Bleed the clutch line
Many of us are familiar with Ranger's articles about using a turkey baster to draw out dirty fluid and then replenish with clean the fluid.
This helps, however it is not the solution for the larger issue, you will still continue to get filth in the clutch and reservoir.
Please understand I am extremely grateful for his contributions to the corvette community. Ranger sent the fluid to a lab to analyze what the dark substance was in the fluid and established that it was clutch material. Without this important piece of info we would have much less knowledge about this system. THANK YOU RANGER!!
As you USE the clutch you consume it and where does the debris go? As the clutch material is flung around within the bell housing the material gets past a seal into the slave cylinder and then the hydraulic system the fluid is contaminated and begins to darken. If allowed to worsen you eventually will have a sticking pedal and lose hydraulics. In most cases not permanent but often at the most inopportune times. It is best to address this as early as possible so you do not have permanent issues with the stock slave.
We are not sure but it seems likely that damage may be caused to the slave cylinder by the clutch particles embedding between the bore and piston of the slave. Catch it before its too late. Naturally a clutch should give off the most debris upon break-in.
The factory system moves a very small amount of fluid in a line from the reservoir to the slave, fore and aft. Naturally the most contaminants would be at the point of entry into the system, not just the reservoir two feet away. Bleeding the system like a brake or any other hydraulic system until the fluid is clear would rejuvenate and minimalize the contaminants.
A remote bleeder is nice and convenient but not all of us are willing or able to put a remote bleeder in or quite honestly I don’t know if you can even get one installed without tearing the torque tube and clutch out. So what can we do that is not too labor intensive and wont cost much? or How can we optimize this system and make it last? Whether its the basic STOCK clutch setup or a rather expensive aftermarket clutch this should only help. We are going to tell you how we do it in the car without too much labor.
The easiest way that we have found is to pull the intake manifold for the C5 and C6 Corvettes. We have ported hundreds of manifolds so we have become proficient at pulling intake manifolds. (Total time to clean head ports and put it back on about 45min.) This will allow one to lay in and across the engine bay. With your head right at the firewall with a 9mm combination wrench and a light just barely have enough room to see the port, pop off the rubber cap (leave it off) and open it while someone else is depressing the clutch pedal. Bleed it just like a brake system, one person (A) holds pedal, the other (B) opens the port till fluid pours out and then closes, (A) pumps pedal till firm again and then repeat till fluid is clear, 3-12 cycles. Remember to check the reservoir! Refill it so you do not get any air in the line. Earlier F bodies and GTOs may be accessible from under the car and may not require pulling the intake manifold.
-Open front of the bell housing by removing the plastic panels
There are 2 black plastic panels that cover the front side of the bell housing. The driver side has a small 3” panel held in place by 1-10mm bolt. The passenger side panel surrounds where the starter engages the flywheel. Disconnect battery, remove the 2- 15mm bolts and push the starter forward enough to pull out plastic panel. Before you reinstall the starter you can benefit from this wide open space. Check out the next step, Compressed air.
Total time will be between 10min and 1hr depending on stock exhaust manifold or headers and adjoining piping and space restraints and if on a lift or on the ground.
I would imagine that the panels were put in there to keep things from getting into the bell housing but the irony could be what was meant to protect the clutch hurt the longevity of it. The Driver side is shielded by the oil filter and the starter on the passenger side. It is quite amazing the amount of air moved by the clutch at idle from the “exhaust” ports of the bell housing, imagine what it would be in CFM@155mph 7k rpm. Ever heard of Smokey Yunicks flywheel supercharger?
Opening the front side of the bell housing is a crucial part of keeping things cleaner and cooler within the clutch. By allowing the front side of the bell housing to ingest airflow we now have a cross flow of air coming in and out of the bell housing and the faster we go the more volume of air through, like a radiator. With greater volume of high velocity air the clutch debris is expelled much more quickly rather than staying in the bell housing longer like the stock stagnant closed-front-entry (or it doesn’t exit but through a tiny hole like earlier Fbodies and GTOs). On our C6Z we even “ported” the “exhaust” side of the bell housing to even more aid in getting the airflow out. Futhermore, after about 7K miles we again cleaned it there was very little debris in the clutch and bell housing area and the fluid was in great shape too.
We feel that this is conclusive that it does keep the clutch much cleaner and cooler. What happens to a radiator when you block its airflow?
One more thing to mention about the GTOs and Fbodies: It has been our experience that the Heat and the clutch debris can very quickly ruin your fun. A few years back we had an ‘05 80K mile GTO with about 390RWHP and boltons, stock clutch. The vehicle was at a road course event and as the vehicle heated up it would lose hydraulics and not even be able to execute a gear shift by the end of a lap. We would have to draw out the DIRTY fluid and replace it every lap. (It is unknown how large a role the heat played it is difficult to test independently. When both sides of the bell housing are open it seems that it is no longer an issue.) Now looking back upon those experiences I know we could have resolved or at least greatly extended the proper functioning of the clutch. Since GTOs and earlier Fbodies do not have “exhausts” on their bell housings I would like to machine a few passages in there and see what happens......Now we have done the aforementioned methods to said vehicles and it has helped rather significantly but they NEED is the “exhaust” side opened up. When you take a look at the bigger picture you can see that it needs both clean high speed air in and high speed air out, just like an engine. Having only one side of it is merely half the battle.
-Use Compressed air and brake clean to blow out bell housing
Now that the panels are off you can get in there with a compressed air probe and blow out all the crevices of the clutch. We have been in there for over 10 minutes still finding more areas that blow out clouds or clutch debris. When you think you’ve blown it out enough keeping going. Then rotate the motor over with a breaker bar and do it again till there is no more clutch debris coming out. Next take 2-3 cans of brake clean and spray it all through anywhere you can. Wear a respirator and have some fans going in a well ventilated area, this is not good stuff to breathe in. Reassemble it and go beat the **** out of it.
We have a customer with a 30K mi 600RWHP C6Z that began to have some clutch slippage. We opened up the front side blew out and cleaned out the bell housing and has yet to have the problem again. One thing to consider is the contact surface of the disc and flywheel. If there is a boatload of dust in there, the surface has been compromised. The grip integrity of a clean surface has changed. Now it doesn't lay all the dust out evenly either so there is a even better chance that you will develop hot spots on the flywheel if one area slips on its own dust and another area grabs. Slowly we began to see how one thing leans on another, heat and dust ,dust and heat.
-Clutch stop and removal of the clutch spring
At the PRI show 2010 we spoke with a few clutch engineers about clutch stops for limiting travel and extending the life of any clutch by not over extending the springs in the pressure plate. From what we gleaned the more you extend a spring past a given point time and time again you will diminish its strength. The Ideal is to only depress the pedal to what is necessary for engagement and disengagement, anything more is wasted energy. What we want to do is reduce its travel by about 20-33%. If we limit the pedal travel by say 25% on the engagement and disengagement we can also reduce the shift times by a small amount.
We made our own clutch stop from: a freeze plug with a bolt with its head welded to the center of the concave side, 2 nuts and 2 lock washers. With the convex side contacting the clutch switch and the threaded side toward your foot (The C5 and C6 have a pad that contacts the clutch switch (until ’09) on the pedal that you can drill a place to set the spacing by adjusting the threaded portion of the bolt and jam nuts. There is a thread here somewhere on CF about that.
-Change the Fluid to a higher heat rating
We feel this is the least important but it is a factor. We went to MOTUL RBF 600 instead of the typical DOT3 as another measure to address what we felt could be part of the problem. We didn’t measure the temps within the bell housing but by running a very high boiling point fluid we felt that it was a good insurance to keep from having the clutch version of “brake fade”. With the temps encountered on a road course: coolant, trans, air temp, oil, brakes, etc. Wide open throttle and braking then upshifting and downshifting for half an hour non stop. There is no other way to simulate these on the street. This was our test bed as well as the street. It has held up much better than we have anticipated.
Well this research has been going on for a few years now and still learning everyday. Hopefully it didn't take you a year to read all of this
Often we are very busy so please be patient as I may only get back to this thread about once a week. Thank you all for reading and I hope that it is helpful to the LS community.
Jeremy Formato of FASTERPROMS
However, what is stated here will help extend the life of the clutch by keeping the clutch cooler and the fluid cleaner for much longer than any other method. This is primarily meant for those of us with stock clutches but will apply to all the aftermarket clutches as well. We have heard of many people that have put clutches in their vehicle when it may not have been necessary or many feel it is a mandatory upgrade with more power.
On our shop car we have a heads and cam C6 z06 with 585RWHP and 535RWTQ and 82K miles STOCK clutch from new and the car is driven like it is stolen, daily. The car has some drag racing time on it at the track but it is mostly thrashed on the street and road coursed as much as time and the budget allow. We have NEVER had the pedal stick to the floor and it takes about 5K miles for the fluid to change color let alone turn dark.
Drag racing does play havoc on a clutch but hopefully this will get those that are apprehensive out there to beat the tar out of their cars like they should be, it’s good for them!! It has been our experience that the 2 worst GM V8 vehicles out there for having issues with clutches are the GTO and the F-bodies. I would like to point out one thing that they have in common: They do not have an "exhaust" for clutch debris and heat. The back of the bell housing does not have vents like the Corvette and especially the C6. The 2 C6 vents are about 2" by 3/4" just beneath the clutch and in the back of the bell housing whereas the C5 was about 1/3 the size. The late model Camaro has a large vent roughly equivalent to the C6 size.
I mention all of this as an important backdrop that we will come back to shortly and I will try to tie it all together.
Even though this is a LONG write up IN SHORT it will only help even if you aren't have any issues.
I tried to illustrate with my kindergarten drawing ability
Check out the clutch airflow pic at the bottom.-Bleed the clutch line
Many of us are familiar with Ranger's articles about using a turkey baster to draw out dirty fluid and then replenish with clean the fluid.
This helps, however it is not the solution for the larger issue, you will still continue to get filth in the clutch and reservoir.
Please understand I am extremely grateful for his contributions to the corvette community. Ranger sent the fluid to a lab to analyze what the dark substance was in the fluid and established that it was clutch material. Without this important piece of info we would have much less knowledge about this system. THANK YOU RANGER!!
As you USE the clutch you consume it and where does the debris go? As the clutch material is flung around within the bell housing the material gets past a seal into the slave cylinder and then the hydraulic system the fluid is contaminated and begins to darken. If allowed to worsen you eventually will have a sticking pedal and lose hydraulics. In most cases not permanent but often at the most inopportune times. It is best to address this as early as possible so you do not have permanent issues with the stock slave.
We are not sure but it seems likely that damage may be caused to the slave cylinder by the clutch particles embedding between the bore and piston of the slave. Catch it before its too late. Naturally a clutch should give off the most debris upon break-in.
The factory system moves a very small amount of fluid in a line from the reservoir to the slave, fore and aft. Naturally the most contaminants would be at the point of entry into the system, not just the reservoir two feet away. Bleeding the system like a brake or any other hydraulic system until the fluid is clear would rejuvenate and minimalize the contaminants.
A remote bleeder is nice and convenient but not all of us are willing or able to put a remote bleeder in or quite honestly I don’t know if you can even get one installed without tearing the torque tube and clutch out. So what can we do that is not too labor intensive and wont cost much? or How can we optimize this system and make it last? Whether its the basic STOCK clutch setup or a rather expensive aftermarket clutch this should only help. We are going to tell you how we do it in the car without too much labor.
The easiest way that we have found is to pull the intake manifold for the C5 and C6 Corvettes. We have ported hundreds of manifolds so we have become proficient at pulling intake manifolds. (Total time to clean head ports and put it back on about 45min.) This will allow one to lay in and across the engine bay. With your head right at the firewall with a 9mm combination wrench and a light just barely have enough room to see the port, pop off the rubber cap (leave it off) and open it while someone else is depressing the clutch pedal. Bleed it just like a brake system, one person (A) holds pedal, the other (B) opens the port till fluid pours out and then closes, (A) pumps pedal till firm again and then repeat till fluid is clear, 3-12 cycles. Remember to check the reservoir! Refill it so you do not get any air in the line. Earlier F bodies and GTOs may be accessible from under the car and may not require pulling the intake manifold.
-Open front of the bell housing by removing the plastic panels
There are 2 black plastic panels that cover the front side of the bell housing. The driver side has a small 3” panel held in place by 1-10mm bolt. The passenger side panel surrounds where the starter engages the flywheel. Disconnect battery, remove the 2- 15mm bolts and push the starter forward enough to pull out plastic panel. Before you reinstall the starter you can benefit from this wide open space. Check out the next step, Compressed air.
Total time will be between 10min and 1hr depending on stock exhaust manifold or headers and adjoining piping and space restraints and if on a lift or on the ground.
I would imagine that the panels were put in there to keep things from getting into the bell housing but the irony could be what was meant to protect the clutch hurt the longevity of it. The Driver side is shielded by the oil filter and the starter on the passenger side. It is quite amazing the amount of air moved by the clutch at idle from the “exhaust” ports of the bell housing, imagine what it would be in CFM@155mph 7k rpm. Ever heard of Smokey Yunicks flywheel supercharger?
Opening the front side of the bell housing is a crucial part of keeping things cleaner and cooler within the clutch. By allowing the front side of the bell housing to ingest airflow we now have a cross flow of air coming in and out of the bell housing and the faster we go the more volume of air through, like a radiator. With greater volume of high velocity air the clutch debris is expelled much more quickly rather than staying in the bell housing longer like the stock stagnant closed-front-entry (or it doesn’t exit but through a tiny hole like earlier Fbodies and GTOs). On our C6Z we even “ported” the “exhaust” side of the bell housing to even more aid in getting the airflow out. Futhermore, after about 7K miles we again cleaned it there was very little debris in the clutch and bell housing area and the fluid was in great shape too.
We feel that this is conclusive that it does keep the clutch much cleaner and cooler. What happens to a radiator when you block its airflow?
One more thing to mention about the GTOs and Fbodies: It has been our experience that the Heat and the clutch debris can very quickly ruin your fun. A few years back we had an ‘05 80K mile GTO with about 390RWHP and boltons, stock clutch. The vehicle was at a road course event and as the vehicle heated up it would lose hydraulics and not even be able to execute a gear shift by the end of a lap. We would have to draw out the DIRTY fluid and replace it every lap. (It is unknown how large a role the heat played it is difficult to test independently. When both sides of the bell housing are open it seems that it is no longer an issue.) Now looking back upon those experiences I know we could have resolved or at least greatly extended the proper functioning of the clutch. Since GTOs and earlier Fbodies do not have “exhausts” on their bell housings I would like to machine a few passages in there and see what happens......Now we have done the aforementioned methods to said vehicles and it has helped rather significantly but they NEED is the “exhaust” side opened up. When you take a look at the bigger picture you can see that it needs both clean high speed air in and high speed air out, just like an engine. Having only one side of it is merely half the battle.
-Use Compressed air and brake clean to blow out bell housing
Now that the panels are off you can get in there with a compressed air probe and blow out all the crevices of the clutch. We have been in there for over 10 minutes still finding more areas that blow out clouds or clutch debris. When you think you’ve blown it out enough keeping going. Then rotate the motor over with a breaker bar and do it again till there is no more clutch debris coming out. Next take 2-3 cans of brake clean and spray it all through anywhere you can. Wear a respirator and have some fans going in a well ventilated area, this is not good stuff to breathe in. Reassemble it and go beat the **** out of it.
We have a customer with a 30K mi 600RWHP C6Z that began to have some clutch slippage. We opened up the front side blew out and cleaned out the bell housing and has yet to have the problem again. One thing to consider is the contact surface of the disc and flywheel. If there is a boatload of dust in there, the surface has been compromised. The grip integrity of a clean surface has changed. Now it doesn't lay all the dust out evenly either so there is a even better chance that you will develop hot spots on the flywheel if one area slips on its own dust and another area grabs. Slowly we began to see how one thing leans on another, heat and dust ,dust and heat.
-Clutch stop and removal of the clutch spring
At the PRI show 2010 we spoke with a few clutch engineers about clutch stops for limiting travel and extending the life of any clutch by not over extending the springs in the pressure plate. From what we gleaned the more you extend a spring past a given point time and time again you will diminish its strength. The Ideal is to only depress the pedal to what is necessary for engagement and disengagement, anything more is wasted energy. What we want to do is reduce its travel by about 20-33%. If we limit the pedal travel by say 25% on the engagement and disengagement we can also reduce the shift times by a small amount.
We made our own clutch stop from: a freeze plug with a bolt with its head welded to the center of the concave side, 2 nuts and 2 lock washers. With the convex side contacting the clutch switch and the threaded side toward your foot (The C5 and C6 have a pad that contacts the clutch switch (until ’09) on the pedal that you can drill a place to set the spacing by adjusting the threaded portion of the bolt and jam nuts. There is a thread here somewhere on CF about that.
-Change the Fluid to a higher heat rating
We feel this is the least important but it is a factor. We went to MOTUL RBF 600 instead of the typical DOT3 as another measure to address what we felt could be part of the problem. We didn’t measure the temps within the bell housing but by running a very high boiling point fluid we felt that it was a good insurance to keep from having the clutch version of “brake fade”. With the temps encountered on a road course: coolant, trans, air temp, oil, brakes, etc. Wide open throttle and braking then upshifting and downshifting for half an hour non stop. There is no other way to simulate these on the street. This was our test bed as well as the street. It has held up much better than we have anticipated.
Well this research has been going on for a few years now and still learning everyday. Hopefully it didn't take you a year to read all of this
Often we are very busy so please be patient as I may only get back to this thread about once a week. Thank you all for reading and I hope that it is helpful to the LS community.
Jeremy Formato of FASTERPROMS
02-25-2012, 06:58 PM
#47
Safety Car
i just did this to mine today after work. took less than a hour. pulled it on the drive on lift. unbolted and removed the cover on the drivers side. than took out the bolt on the pass side. used long needle nose pliers to just twist and break the cover (so i didnt have to remove headers or starter) then blow it out good , then used a whole can of brake clean blew it out. rotated motor can of cleaner blew it out, rotate once more, 1 more can of cleaner blew it out. then flushed fluid and replaced with wilwood high temp fluid ( just what we had sittin around)
way better results than i could have ever imagined. cant belive how much grabbier the clutch is.
the first week i owned the car i removed the assit spring, maybe tommorow or next weekend ill look into making a stop.
what a great cheap easy to do mod , that is truly beneficial
way better results than i could have ever imagined. cant belive how much grabbier the clutch is.
the first week i owned the car i removed the assit spring, maybe tommorow or next weekend ill look into making a stop.
what a great cheap easy to do mod , that is truly beneficial
Last edited by smurfkiller; 02-25-2012 at 07:00 PM.
02-25-2012, 09:45 PM
#48
i just did this to mine today after work. took less than a hour. pulled it on the drive on lift. unbolted and removed the cover on the drivers side. than took out the bolt on the pass side. used long needle nose pliers to just twist and break the cover (so i didnt have to remove headers or starter) then blow it out good , then used a whole can of brake clean blew it out. rotated motor can of cleaner blew it out, rotate once more, 1 more can of cleaner blew it out. then flushed fluid and replaced with wilwood high temp fluid ( just what we had sittin around)
way better results than i could have ever imagined. cant belive how much grabbier the clutch is.
the first week i owned the car i removed the assit spring, maybe tommorow or next weekend ill look into making a stop.
what a great cheap easy to do mod , that is truly beneficial
way better results than i could have ever imagined. cant belive how much grabbier the clutch is.
the first week i owned the car i removed the assit spring, maybe tommorow or next weekend ill look into making a stop.
what a great cheap easy to do mod , that is truly beneficial
Was your clutch hydraulic compromised other than the flush?
Your improved results sounds like imagination that is caught up with borderline mass hysteria!
02-26-2012, 08:56 AM
#49
Drifting
Most likely the brake kleen applied resulted in the "Grab " . Brakes can be grabbier also after cleaning.
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VFR RC46 (01-24-2019)
02-26-2012, 12:30 PM
#50
His flywheel contact surface must have been filthy!With all the brake clean use, I wonder if the grease on the output shaft and the throw out bearing got washed out too!
02-26-2012, 04:21 PM
#51
Melting Slicks
The cap does say dot 3 brake fluid but doesn't specify a type like the engine oil cap does. My local autozone, advance, napa, etc. only have prestone dot 3 and valvoline dot 3-4 synthetic. Several have told me that mixing is no problem so I guess I'll try this valvoline dot 3-4 synthetic. Using the MOTUL or Wildwood racing stuff seems unnecessary for a weekend type car.
Last edited by JaxEagle; 02-26-2012 at 04:32 PM.
02-26-2012, 08:44 PM
#52
Melting Slicks
Pharmacist ended up giving me a few syringes also. Worked fine. I used the Valvoline Dot 3/4 Syn. I don't think my fluid was quite as bad as I thought it was. After 1-2 cycles it was pretty clear. I did 5 cycles anyway and got a little bit more gunk out. From here I'll do it periodically to keep it clean. It does take longer to get the supplies out than to do the job.
Thanks Taken and ROC OUT and everyone else posting in this thread.
Thanks Taken and ROC OUT and everyone else posting in this thread.
02-26-2012, 10:17 PM
#53
Safety Car
no id have to say blowing out the 1lb of dust and yes soaking everything in brake clean gave me the results i saw. Today it still fills much better after 100 miles of driving.
02-27-2012, 12:21 AM
#54
is there a risk that the brake clean will damage any components of the clutch system, i.e., pressure plate, driven plate, flywheel, etc.
Let me be the first to say that this isn’t for everyone and that we don’t completely understand everything about clutches.
However, what is stated here will help extend the life of the clutch by keeping the clutch cooler and the fluid cleaner for much longer than any other method. This is primarily meant for those of us with stock clutches but will apply to all the aftermarket clutches as well. We have heard of many people that have put clutches in their vehicle when it may not have been necessary or many feel it is a mandatory upgrade with more power.
On our shop car we have a heads and cam C6 z06 with 585RWHP and 535RWTQ and 82K miles STOCK clutch from new and the car is driven like it is stolen, daily. The car has some drag racing time on it at the track but it is mostly thrashed on the street and road coursed as much as time and the budget allow. We have NEVER had the pedal stick to the floor and it takes about 5K miles for the fluid to change color let alone turn dark.
Drag racing does play havoc on a clutch but hopefully this will get those that are apprehensive out there to beat the tar out of their cars like they should be, it’s good for them!! It has been our experience that the 2 worst GM V8 vehicles out there for having issues with clutches are the GTO and the F-bodies. I would like to point out one thing that they have in common: They do not have an "exhaust" for clutch debris and heat. The back of the bell housing does not have vents like the Corvette and especially the C6. The 2 C6 vents are about 2" by 3/4" just beneath the clutch and in the back of the bell housing whereas the C5 was about 1/3 the size. The late model Camaro has a large vent roughly equivalent to the C6 size.
I mention all of this as an important backdrop that we will come back to shortly and I will try to tie it all together.
Even though this is a LONG write up IN SHORT it will only help even if you aren't have any issues.
I tried to illustrate with my kindergarten drawing ability Check out the clutch airflow pic at the bottom.
-Bleed the clutch line
Many of us are familiar with Ranger's articles about using a turkey baster to draw out dirty fluid and then replenish with clean the fluid.
This helps, however it is not the solution for the larger issue, you will still continue to get filth in the clutch and reservoir.
Please understand I am extremely grateful for his contributions to the corvette community. Ranger sent the fluid to a lab to analyze what the dark substance was in the fluid and established that it was clutch material. Without this important piece of info we would have much less knowledge about this system. THANK YOU RANGER!!
As you USE the clutch you consume it and where does the debris go? As the clutch material is flung around within the bell housing the material gets past a seal into the slave cylinder and then the hydraulic system the fluid is contaminated and begins to darken. If allowed to worsen you eventually will have a sticking pedal and lose hydraulics. In most cases not permanent but often at the most inopportune times. It is best to address this as early as possible so you do not have permanent issues with the stock slave.
We are not sure but it seems likely that damage may be caused to the slave cylinder by the clutch particles embedding between the bore and piston of the slave. Catch it before its too late. Naturally a clutch should give off the most debris upon break-in.
The factory system moves a very small amount of fluid in a line from the reservoir to the slave, fore and aft. Naturally the most contaminants would be at the point of entry into the system, not just the reservoir two feet away. Bleeding the system like a brake or any other hydraulic system until the fluid is clear would rejuvenate and minimalize the contaminants.
A remote bleeder is nice and convenient but not all of us are willing or able to put a remote bleeder in or quite honestly I don’t know if you can even get one installed without tearing the torque tube and clutch out. So what can we do that is not too labor intensive and wont cost much? or How can we optimize this system and make it last? Whether its the basic STOCK clutch setup or a rather expensive aftermarket clutch this should only help. We are going to tell you how we do it in the car without too much labor.
The easiest way that we have found is to pull the intake manifold for the C5 and C6 Corvettes. We have ported hundreds of manifolds so we have become proficient at pulling intake manifolds. (Total time to clean head ports and put it back on about 45min.) This will allow one to lay in and across the engine bay. With your head right at the firewall with a 9mm combination wrench and a light just barely have enough room to see the port, pop off the rubber cap (leave it off) and open it while someone else is depressing the clutch pedal. Bleed it just like a brake system, one person (A) holds pedal, the other (B) opens the port till fluid pours out and then closes, (A) pumps pedal till firm again and then repeat till fluid is clear, 3-12 cycles. Remember to check the reservoir! Refill it so you do not get any air in the line. Earlier F bodies and GTOs may be accessible from under the car and may not require pulling the intake manifold.
-Open front of the bell housing by removing the plastic panels
There are 2 black plastic panels that cover the front side of the bell housing. The driver side has a small 3” panel held in place by 1-10mm bolt. The passenger side panel surrounds where the starter engages the flywheel. Disconnect battery, remove the 2- 15mm bolts and push the starter forward enough to pull out plastic panel. Before you reinstall the starter you can benefit from this wide open space. Check out the next step, Compressed air.
Total time will be between 10min and 1hr depending on stock exhaust manifold or headers and adjoining piping and space restraints and if on a lift or on the ground.
I would imagine that the panels were put in there to keep things from getting into the bell housing but the irony could be what was meant to protect the clutch hurt the longevity of it. The Driver side is shielded by the oil filter and the starter on the passenger side. It is quite amazing the amount of air moved by the clutch at idle from the “exhaust” ports of the bell housing, imagine what it would be in CFM@155mph 7k rpm. Ever heard of Smokey Yunicks flywheel supercharger?
Opening the front side of the bell housing is a crucial part of keeping things cleaner and cooler within the clutch. By allowing the front side of the bell housing to ingest airflow we now have a cross flow of air coming in and out of the bell housing and the faster we go the more volume of air through, like a radiator. With greater volume of high velocity air the clutch debris is expelled much more quickly rather than staying in the bell housing longer like the stock stagnant closed-front-entry (or it doesn’t exit but through a tiny hole like earlier Fbodies and GTOs). On our C6Z we even “ported” the “exhaust” side of the bell housing to even more aid in getting the airflow out. Futhermore, after about 7K miles we again cleaned it there was very little debris in the clutch and bell housing area and the fluid was in great shape too.
We feel that this is conclusive that it does keep the clutch much cleaner and cooler. What happens to a radiator when you block its airflow?
One more thing to mention about the GTOs and Fbodies: It has been our experience that the Heat and the clutch debris can very quickly ruin your fun. A few years back we had an ‘05 80K mile GTO with about 390RWHP and boltons, stock clutch. The vehicle was at a road course event and as the vehicle heated up it would lose hydraulics and not even be able to execute a gear shift by the end of a lap. We would have to draw out the DIRTY fluid and replace it every lap. (It is unknown how large a role the heat played it is difficult to test independently. When both sides of the bell housing are open it seems that it is no longer an issue.) Now looking back upon those experiences I know we could have resolved or at least greatly extended the proper functioning of the clutch. Since GTOs and earlier Fbodies do not have “exhausts” on their bell housings I would like to machine a few passages in there and see what happens......Now we have done the aforementioned methods to said vehicles and it has helped rather significantly but they NEED is the “exhaust” side opened up. When you take a look at the bigger picture you can see that it needs both clean high speed air in and high speed air out, just like an engine. Having only one side of it is merely half the battle.
-Use Compressed air and brake clean to blow out bell housing
Now that the panels are off you can get in there with a compressed air probe and blow out all the crevices of the clutch. We have been in there for over 10 minutes still finding more areas that blow out clouds or clutch debris. When you think you’ve blown it out enough keeping going. Then rotate the motor over with a breaker bar and do it again till there is no more clutch debris coming out. Next take 2-3 cans of brake clean and spray it all through anywhere you can. Wear a respirator and have some fans going in a well ventilated area, this is not good stuff to breathe in. Reassemble it and go beat the **** out of it.
We have a customer with a 30K mi 600RWHP C6Z that began to have some clutch slippage. We opened up the front side blew out and cleaned out the bell housing and has yet to have the problem again. One thing to consider is the contact surface of the disc and flywheel. If there is a boatload of dust in there, the surface has been compromised. The grip integrity of a clean surface has changed. Now it doesn't lay all the dust out evenly either so there is a even better chance that you will develop hot spots on the flywheel if one area slips on its own dust and another area grabs. Slowly we began to see how one thing leans on another, heat and dust ,dust and heat.
-Clutch stop and removal of the clutch spring
At the PRI show 2010 we spoke with a few clutch engineers about clutch stops for limiting travel and extending the life of any clutch by not over extending the springs in the pressure plate. From what we gleaned the more you extend a spring past a given point time and time again you will diminish its strength. The Ideal is to only depress the pedal to what is necessary for engagement and disengagement, anything more is wasted energy. What we want to do is reduce its travel by about 20-33%. If we limit the pedal travel by say 25% on the engagement and disengagement we can also reduce the shift times by a small amount.
We made our own clutch stop from: a freeze plug with a bolt with its head welded to the center of the concave side, 2 nuts and 2 lock washers. With the convex side contacting the clutch switch and the threaded side toward your foot (The C5 and C6 have a pad that contacts the clutch switch (until ’09) on the pedal that you can drill a place to set the spacing by adjusting the threaded portion of the bolt and jam nuts. There is a thread here somewhere on CF about that.
-Change the Fluid to a higher heat rating
We feel this is the least important but it is a factor. We went to MOTUL RBF 600 instead of the typical DOT3 as another measure to address what we felt could be part of the problem. We didn’t measure the temps within the bell housing but by running a very high boiling point fluid we felt that it was a good insurance to keep from having the clutch version of “brake fade”. With the temps encountered on a road course: coolant, trans, air temp, oil, brakes, etc. Wide open throttle and braking then upshifting and downshifting for half an hour non stop. There is no other way to simulate these on the street. This was our test bed as well as the street. It has held up much better than we have anticipated.
Well this research has been going on for a few years now and still learning everyday. Hopefully it didn't take you a year to read all of this
Often we are very busy so please be patient as I may only get back to this thread about once a week. Thank you all for reading and I hope that it is helpful to the LS community.
Jeremy Formato of FASTERPROMS
However, what is stated here will help extend the life of the clutch by keeping the clutch cooler and the fluid cleaner for much longer than any other method. This is primarily meant for those of us with stock clutches but will apply to all the aftermarket clutches as well. We have heard of many people that have put clutches in their vehicle when it may not have been necessary or many feel it is a mandatory upgrade with more power.
On our shop car we have a heads and cam C6 z06 with 585RWHP and 535RWTQ and 82K miles STOCK clutch from new and the car is driven like it is stolen, daily. The car has some drag racing time on it at the track but it is mostly thrashed on the street and road coursed as much as time and the budget allow. We have NEVER had the pedal stick to the floor and it takes about 5K miles for the fluid to change color let alone turn dark.
Drag racing does play havoc on a clutch but hopefully this will get those that are apprehensive out there to beat the tar out of their cars like they should be, it’s good for them!! It has been our experience that the 2 worst GM V8 vehicles out there for having issues with clutches are the GTO and the F-bodies. I would like to point out one thing that they have in common: They do not have an "exhaust" for clutch debris and heat. The back of the bell housing does not have vents like the Corvette and especially the C6. The 2 C6 vents are about 2" by 3/4" just beneath the clutch and in the back of the bell housing whereas the C5 was about 1/3 the size. The late model Camaro has a large vent roughly equivalent to the C6 size.
I mention all of this as an important backdrop that we will come back to shortly and I will try to tie it all together.
Even though this is a LONG write up IN SHORT it will only help even if you aren't have any issues.
I tried to illustrate with my kindergarten drawing ability
Check out the clutch airflow pic at the bottom.-Bleed the clutch line
Many of us are familiar with Ranger's articles about using a turkey baster to draw out dirty fluid and then replenish with clean the fluid.
This helps, however it is not the solution for the larger issue, you will still continue to get filth in the clutch and reservoir.
Please understand I am extremely grateful for his contributions to the corvette community. Ranger sent the fluid to a lab to analyze what the dark substance was in the fluid and established that it was clutch material. Without this important piece of info we would have much less knowledge about this system. THANK YOU RANGER!!
As you USE the clutch you consume it and where does the debris go? As the clutch material is flung around within the bell housing the material gets past a seal into the slave cylinder and then the hydraulic system the fluid is contaminated and begins to darken. If allowed to worsen you eventually will have a sticking pedal and lose hydraulics. In most cases not permanent but often at the most inopportune times. It is best to address this as early as possible so you do not have permanent issues with the stock slave.
We are not sure but it seems likely that damage may be caused to the slave cylinder by the clutch particles embedding between the bore and piston of the slave. Catch it before its too late. Naturally a clutch should give off the most debris upon break-in.
The factory system moves a very small amount of fluid in a line from the reservoir to the slave, fore and aft. Naturally the most contaminants would be at the point of entry into the system, not just the reservoir two feet away. Bleeding the system like a brake or any other hydraulic system until the fluid is clear would rejuvenate and minimalize the contaminants.
A remote bleeder is nice and convenient but not all of us are willing or able to put a remote bleeder in or quite honestly I don’t know if you can even get one installed without tearing the torque tube and clutch out. So what can we do that is not too labor intensive and wont cost much? or How can we optimize this system and make it last? Whether its the basic STOCK clutch setup or a rather expensive aftermarket clutch this should only help. We are going to tell you how we do it in the car without too much labor.
The easiest way that we have found is to pull the intake manifold for the C5 and C6 Corvettes. We have ported hundreds of manifolds so we have become proficient at pulling intake manifolds. (Total time to clean head ports and put it back on about 45min.) This will allow one to lay in and across the engine bay. With your head right at the firewall with a 9mm combination wrench and a light just barely have enough room to see the port, pop off the rubber cap (leave it off) and open it while someone else is depressing the clutch pedal. Bleed it just like a brake system, one person (A) holds pedal, the other (B) opens the port till fluid pours out and then closes, (A) pumps pedal till firm again and then repeat till fluid is clear, 3-12 cycles. Remember to check the reservoir! Refill it so you do not get any air in the line. Earlier F bodies and GTOs may be accessible from under the car and may not require pulling the intake manifold.
-Open front of the bell housing by removing the plastic panels
There are 2 black plastic panels that cover the front side of the bell housing. The driver side has a small 3” panel held in place by 1-10mm bolt. The passenger side panel surrounds where the starter engages the flywheel. Disconnect battery, remove the 2- 15mm bolts and push the starter forward enough to pull out plastic panel. Before you reinstall the starter you can benefit from this wide open space. Check out the next step, Compressed air.
Total time will be between 10min and 1hr depending on stock exhaust manifold or headers and adjoining piping and space restraints and if on a lift or on the ground.
I would imagine that the panels were put in there to keep things from getting into the bell housing but the irony could be what was meant to protect the clutch hurt the longevity of it. The Driver side is shielded by the oil filter and the starter on the passenger side. It is quite amazing the amount of air moved by the clutch at idle from the “exhaust” ports of the bell housing, imagine what it would be in CFM@155mph 7k rpm. Ever heard of Smokey Yunicks flywheel supercharger?
Opening the front side of the bell housing is a crucial part of keeping things cleaner and cooler within the clutch. By allowing the front side of the bell housing to ingest airflow we now have a cross flow of air coming in and out of the bell housing and the faster we go the more volume of air through, like a radiator. With greater volume of high velocity air the clutch debris is expelled much more quickly rather than staying in the bell housing longer like the stock stagnant closed-front-entry (or it doesn’t exit but through a tiny hole like earlier Fbodies and GTOs). On our C6Z we even “ported” the “exhaust” side of the bell housing to even more aid in getting the airflow out. Futhermore, after about 7K miles we again cleaned it there was very little debris in the clutch and bell housing area and the fluid was in great shape too.
We feel that this is conclusive that it does keep the clutch much cleaner and cooler. What happens to a radiator when you block its airflow?
One more thing to mention about the GTOs and Fbodies: It has been our experience that the Heat and the clutch debris can very quickly ruin your fun. A few years back we had an ‘05 80K mile GTO with about 390RWHP and boltons, stock clutch. The vehicle was at a road course event and as the vehicle heated up it would lose hydraulics and not even be able to execute a gear shift by the end of a lap. We would have to draw out the DIRTY fluid and replace it every lap. (It is unknown how large a role the heat played it is difficult to test independently. When both sides of the bell housing are open it seems that it is no longer an issue.) Now looking back upon those experiences I know we could have resolved or at least greatly extended the proper functioning of the clutch. Since GTOs and earlier Fbodies do not have “exhausts” on their bell housings I would like to machine a few passages in there and see what happens......Now we have done the aforementioned methods to said vehicles and it has helped rather significantly but they NEED is the “exhaust” side opened up. When you take a look at the bigger picture you can see that it needs both clean high speed air in and high speed air out, just like an engine. Having only one side of it is merely half the battle.
-Use Compressed air and brake clean to blow out bell housing
Now that the panels are off you can get in there with a compressed air probe and blow out all the crevices of the clutch. We have been in there for over 10 minutes still finding more areas that blow out clouds or clutch debris. When you think you’ve blown it out enough keeping going. Then rotate the motor over with a breaker bar and do it again till there is no more clutch debris coming out. Next take 2-3 cans of brake clean and spray it all through anywhere you can. Wear a respirator and have some fans going in a well ventilated area, this is not good stuff to breathe in. Reassemble it and go beat the **** out of it.
We have a customer with a 30K mi 600RWHP C6Z that began to have some clutch slippage. We opened up the front side blew out and cleaned out the bell housing and has yet to have the problem again. One thing to consider is the contact surface of the disc and flywheel. If there is a boatload of dust in there, the surface has been compromised. The grip integrity of a clean surface has changed. Now it doesn't lay all the dust out evenly either so there is a even better chance that you will develop hot spots on the flywheel if one area slips on its own dust and another area grabs. Slowly we began to see how one thing leans on another, heat and dust ,dust and heat.
-Clutch stop and removal of the clutch spring
At the PRI show 2010 we spoke with a few clutch engineers about clutch stops for limiting travel and extending the life of any clutch by not over extending the springs in the pressure plate. From what we gleaned the more you extend a spring past a given point time and time again you will diminish its strength. The Ideal is to only depress the pedal to what is necessary for engagement and disengagement, anything more is wasted energy. What we want to do is reduce its travel by about 20-33%. If we limit the pedal travel by say 25% on the engagement and disengagement we can also reduce the shift times by a small amount.
We made our own clutch stop from: a freeze plug with a bolt with its head welded to the center of the concave side, 2 nuts and 2 lock washers. With the convex side contacting the clutch switch and the threaded side toward your foot (The C5 and C6 have a pad that contacts the clutch switch (until ’09) on the pedal that you can drill a place to set the spacing by adjusting the threaded portion of the bolt and jam nuts. There is a thread here somewhere on CF about that.
-Change the Fluid to a higher heat rating
We feel this is the least important but it is a factor. We went to MOTUL RBF 600 instead of the typical DOT3 as another measure to address what we felt could be part of the problem. We didn’t measure the temps within the bell housing but by running a very high boiling point fluid we felt that it was a good insurance to keep from having the clutch version of “brake fade”. With the temps encountered on a road course: coolant, trans, air temp, oil, brakes, etc. Wide open throttle and braking then upshifting and downshifting for half an hour non stop. There is no other way to simulate these on the street. This was our test bed as well as the street. It has held up much better than we have anticipated.
Well this research has been going on for a few years now and still learning everyday. Hopefully it didn't take you a year to read all of this
Often we are very busy so please be patient as I may only get back to this thread about once a week. Thank you all for reading and I hope that it is helpful to the LS community.
Jeremy Formato of FASTERPROMS
02-27-2012, 09:26 PM
#55
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
Hey guys been really busy in and out of town. I do not feel that there is any detriment to using brake clean to get out all the junk in there. The suggestions made have all been tested and work for us and for the cars that we have serviced. Feel free to do it your own way and make improvements I just ask that you please share. We know our method is thorough, it works and will do what we say it will....Prolong the life of the clutch.
Contact info is fastprom@tampabay.rr.com the cell is the best way to get a hold of me as I spend much time at the dyno 813-495-8778 9am-8pm EST ( and 5 cars to tune tomorrow). Shop number is 813-476-7364.
Thank you guys for reading and sharing your experiences.
Jeremy Formato
Contact info is fastprom@tampabay.rr.com the cell is the best way to get a hold of me as I spend much time at the dyno 813-495-8778 9am-8pm EST ( and 5 cars to tune tomorrow). Shop number is 813-476-7364.
Thank you guys for reading and sharing your experiences.
Jeremy Formato
02-27-2012, 10:49 PM
#56
Interaction between clutch disk and flywheel resulted end product should not be more than dust. If you have pieces of clutch fiber, unidentifiable rubbish, or as one member collected "one pond" of dust from the cleaning effort. I would be concern to say the least.
I just completed my daughter's clutch due to blown clutch. Clutch fibers and clutch pieces were contained in bellhouseing internal, flywheel area and cracks/crevices through out. Fortunately, didn't amount to 1 lb. or I would be really concern!!
I personally wouldn't be too concern with using Brake Clean on 100% metal parts, but I wouldn't use it indiscriminately where I can not have 100% visual verification or control. Example, clutch release bearing and the spline on the input shaft has grease, there is just no assurance to prevent Brake Clean not migrating into those two areas to degrade the little grease on the two parts necessary for lubrication for smooth clutch actuation!
Brake Clean is a powerful degreaser as well as hazardous!
Read up on Brake Clean MSDS. And use with personal protection and care!
I just completed my daughter's clutch due to blown clutch. Clutch fibers and clutch pieces were contained in bellhouseing internal, flywheel area and cracks/crevices through out. Fortunately, didn't amount to 1 lb. or I would be really concern!!
I personally wouldn't be too concern with using Brake Clean on 100% metal parts, but I wouldn't use it indiscriminately where I can not have 100% visual verification or control. Example, clutch release bearing and the spline on the input shaft has grease, there is just no assurance to prevent Brake Clean not migrating into those two areas to degrade the little grease on the two parts necessary for lubrication for smooth clutch actuation!
Brake Clean is a powerful degreaser as well as hazardous!
Read up on Brake Clean MSDS. And use with personal protection and care!
The following users liked this post:
VFR RC46 (01-24-2019)
03-11-2012, 10:12 PM
#58
Former Vendor
Thread Starter
I did mention but not elaborate on the clutch spring on the pedal. The spring almost acts as though it is a helper spring to soften first half of the clutch depression and then the depression is a bit firmer thereafter. We have pulled over 100 of these and never had anyone want it back in there. The best summation is that it gives a better feel for the engagement point. It allows you to FEEL the engagement point more accurately. It does make the pedal a shade firmer. It also returns firmer. This when coupled with a clutch stop altogether changes the whole clutch dynamic.
Jeremy
Jeremy
03-12-2012, 08:20 AM
#59
Drifting
I did mention but not elaborate on the clutch spring on the pedal. The spring almost acts as though it is a helper spring to soften first half of the clutch depression and then the depression is a bit firmer thereafter. We have pulled over 100 of these and never had anyone want it back in there. The best summation is that it gives a better feel for the engagement point. It allows you to FEEL the engagement point more accurately. It does make the pedal a shade firmer. It also returns firmer. This when coupled with a clutch stop altogether changes the whole clutch dynamic.
Jeremy
Jeremy
Roger that on the pedal spring delete . Yanked mine 5 years ago, better feel and less likely to stick on the floor @ high rpm shifts .
03-12-2012, 09:57 AM
#60
Le Mans Master
Member Since: May 2011
Location: Tampa FL (formerly Justinjor)
Posts: 5,022
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
9 Posts
Tech Contributor
St. Jude Donor '11-'12-'13-'14
Best way to describe the feeling of the clutch spring being removed--it makes the pedal linear for the entire push. It no longer has the hiccup where its soft, then hard, then soft again. It's a steady firm pedal from the top of the travel, to the very bottom.
It's probably one of my favorite mods as the clutch now feels like the clutch of a car making 500whp instead of like my wife's Mini cooper.
It's probably one of my favorite mods as the clutch now feels like the clutch of a car making 500whp instead of like my wife's Mini cooper.