Spark plug wires falling off the coils.
12-18-2012, 06:15 PM
#1
Drifting
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Spark plug wires falling off the coils.
I know this topic has been here before few times (as I was researching the forum) but I am compelled to post this as the real reasons and solutions were not adressed. One supporting vendor went as far as saying the OEM wires were the best. I have only one response to that, nuts!...
Below is my long excerpt to my online Vette buddy in TX. For anyone who is interested. The vehicle is a 2011 GS with 6500 miles.
"So Anyhow, I got curious as to why the wire fell of the coil. I also wanted to check all others. When I took it off, I saw that the coil connector on the wire has also some sort of a small metal clip around it and that had cracked and fell off as tried to straighten it. I decided to take it to the dealer and as I was taking the next one off, although I was not pulling on the wire but the boot, the half a turn they ask you to do rotated and split the wire right where it goes into the spark plug boot and that wire was toast (infinite OHMS). I took it to the dealer, he said I cannot give you two wires, you need to bring the car and we have to write it up (they did not have them in stock anyhow) I said forget that s..., what do you want me to, carry the car on my back? I'll just buy the darn things, how much are they?. $30 per wire retail! but they will give it to me for $20 each!. I said are you guys are out of your minds?. Called my friends at the horsepower, and they have the MSD's in stock and the whole kit is $77 plus tax. No brainer. Drove there and picked up a set. The very first impression is that the vendor that says OEM's are best is full of MS. As far as quality, feel substance of both materials and the connectors are like comparing MB S500 to Chevy Cruise. Very nice. I measured every wire for resistance, they were all under 35 ohms (for the entire length which is less than a foot) and the OEM ones were all around 800 ohms for the same length. The OEM's are 7 MM, and extremely fragile. Trust me you do not want to touch them unless you have spares or a new set. just like inside trim fasteners man. The MSD super conductors (by the way part number #32819 for our cars) are 8.5 MM and advertised with less than 50 ohms per foot.
So, obviously fate decided for me that it would be MSD's. It is good, my last vette had them and they did make a difference. There are also GM performance blue wires on the net, for as little as $61 per set and they advertise 600 OHMS per foot, but why not buy the very best (but I am not spending $400 for gratenellis) while you can? This way also I can put them on today rather than waiting few days for any of those to arrive!
Just finished putting them on. When I pulled off the cover on the driver side I saw that another wire was just ready to fall off the coil. That is nuts man!. It was almost completely out and the small metal clip all stretched ready to fall off too.
When MSD's go on they go on with one click on the spark plug, with satisfying two clicks on the coils. remember that, that is important. I learned that from the forum as there are no instructions in the box. You are not going to use the shields that were with the original plugs, the silicon boots are much better on these so they are not needed. (However if you were running headers, I would put cool socks over them). Initially they feel little too short (one guy complained about this on the forum) but I measured them side by side and overall they are exactly the same length. However on the MSD's the spark plug boots are almost 1.5 inches longer (to provide more shielding extending out and around the exhaust manifold shields) so that puts some tension on the wire as they bend upwards slightly (and they are way more thicker than the OEM ones) so that is what causing this impression. In any case the terminals are guaranteed not to come off.
When you pull the old ones out, twist half a turn and ease it out gently by moving (both right and left) and slightly tugging on the boots. Be very gentle as they are extremely fragile! (so you can say I have all original parts in 30 years..:-). Put thin coat of dielectric grease on the inside of the spark plug boots and some around the porcelain of the spark plugs (on the MSD's). I put some on the coil sides too but that is probably not needed it but will keep out the moisture. The old ones that came out had quite a bit of corrosion on and around the metal connectors on both ends. This will make it easier to get them off in the future if need be, especially from the spark plugs. All the plugs were tight (11 Ft-LBS). I am going to test drive tomorrow morning and let you know. I did not want to start it up just for that and only few miles (10.5 quarts of oil to warm up). Tomorrow I've got places to go so it will be a good test."
Below is my long excerpt to my online Vette buddy in TX. For anyone who is interested. The vehicle is a 2011 GS with 6500 miles.
"So Anyhow, I got curious as to why the wire fell of the coil. I also wanted to check all others. When I took it off, I saw that the coil connector on the wire has also some sort of a small metal clip around it and that had cracked and fell off as tried to straighten it. I decided to take it to the dealer and as I was taking the next one off, although I was not pulling on the wire but the boot, the half a turn they ask you to do rotated and split the wire right where it goes into the spark plug boot and that wire was toast (infinite OHMS). I took it to the dealer, he said I cannot give you two wires, you need to bring the car and we have to write it up (they did not have them in stock anyhow) I said forget that s..., what do you want me to, carry the car on my back? I'll just buy the darn things, how much are they?. $30 per wire retail! but they will give it to me for $20 each!. I said are you guys are out of your minds?. Called my friends at the horsepower, and they have the MSD's in stock and the whole kit is $77 plus tax. No brainer. Drove there and picked up a set. The very first impression is that the vendor that says OEM's are best is full of MS. As far as quality, feel substance of both materials and the connectors are like comparing MB S500 to Chevy Cruise. Very nice. I measured every wire for resistance, they were all under 35 ohms (for the entire length which is less than a foot) and the OEM ones were all around 800 ohms for the same length. The OEM's are 7 MM, and extremely fragile. Trust me you do not want to touch them unless you have spares or a new set. just like inside trim fasteners man. The MSD super conductors (by the way part number #32819 for our cars) are 8.5 MM and advertised with less than 50 ohms per foot.
So, obviously fate decided for me that it would be MSD's. It is good, my last vette had them and they did make a difference. There are also GM performance blue wires on the net, for as little as $61 per set and they advertise 600 OHMS per foot, but why not buy the very best (but I am not spending $400 for gratenellis) while you can? This way also I can put them on today rather than waiting few days for any of those to arrive!
Just finished putting them on. When I pulled off the cover on the driver side I saw that another wire was just ready to fall off the coil. That is nuts man!. It was almost completely out and the small metal clip all stretched ready to fall off too.
When MSD's go on they go on with one click on the spark plug, with satisfying two clicks on the coils. remember that, that is important. I learned that from the forum as there are no instructions in the box. You are not going to use the shields that were with the original plugs, the silicon boots are much better on these so they are not needed. (However if you were running headers, I would put cool socks over them). Initially they feel little too short (one guy complained about this on the forum) but I measured them side by side and overall they are exactly the same length. However on the MSD's the spark plug boots are almost 1.5 inches longer (to provide more shielding extending out and around the exhaust manifold shields) so that puts some tension on the wire as they bend upwards slightly (and they are way more thicker than the OEM ones) so that is what causing this impression. In any case the terminals are guaranteed not to come off.
When you pull the old ones out, twist half a turn and ease it out gently by moving (both right and left) and slightly tugging on the boots. Be very gentle as they are extremely fragile! (so you can say I have all original parts in 30 years..:-). Put thin coat of dielectric grease on the inside of the spark plug boots and some around the porcelain of the spark plugs (on the MSD's). I put some on the coil sides too but that is probably not needed it but will keep out the moisture. The old ones that came out had quite a bit of corrosion on and around the metal connectors on both ends. This will make it easier to get them off in the future if need be, especially from the spark plugs. All the plugs were tight (11 Ft-LBS). I am going to test drive tomorrow morning and let you know. I did not want to start it up just for that and only few miles (10.5 quarts of oil to warm up). Tomorrow I've got places to go so it will be a good test."
Last edited by gsflyer2011; 12-19-2012 at 01:32 PM.
12-18-2012, 07:04 PM
#2
Melting Slicks
Thanks for posting, I broke two of my cables last Saturday I will stop by HPS over the weekend.
12-18-2012, 11:54 PM
#3
Great post man. No doubt the cheap stock wires are somewhat responsible for the sometimes rough idle on our LS3s. But even if they're not, I just ordered an MSD set from SummitRacing; $71 shipped. That'll give me piece of mind 
... even though I only have 3K on my '12 GS. And they'll compliment the red valve cover letters nicely 
, while looking sportier as well. Looking forward to your testimonial after your test drive. Thanks again for posting.
... even though I only have 3K on my '12 GS. And they'll compliment the red valve cover letters nicely , while looking sportier as well. Looking forward to your testimonial after your test drive. Thanks again for posting.
Last edited by JCtx; 12-19-2012 at 01:35 PM.
12-19-2012, 08:52 AM
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Also had a plug wire fall off the coil, 2012 GS with 3,500 miles. In addition to check engine ligt and ruff idle, had lights for service traction control and service active handling. Can't believe that GM halo car would have these issues.
12-19-2012, 01:15 PM
#5
Drifting
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OK, a report after the test drive
Wow!, It is amazing such a small thing like this (on the second thought it is not small, important as hell!) makes such a difference!. I truly wasnt expecting this much improvement thinking all the brains at GM would have been smarter, and with much improved ignition systems and individual coils I would get very little or no improvement on this car. In certain cases it could be even detrimental as hotter spark could actually cause cavitation and take away from the performance. It is a science on its own.
The best $80 I have ever spent. MSD 8.5 MM super conductors are everything advertised and more. Car starts immediately, idle stabilizes within 5 seconds, no bucking or shaking for a 30-40 seconds like it used to be. Throttle response is MAJOR improvement, all throught the range but especially on low RPM stop and go daily driving. Engine sounds better, it feels like it is producing at least 4-5 more HP (just like turning off the AC) it makes the whole car more responsive and tighter!. And did I say Idle?. It is sweet. The whole car feels like it just had a tune!
It was so good, I wanted to keep driving. My 20 mile errand was extended and turned into a 40 mile joy ride. I had a smile on my face all the way.
Wow!, It is amazing such a small thing like this (on the second thought it is not small, important as hell!) makes such a difference!. I truly wasnt expecting this much improvement thinking all the brains at GM would have been smarter, and with much improved ignition systems and individual coils I would get very little or no improvement on this car. In certain cases it could be even detrimental as hotter spark could actually cause cavitation and take away from the performance. It is a science on its own.
The best $80 I have ever spent. MSD 8.5 MM super conductors are everything advertised and more. Car starts immediately, idle stabilizes within 5 seconds, no bucking or shaking for a 30-40 seconds like it used to be. Throttle response is MAJOR improvement, all throught the range but especially on low RPM stop and go daily driving. Engine sounds better, it feels like it is producing at least 4-5 more HP (just like turning off the AC) it makes the whole car more responsive and tighter!. And did I say Idle?. It is sweet. The whole car feels like it just had a tune!
It was so good, I wanted to keep driving. My 20 mile errand was extended and turned into a 40 mile joy ride. I had a smile on my face all the way.
Last edited by gsflyer2011; 12-19-2012 at 01:25 PM.
12-19-2012, 01:41 PM
#6
. Best wishes gang.
12-19-2012, 02:23 PM
#7
Drifting
Very interesting GSFlyer & many thanks for the detailed posts.
My '12 GS only has @ 6k miles, idles perfectly @ 500-600 right after start-up, so I'm hesistant to fix what ain't broke, but $70 seems like inexpensive piece of mind.
What's involved with removing the wires from the coils? I re-read your posts, but further detail/clarification would be much appreciated...thanks in advance!
My '12 GS only has @ 6k miles, idles perfectly @ 500-600 right after start-up, so I'm hesistant to fix what ain't broke, but $70 seems like inexpensive piece of mind.
What's involved with removing the wires from the coils? I re-read your posts, but further detail/clarification would be much appreciated...thanks in advance!
12-19-2012, 02:36 PM
#8
Thanks for the heads up. I have some heat shields on order as I recently had headers installed. I thought just my luck, I will break the wires, so I ordered a set of the MSD wires from Summit Racing. $75 delivered.
12-19-2012, 02:40 PM
#9
Very interesting GSFlyer & many thanks for the detailed posts.
My '12 GS only has @ 6k miles, idles perfectly @ 500-600 right after start-up, so I'm hesistant to fix what ain't broke, but $70 seems like inexpensive piece of mind.
What's involved with removing the wires from the coils? I re-read your posts, but further detail/clarification would be much appreciated...thanks in advance!
My '12 GS only has @ 6k miles, idles perfectly @ 500-600 right after start-up, so I'm hesistant to fix what ain't broke, but $70 seems like inexpensive piece of mind.
What's involved with removing the wires from the coils? I re-read your posts, but further detail/clarification would be much appreciated...thanks in advance!
12-20-2012, 08:07 PM
#11
SUBVETTE
I've been running MSD wires with AR Headers for the past year and had no issues with heat. The MSD spark plug boots are designed so you can bend them away from the headers to get the best separation to protect from heat. I see no need to use socks or other heat shield protection.
12-21-2012, 08:16 PM
#12
Just got my wires from Summit Racing... in 2 freaking days . I'm in the process of installing them. All stock ones are out. Since I don't plann to even keep those POS, I used needle-nose locking pliers and a rubber mallet's handle as a lever to push the boots out of the plugs. Messed up the metal sleeves a little. For the coils used a plastic trim tool. No need to remove anything other than the 2 plastic fuel rail covers (FRCs).
My car was running fine, as expected with only 3K miles, but with a slightly erratic idle at moments while at stop lights. Just measured the resistance on the stock wires and all have around 748 ohms, vs 25 (yes, twenty five) for the MSDs. That's a HUGE difference. Even if nothing changes noticeably, money well spent IMO.
Hey gang, is there a need to put dielectric grease on the plug's porcelain? Debating if I put any or not. The stock plugs had some green crap, which I assume was dielectric grease. They might not need more. Will call my buddy GSFlyer to see how he put it. I can't stick my fingers in there; plugs are way too deep. Only way is to put it on the new wires, but it might be pushed into the connector, and we don't want that. Thanks.
. I'm in the process of installing them. All stock ones are out. Since I don't plann to even keep those POS, I used needle-nose locking pliers and a rubber mallet's handle as a lever to push the boots out of the plugs. Messed up the metal sleeves a little. For the coils used a plastic trim tool. No need to remove anything other than the 2 plastic fuel rail covers (FRCs). My car was running fine, as expected with only 3K miles, but with a slightly erratic idle at moments while at stop lights. Just measured the resistance on the stock wires and all have around 748 ohms, vs 25 (yes, twenty five) for the MSDs. That's a HUGE difference. Even if nothing changes noticeably, money well spent IMO.
Hey gang, is there a need to put dielectric grease on the plug's porcelain? Debating if I put any or not. The stock plugs had some green crap, which I assume was dielectric grease. They might not need more. Will call my buddy GSFlyer to see how he put it. I can't stick my fingers in there; plugs are way too deep. Only way is to put it on the new wires, but it might be pushed into the connector, and we don't want that. Thanks.