dwat8841

I have a 2011 Grand Sport 'vert, auto, bought new in July '11, 13,000 miles. I decided in Oct '11 to buy engine and trans tune from COW. Very nice improvement in response and shifting, very pleased.

In Aug '12, I started hearing a rattle underneath car about mid-length. It continued to get louder so I went to dealer. 10 days later, they said the bearing in the torque tube were bad and replaced them, under warranty. In Oct '12, same noise, same length to repair, entire torque tube was replaced, under warranty.

Heard a different noise this time, louder in engine compartment at 1800 RPM's. Went to dealer last Wednesday, called today and GM engineer said replace torque tube again. I asked the service rep if he thought this was strange. He said that since I had "some after-market calibrations, he was surprised that GM had warrantied any of the work and probably would not the next time".

Has anyone had similar problems? Can GM pick and choose which work to warranty? I realize that the COW tune could void warranty but they honored the first two replacements, and I assume they will honor this one.

Any similar experiences? Thanks

ChevyDave

Can an automotive dealership (or GM itself) void your warranty?

answer YES.
answer NO.

there is a law which they are required to follow. if you are still right and they should pay then it all depends on how you pressure them and at what point , will they concede before going to trial.


for your reading pleasure. actually you should be somewhat versed in the following information...

the first point and to me, the most important point is this... They that are voiding warrenty, MUST state in WRITTING why they refuse warrenty. failing to state in writting why warrenty is refused already breaks the 1st part of the law and at that point they have already lost their case. ( they cant write because ya voided it, they MUST state exactly what voided it and that must be a winnable argument in front of a jury )

Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act
http://www.impalaclub.com/naisso/magmoss.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnuso...s_Warranty_Act
http://autos.aol.com/article/warrant...rmarket-parts/
http://www.mlmlaw.com/library/guides...s/undermag.htm

Cust Svc number is... 866-790-5600 (i wrote that down but i cant find link to the article, should still be valid)

KB9GKC

Hello,

I have a stock 2006 A6 Corvette and the torque tube bearings were replaced 3 times in the first 18 thousand miles under warranty.

In May 2010 the stock motor blew at 20,000 miles and was just out of warranty. Bought a new LS2 engine, broke it in gently and runs incredibly strong with about 6,000 miles on the motor.

Hope my torque tube bearings don't go bad again.

Douglas in Green Bay

debo

I have a weird noise that I hear around 2k rpm in the same area while driving, but unsure if it's the torque tube. Is there anyway I can diagnose to confirm it's the torque tube?

dwat8841

I have not been told of any diagnostics that help. My first two episodes caused a "rattle" about midship...the technician at the dealer seemed stumped as well. I don't get a warm, fuzzy feeling with this dealership!!! They called GM engineers and were told what to do. It's unfortunate that it is very difficult to find a true mechanic now a days. Most are parts swappers

taken19

Easiest way to diagnose is tracking noise with engine speed or vehicle speed. Manual is much easier than an auto, but I think it can be done. Try a search with replies from Joe G. He has offered incredible advice to me over the past couple years and others on the forum.

When my TT bearing went out, it sounded like a scraping noise at a very specific engine speed. Pulling the drivetrain, although daunting, really isn't too bad if you have good mechanical ability and some help. TT bearings can be replaced in 1 day with experience, 2 days for a first timer.

SnowyATX

Sorry about your troubles. I can't answer your question but I am wondering if you heard the noise all the time at that RPM or if you only heard it randomly around that same RPM. I have a similar rattle midship but it comes and goes, i.e. mostly does it after the car is warmed up.

Good luck on solving your problem.

dwat8841

My first two episodes were constant rattles midship. The third time has been more noticeable from the engine compartment. The sound is a constant knocking sound heard loudest at 1800 rpms. Has no effect on engine performance.

0Chuck CoW

Using the forum as a guide, you should be able to see that this NOT and ordinary or common problem...

Even with your "Aftermarket Calibration".

You have to consider just how many Edelbrock Superchargers, we install on these vehicles,

headers, and other power adders. Regardless of how you use or abuse your vehicle,

it's VERY unlikely you could hurt the car given your very minor mods.

My take is that you got a "fluke" of a torque tube and you somehow bent it.

My guess is that to save money, the tech or dealership decided to replace the rubber quibos and or

torque tube bearings AND NOT THE ENTIRE SHAFT.

When looking at the shaft, it has a fiber/plastic ring around the center.

It keeps the tube from bending "TOO FAR" by contacting the inner diameter of the

aluminum housing preventing futher bending.

I've inspected and re-installed inner driveshafts more than once that "looked" fine. We

changed the guibos and bearings and the same thing happened again.

A BENT tube will NOT look bent and even spin pretty straight in a lathe, but rest assured....It's JUNK.

You can see the rub mark if you look carefully inside the housing with a flashlight or run your

finger around the fiber ring on the shaft...The plastic will be melted or "rubbed" slightly where it makes contact.

Regardless of how it happened, changing small parts wont fix it... and leaving a slightly bent

tube in there will quickly ruin any new parts you add if you drive it.

My advice is replace the tube and guibos from someone like DRIVESHAFT SHOP or Pfadt.

It becomes a one time fix and you'll be happy.

Not sure why it happened to you, but it's like justifying why one person gets cancer and others dont.

We can suspect lots of things, but sometimes it's just on a level that's soooo small we will just never know.

Call me if you need help.
Chuck CoW

victorf

^^^"A BENT tube will NOT look bent and even spin pretty straight in a lathe". ---WHAT??

When a person can not visually tell a bent tube from straight is one thing, but if it is correctly indicated and mounted on a lathe, it is another.

Case in point, lets just use either a basic 3 or 6 jaw self centering chuck, to avoid confusing from those don't know how to set up a 4 jaw. With just 1/2" away from chuck face mounted, when turning over, the tip with even just an confirmed .002" TIR will shown run out and be visible to the untrained eyes - guaranteed.

0Chuck CoW

My diagnosis was geared towards the guy that DOES NOT own a precision lathe. (your average Vette owner)

Sarcastically yours.
Chuck CoW

All_Motor_C5LS6

victorf

Another thing I didn't made up: "You can fool some people some of the times and........".

----

For those that doesn't own a lathe, doesn't even have to be a precision lathe, you can do the cave man test by rolling a tube/rod/broom handle/drive shaft on a smooth concrete surface to do an rough check on concentricity. Back in the day, things were made by hands with just feel - it still can by those not with their .......

----

dwat8841

My dealer has finally received my second Torque Tube for replacement. Thanks for all of the advice. Since things have been replaced under warranty, I have not sought an aftermarket Tube from Driveshaft or Pfadt. That will be my next option, I guess. The question still persists...what is causing this problem. No one from the dealer or GM is willing to discuss the problem, just replace the part. Where should I be looking? What should I be looking for? Can you say "FRUSTRATING"?

speedraider

dwat8841

Well, the second complete torque tube has been replaced, under warranty. I asked the service manager what was causing the problem. His response..."I wish I knew...GM engineers wish they knew". I asked if he knew the definition of insanity! He looked stumped so I said..it's doing the SAME thing over and over again, expecting different results! Then I told him to make me an appointment in 3 months and left.

ChevyDave

lol i know its not funny, but sometimes laughing will relieve stress. i give you 2 points for your comment!! good luck, hope you dont have to say "Magnuson–Moss Warranty Act" to them in the future

speedraider

looks like I'm gonna have to do the same thing to mine.

0Chuck CoW

Did you get a look at the inside of the torque tube?

And..... you know what was replaced the last 2 times?

It could have been "the entire assembly" including quibos, shaft, tube, bearings, and yokes.....

Or someone tried some "component replacement" and possibly didn't get the problem part or

missed something.....

To have two entire assemblies replaced within 1,100 miles is kinda weird especially given that

it's a low mileage car in the first place with minor mods....

If you or the tech never looked inside the toque tube to see what failed, then you/they could end

up chasing your tails......

I have to say, despite how simple people think the torque tube is, I've had one or two driveline

noises kick my *** over the years....

Give me a ring Friday as I've got a few ideas for you that might help you and the dealer get it right.

Call any time.
Chuck CoW

starkynuke

Gentlemen, I appreciate all the inputs and posts. It's made my new situation a little less annoying. I just finished installing a Centerforce clutch/flywheel, GM slave assembly, and new pilot bearing because the dealer told me that the throwout bearing was bad and it needed a new clutch (that solid advice was after 2 days of them having no clue what the noise was so I'm guessing it was just a shotgun approach ). Now that it's all done and back together, the noise is still there...albeit just a bit different now. Our local club mechanic at Flatout Motorworx has told me that he's thinking it's the torque tube bearings.

What are my options as far as that goes? Is there a rebuild kit? Where can I just buy the bearings to press in? I'm all for getting this done, but with a track even next weekend, I need to get on it ASAP. Dealer quoted me $1400 for a new torque tube.

Finally, what is the impact of driving with worn/damaged torque tube bearings?