** New Product C6 Ram Air Kit available from Top Flight Reproductions **
05-11-2013, 07:50 AM
#41
Drifting
My .02. This is to help the vendor who I have zero dealings. Explain to these folks why the back of our cars get so much more dirtier? It all has to do with PRESSURE. .........I think
05-15-2013, 06:21 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
05-15-2013, 02:10 PM
#43
Burning Brakes
The back of the car gets dirty because there is no air flow... Not because its being forced onto the back.
Sorry, Still not sold on the RAM AIR thing... I say drop the "RAM AIR" part of the argument and just push the fact that its a good "COLD AIR" intake... Anyone who understands air flow will never be convinced that this intake has anything to do with RAM AIR. Sorry.
But It does look like a decent "COLD AIR INTAKE" intake. I have nothing bad to say for that fact... I just think the choice of marketing words to describe it are very misleading.
SPEED SAFE, AIR RAM
Last edited by AIR_RAM; 05-15-2013 at 02:14 PM.
05-29-2013, 06:27 AM
#45
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
OK, this is what I know at this point about the top flight CAI system. I have no independent data from a installed system but I have inspected one and taken some measurements.
The filter area is the largest of the three aftermarket CAI's I have now seen. The filter material is a reinforced pleated design (I assume a cotton weave like a K&N). The filter area (measured by the filter media size inside the filter frame) is 2 1/2 times larger than a stock LS3 filter. It is 28% larger than my Breathless Performance CAI filter and 30% larger than my Vararam filter.
The CAI design does not obstruct the radiator. The large filter sits in the intake plenum and seals against the intake flange which mounts on the radiator shroud inside the engine bay. The filter intake flange requires cutting an opening in the shroud. The intake flange is fastened to the shroud with 8 speed nuts & screws which are furnished.
The MAF sensor mount is built into the intake plenum like the stock intake plenum. This CAI is designed to fit using the stock accordion boot between the intake plenum and the throttle body. My personal opinion is the manufacturer should offer or include a smooth flexible connector to replace the stock accordion boot. A smooth flexible boot (colors please) looks better and I assume causes less air turbulence in the intake.
The intake plenum fastens to the intake flange using three large recessed interlocking tabs on the front and two large high quality stainless steel clasp fasteners which secure the rear of the plenum to the intake flange. I have to say this is a much better engineered system than my Vararam as far as a tight secure seal around the filter is concerned. My Vararam uses two much smaller clasp fasteners (one on each side). One of these two clasp fasteners on my Vararam has never fit properly and I have to use a piece of duct tape to keep the clasp closed.
Like the Vararam the filter can be changed inside the engine bay by removing the intake plenum. On the Breathless performance CAI you have to change the filter from underneath the car.
The directions that come with the Top Flight CAI (Mfg by SS Ram Air) appear to be concise and complete. They do not reference anything about the need to re-tune the car. Both Vararam and Breathless Performance recommend re-tuning for the best result after installing their systems and I assume this system is no different.
The filter area is the largest of the three aftermarket CAI's I have now seen. The filter material is a reinforced pleated design (I assume a cotton weave like a K&N). The filter area (measured by the filter media size inside the filter frame) is 2 1/2 times larger than a stock LS3 filter. It is 28% larger than my Breathless Performance CAI filter and 30% larger than my Vararam filter.
The CAI design does not obstruct the radiator. The large filter sits in the intake plenum and seals against the intake flange which mounts on the radiator shroud inside the engine bay. The filter intake flange requires cutting an opening in the shroud. The intake flange is fastened to the shroud with 8 speed nuts & screws which are furnished.
The MAF sensor mount is built into the intake plenum like the stock intake plenum. This CAI is designed to fit using the stock accordion boot between the intake plenum and the throttle body. My personal opinion is the manufacturer should offer or include a smooth flexible connector to replace the stock accordion boot. A smooth flexible boot (colors please) looks better and I assume causes less air turbulence in the intake.
The intake plenum fastens to the intake flange using three large recessed interlocking tabs on the front and two large high quality stainless steel clasp fasteners which secure the rear of the plenum to the intake flange. I have to say this is a much better engineered system than my Vararam as far as a tight secure seal around the filter is concerned. My Vararam uses two much smaller clasp fasteners (one on each side). One of these two clasp fasteners on my Vararam has never fit properly and I have to use a piece of duct tape to keep the clasp closed.
Like the Vararam the filter can be changed inside the engine bay by removing the intake plenum. On the Breathless performance CAI you have to change the filter from underneath the car.
The directions that come with the Top Flight CAI (Mfg by SS Ram Air) appear to be concise and complete. They do not reference anything about the need to re-tune the car. Both Vararam and Breathless Performance recommend re-tuning for the best result after installing their systems and I assume this system is no different.
anxiously waiting to see test results
06-16-2013, 08:25 PM
#47
Pro
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Has anyone installed this unit?
Any results from members?
Big question, any codes or surging WITHOUT a tune?
I would love to know what the increase would be on a stock LS3 without a tune as well as not seeing any codes.
Any input from members would be great. I like the looks of the unit BUT if there is surging and/or codes I am not interested.
Any results from members?
Big question, any codes or surging WITHOUT a tune?
I would love to know what the increase would be on a stock LS3 without a tune as well as not seeing any codes.
Any input from members would be great. I like the looks of the unit BUT if there is surging and/or codes I am not interested.
06-17-2013, 02:11 AM
#48
Le Mans Master
I would be curious to hear from aerodynamicists, and fluid dynamics experts who better understand the principals. I wonder where the tubulent air created by open filter setups overwelm the limitations caused by the area of the opening into the engine and its internals.
When air can not stay in long enough and saturate the area of a radiator with cooler air the vehicle overheats, thus I am curious when similar effects become present in air filtration systems.
ps. I run a Vararam system in my car and have been happy with it's performance.
In the past I have run several other CAI in other cars, and although I believe some benefit was there, it was mostly the perception of gain.
When air can not stay in long enough and saturate the area of a radiator with cooler air the vehicle overheats, thus I am curious when similar effects become present in air filtration systems.
ps. I run a Vararam system in my car and have been happy with it's performance.
In the past I have run several other CAI in other cars, and although I believe some benefit was there, it was mostly the perception of gain.
The idea that ram air, whether it be induced by a WS6 type snout or by placing the intake in some other high pressure area, will make more power is silly.
Compressing air via car velocities is just ineffective. A long time ago, I worked out the numbers. I can't remember exactly what the numbers worked out to, but "ram air" at 75mph, under perfect conditions and ignoring the speed of the air going through and etc, worked out to some very very nominal PSI bump. It was something like running 0.02lbs of boost. Take into account real world factors and it's practically zero. I think it worked out to driving on a day when the air was 1 degree cooler. Don't quote me on exact numbers; the moral of the story here is that under the most ideal conditions, it's still ineffective.
35rwhp is a lot of power. That takes a lot of extra air. That means this is one hell of a restriction. The z06, with it's bigger cam and better heads and bigger displacement and bigger valves and better exhaust and etc, etc, etc is about 60 rwhp difference. So the restriction in the intake is so bad that it makes up for half of the difference there?
The real question lingering in my mind is why GM would restrict the intake side. Did they go out of their way to make less power and, in theory, get worst gas mileage? There is no benefit to intake side restrictions, unlike exhaust (noise, emissions, getting cats hot quickly, etc).
It's just really, really hard to believe it's gaining that much power. If the vendor wants, I'm more than happy to buy one on my own dime and take it to a dyno on their dime. I have a 100% bone stock LS3 with 15k miles on it. If I can get even 25rwhp for $500, I'm absolutely thrilled.
06-17-2013, 02:28 AM
#49
Le Mans Master
I couldn't resist. I started doing the math and then found another website that already did it after I was about 75% done with it. 100mph = 0.17psi. that's assuming no pressure loss from the intake tract or other aero factors (huge assumption), etc.
To give you an idea of how minuscule the "ideal" ram air would add, 0.17psi works out to roughly the equivalent of 200ft of altitude, assuming no pressure losses. In the real world, I'd be surprised if it was even 50 ft.
What would be an interesting experiment is putting a vacuum gauge on the intake of a stock engine and then after a CAI is installed. That would tell all the difference in the world.
To give you an idea of how minuscule the "ideal" ram air would add, 0.17psi works out to roughly the equivalent of 200ft of altitude, assuming no pressure losses. In the real world, I'd be surprised if it was even 50 ft.
What would be an interesting experiment is putting a vacuum gauge on the intake of a stock engine and then after a CAI is installed. That would tell all the difference in the world.
Last edited by village idiot; 06-17-2013 at 02:31 AM.
06-30-2013, 11:38 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
C6 Ram Air Kit
Our Ram Air intakes are all about improving airflow to your Corvette's engine. It's just a matter of superior design. Better airflow translates into a noticeable increase in power, acceleration and most importantly...bragging rights.
Any power modifications (i.e., cylinder heads, camshaft, headers, exhaust, programming, etc.) that increases horsepower output demand the higher airflow capacity of the Ram Air intake.
Back it up with test results. Airflow test Results for the C6 Corvette flowed 35% more airflow than the original factory intake system. The chassis dyno tests indicated an increase of 15 rwhp on an otherwise-stock LS2. The C6 Ls3 performance increased by 35 rwhp. All that by installing the Ram Air intake into a stock C6 coupe.
Factory
Ram Air Kit
Click Here to Buy
http://www.topflightrepro.com/corvet...formance.shtml
07-09-2013, 02:46 PM
#54
Instructor
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Sorry but doesn't positive pressure = to boost? Say going 100 mph with a "Ram air kit" adds pressure, what dyno tuner would be able to tune for that? Adding to that the pressure will not always be the same based on which way the wind is blowing as well and all the different speeds and conditions. Could the computer compensate for that much pressure?
This is based on experience of having a direct ram air tube going to my sealed air filter on a MAF equipped engine and if your doing highway speeds and put the car in neutral the engine idle lopes and sometimes dies because of the erratic pressures blowing into the MAF giving it false flow readings.
So that being said at WOT the engine can only suck as much as it's made to take in anyway. So a proper cold air feed is typically good enough and the whole "RAM AIR" thing is just a label because unless it's forced induction such as a turbo or super charger which is tune-able than it's not doing anything but feeding a good amount of cold air...right? Or is it that because the Vette has a MAP sensor as well that it can adjust to those minor changes, which if true I'd be sold on it.
**Sorry if this was already posted in this thread but I didn't feel like reading the whole list of comments.
This is based on experience of having a direct ram air tube going to my sealed air filter on a MAF equipped engine and if your doing highway speeds and put the car in neutral the engine idle lopes and sometimes dies because of the erratic pressures blowing into the MAF giving it false flow readings.
So that being said at WOT the engine can only suck as much as it's made to take in anyway. So a proper cold air feed is typically good enough and the whole "RAM AIR" thing is just a label because unless it's forced induction such as a turbo or super charger which is tune-able than it's not doing anything but feeding a good amount of cold air...right? Or is it that because the Vette has a MAP sensor as well that it can adjust to those minor changes, which if true I'd be sold on it.
**Sorry if this was already posted in this thread but I didn't feel like reading the whole list of comments.
07-21-2013, 07:04 AM
#56
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Ram Air did a YouTube video a month ago and they just finished editing it down. They installed the Ram Air “Hammerhead” intake on a Grand Sport C6 and made +23 rwhp without a tune and with a tune made +54 rwhp.
The weather was 95F / 85% humidity in Houston (not the best for getting big numbers). Again these numbers only show the airflow improvement and not the actual ram air benefit we offer. This was also a completely independent test. Ram Air supplied the intake and installed it, but the dyno, and tuning were done by 510 Race Engineering.
Here is a link to the video:
The weather was 95F / 85% humidity in Houston (not the best for getting big numbers). Again these numbers only show the airflow improvement and not the actual ram air benefit we offer. This was also a completely independent test. Ram Air supplied the intake and installed it, but the dyno, and tuning were done by 510 Race Engineering.
Here is a link to the video:
07-21-2013, 07:04 PM
#58
Race Director
Member Since: Sep 2007
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C6 of Year Finalist (performance mods) 2019
Ram Air did a YouTube video a month ago and they just finished editing it down. They installed the Ram Air “Hammerhead” intake on a Grand Sport C6 and made +23 rwhp without a tune and with a tune made +54 rwhp.
The weather was 95F / 85% humidity in Houston (not the best for getting big numbers). Again these numbers only show the airflow improvement and not the actual ram air benefit we offer. This was also a completely independent test. Ram Air supplied the intake and installed it, but the dyno, and tuning were done by 510 Race Engineering.
Here is a link to the video:
Installing a Ram Air SS on a C6 Z06 Vette - YouTube
The weather was 95F / 85% humidity in Houston (not the best for getting big numbers). Again these numbers only show the airflow improvement and not the actual ram air benefit we offer. This was also a completely independent test. Ram Air supplied the intake and installed it, but the dyno, and tuning were done by 510 Race Engineering.
Here is a link to the video:
Installing a Ram Air SS on a C6 Z06 Vette - YouTube
Most stock Z06 will make 440-450HP, so the heat pulling timing was mostly responsible for the low readings. I sure hope the testing by jstewart doesn't have the same issues that cloud the results.