2nd torque tube and bearing failure
#1
2nd torque tube and bearing failure
I have a 2011 Grand Sport with 30k and will have the 2nd torque tube installed next week since owning the car. I don't race it, burn the tires, and actually haven't even had the car over 95 mph. The only mods are mild to wild, and added Eastwood sound deadener throughout the car. My question is if mild to wild would be having any impact on the bearings failing due to the vibration added. I'd be surprised if that was the cause but I'm wanting to know if anyone out there thinks it's a possibility. I've searched the forum and haven't seen any discussions related to m2w. Any other suggestions to ask the dealer to look into are welcome. I'm frustrated this seems to be recurring. My car is in the shop on average for this problem up to 2 weeks each time. This has been due to parts being ordered and delays in shipping mostly. They always replace the torque tube entirely over bearing replacement. They said the labor to tear it apart to replace the bearings would be more than the assembly just being replaced as a unit.
#3
It can't be m2w causing that right as it doesn't have anything to do with either the torque tube or torque convertor directly, or does it throw the whole system out of a harmonic balance?
#4
Tech Contributor
I wonder if the mounting flanges of your ring gear or torque converter were built slightly out of spec/round. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause this two times in a row.
Is it the forward bearing or rear bearing that goes out?
What are the symptoms when it goes out? Is there vibration even when you got the new tube before the bearing went out?
#5
All the m2w does is open the fuse and open your exhaust flaps. No way it could be affecting your torque tube.
I wonder if the mounting flanges of your ring gear or torque converter were built slightly out of spec/round. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause this two times in a row.
Is it the forward bearing or rear bearing that goes out?
What are the symptoms when it goes out? Is there vibration even when you got the new tube before the bearing went out?
I wonder if the mounting flanges of your ring gear or torque converter were built slightly out of spec/round. That's the only thing I can think of that would cause this two times in a row.
Is it the forward bearing or rear bearing that goes out?
What are the symptoms when it goes out? Is there vibration even when you got the new tube before the bearing went out?
#6
Intermediate
Can't be M2W or any other non-drive train related vibration. Something is out of balance or missaligned. I would make sure that the torque tube is being replaced and not just the bearings.
#8
Wouldn't the entire assembly also include a new drive shaft?
I will have to ask them and make sure... Thank you
#9
Mild to Wild would not effect it at all. The Torq tubes are not that difficult to tear apart. They also make aftermarket bushings that are normally the culprit. I would def let them tear it apart to see what is failing and go from there. Is this the dealer or independent shop??
#10
Team Owner
I believe they are asking for the entire assembly as the first order was only the tube with nothing in it. That was the reason for the delay in getting my car.
Wouldn't the entire assembly also include a new drive shaft?
I will have to ask them and make sure... Thank you
Wouldn't the entire assembly also include a new drive shaft?
I will have to ask them and make sure... Thank you
I'm not familiar with how those parts work. I would think they could order a tube with or without the shaft.
#11
I was asked what indicated I had this problem.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
#12
Race Director
I would ABSOLUTELY make sure they show you the shaft they pull out of your Vette when you pick it up. Make sure they replaced the shaft and not just the tube and bearings. You have an imbalance somewhere and the best place to start looking is that shaft inside the tube.
#13
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Deerfield Beach Florida
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
torque tube problem
i own a 2009 base corvette with the A6 automatic. i wasn't satisfied with the performance ie. 430 hp...it felt like a lucky to reach 300hp. i had it tuned and installed a cam and 3.42 gears. Chuck cow did a fantastic job, the car was transformed to a rocket. i took it to the track to see what my time slips would be, after the third pass i felt a vibration and stopped. it (the vibration) got progressively worse. find out the propeller shaft which is inside the torque tube was twisted. it required replacing the entire assembly. the torque tube itself is just a housing with no moving parts....the propeller shaft is a driveshaft that if out of balance will cause vibrations and the scraping noises you describe. on either end of the propeller shaft are two rubber and braided material that replaces what used to be universal joints, these also can fail.to replace the torque tube only is about as stupid a procedure i can imagine. it is the moving parts inside that matters. the original propeller shaft is supposed to be capable of handling up to 1100 hp. my car was nowhere near that and failed. hope this helps to clarify your situation.
jerry
jerry
#14
Team Owner
I was asked what indicated I had this problem.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1582774982-post9.html
#15
Former Vendor
Member Since: Nov 2005
Location: Ossining New York
Posts: 11,792
Received 243 Likes
on
183 Posts
St. Jude Donor '07-'08-'09-'10-'12-'13-'14
Thank you guys!
i own a 2009 base corvette with the A6 automatic. i wasn't satisfied with the performance ie. 430 hp...it felt like a lucky to reach 300hp. i had it tuned and installed a cam and 3.42 gears. Chuck cow did a fantastic job, the car was transformed to a rocket. i took it to the track to see what my time slips would be, after the third pass i felt a vibration and stopped. it (the vibration) got progressively worse. find out the propeller shaft which is inside the torque tube was twisted. it required replacing the entire assembly. the torque tube itself is just a housing with no moving parts....the propeller shaft is a driveshaft that if out of balance will cause vibrations and the scraping noises you describe. on either end of the propeller shaft are two rubber and braided material that replaces what used to be universal joints, these also can fail.to replace the torque tube only is about as stupid a procedure i can imagine. it is the moving parts inside that matters. the original propeller shaft is supposed to be capable of handling up to 1100 hp. my car was nowhere near that and failed. hope this helps to clarify your situation.
jerry
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsbryant View Post
I was asked what indicated I had this problem.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
Here's more on the subject from Chuck CoW:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1582774982-post9.html
jerry
--------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote:
Originally Posted by gsbryant View Post
I was asked what indicated I had this problem.
Best way to describe it is your car will begin to sound like a Model T and have metallic scraping and knocking noises which are consistent with the engine speed. Mostly you hear them near a wall like a drive through, but you can also feel it when at idle or braking. It is a separate sound from the injector tick and louder. The problem can be induced more prevalently according to the dealer power braking.
Here's more on the subject from Chuck CoW:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1582774982-post9.html
Thank you guys.
Yes, these torque tubes and isolators (guibos) do go bad. Typically, the outer housing or "complete torque tube" does not need replacing
provided the inner shaft has not caused major damage inside the other
when it fails.
Both shaft and guibos need to be replaced at the same time and a shaft that "looks" straight usually is NOT.
A "SLIGHT" bend will turn intro a noise making monster if you try to reuse a shaft that's no good.
A complete housing (and tube) replacement at the dealer an covers more problems with one part, but regardless you need
someone familiar with how these work or you'll end up wit the same problem time after time.
Don't feel foolish having to ask for help a second time....I've seen a few cars bite my hand more than once!
Fix it right the first time.
Chuck CoW
#16
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Deerfield Beach Florida
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
jerry
#18
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Deerfield Beach Florida
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have a 2011 Grand Sport with 30k and will have the 2nd torque tube installed next week since owning the car. I don't race it, burn the tires, and actually haven't even had the car over 95 mph. The only mods are mild to wild, and added Eastwood sound deadener throughout the car. My question is if mild to wild would be having any impact on the bearings failing due to the vibration added. I'd be surprised if that was the cause but I'm wanting to know if anyone out there thinks it's a possibility. I've searched the forum and haven't seen any discussions related to m2w. Any other suggestions to ask the dealer to look into are welcome. I'm frustrated this seems to be recurring. My car is in the shop on average for this problem up to 2 weeks each time. This has been due to parts being ordered and delays in shipping mostly. They always replace the torque tube entirely over bearing replacement. They said the labor to tear it apart to replace the bearings would be more than the assembly just being replaced as a unit.
jerry
#19
Instructor
Member Since: Jan 2010
Location: Deerfield Beach Florida
Posts: 157
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you guys.
Yes, these torque tubes and isolators (guibos) do go bad. Typically, the outer housing or "complete torque tube" does not need replacing
provided the inner shaft has not caused major damage inside the other
when it fails.
Both shaft and guibos need to be replaced at the same time and a shaft that "looks" straight usually is NOT.
A "SLIGHT" bend will turn intro a noise making monster if you try to reuse a shaft that's no good.
A complete housing (and tube) replacement at the dealer an covers more problems with one part, but regardless you need
someone familiar with how these work or you'll end up wit the same problem time after time.
Don't feel foolish having to ask for help a second time....I've seen a few cars bite my hand more than once!
Fix it right the first time.
Chuck CoW
Yes, these torque tubes and isolators (guibos) do go bad. Typically, the outer housing or "complete torque tube" does not need replacing
provided the inner shaft has not caused major damage inside the other
when it fails.
Both shaft and guibos need to be replaced at the same time and a shaft that "looks" straight usually is NOT.
A "SLIGHT" bend will turn intro a noise making monster if you try to reuse a shaft that's no good.
A complete housing (and tube) replacement at the dealer an covers more problems with one part, but regardless you need
someone familiar with how these work or you'll end up wit the same problem time after time.
Don't feel foolish having to ask for help a second time....I've seen a few cars bite my hand more than once!
Fix it right the first time.
Chuck CoW
#20
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
Posts: 32,736
Received 2,180 Likes
on
1,583 Posts
CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
Heres a text book example of a shaft that exceeded its RPM limit (OVER REV)
Gublios:
Believe it or not, I reused this prop shaft and I have ZERO issues with the drive train on my 02 ZO6.
BC
Gublios:
Believe it or not, I reused this prop shaft and I have ZERO issues with the drive train on my 02 ZO6.
BC