lowering on stock bolts traction issue
10-22-2013, 12:48 AM
#41
Burning Brakes
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Since you have clearly never seen underneath your car, this is what the spring and bolt look like. By screwing bolt further into the spring, the control arm sits closer. Having ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on spring compression.
10-22-2013, 12:57 AM
#42
Le Mans Master
Since you have clearly never seen underneath your car, this is what the spring and bolt look like. By screwing bolt further into the spring, the control arm sits closer. Having ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on spring compression.
Attachment 47741874
Attachment 47741874
10-22-2013, 08:37 AM
#43
Before beginning, I'll proceed with the most simple explanations I can keeping in mind this is the person I'm dealing with:
The link you provided applies to the front and rear suspensions as you want both to extend...the front to allow weight to transfer to the rear and the rear to plant the tires. Lowering the Corvette on any spring doesn't compress the spring. All linear springs have a spring constant with the equation F=kx governing the force vs compression relationship. If all you have is the weight of the car on the spring, please tell us how the spring is compressed more by "adjusting" the bolt. You are only changing the relationship of the spring relative to the control arm...study the picture provided in the post above and you might see it. I recommend removing your cranium from your **** cavity first so your reasoning won't be clouded by crap. Think about when you adjust the height of the front of your refrigerator to make the door close properly...are you compressing a spring there???
Shocks have a gas charge on the fluid and the pressure is the same on both sides of the piston...Pascal's law dictates that. The side of the piston where the rod attaches has less area than the other side of the piston. Since the force on each side of the piston is given by F=PSI*area, the shock is going to extend because the rod side of the piston has less area. The force extending the shock remains almost constant from full extension to full compression because the gas pressure remains almost constant.
The bolded offers a lot of clues as to why your brain is so addled. Even my cat is becoming affected to the point of begging...
Your reading comprehension kills me. That point is in regards to front suspension and doesn't mean you can just lower the rear on a stock spring. When you lower the vette on stock bolts you compress the spring. When you compress the spring it has more energy in it. When it has more energy in it then it pushes equally up and down and you I dunno if you got the memo or not but you can push your car up a lot easier than you can push the earth down. Also when the shock compress it wants to rebound aka extend more readily. So what you would effectively be doing is unloading the rear between shifts and unable to compress the rear and weight transfer the rear as easily. Argue all you want but no lowered on stock bolts vette 60' better than stock. Now if you had said you wanted to get a shorter spring and a shock with the proper dampening then yes you can lower a vette and still hook.
Shocks have a gas charge on the fluid and the pressure is the same on both sides of the piston...Pascal's law dictates that. The side of the piston where the rod attaches has less area than the other side of the piston. Since the force on each side of the piston is given by F=PSI*area, the shock is going to extend because the rod side of the piston has less area. The force extending the shock remains almost constant from full extension to full compression because the gas pressure remains almost constant.
10-22-2013, 09:57 AM
#45
Awesome launch ShaneFap, thanks for posting how well a lowered Corvette does. I can see there is next to zero squat in the rear and there's light under the left front tire. So much for lowered C6's won't launch...once again, the track proves theory. 
10-22-2013, 10:30 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
Whoa whoa whoa so you are telling me that if I take a container with a set amount of volume and condense it that the pressure doesn't change?!?!?!? Omg how does one do this?!?!?? I want to defy physics!!!!!!
10-22-2013, 10:32 AM
#47
Le Mans Master
10-22-2013, 03:58 PM
#48
http://www.bsb-mfg.com/all_about_shocks.htm
From the link (about halfway down):
"Gas pressure in a shock will increase as the shaft is pushed in, this will increase the amount of rod force that you have in your shock. This amount is small but it is worth knowing so you can understand how that would affect your car."
You should read the whole link since you have a distinct lack of understanding when it comes to how shocks work.
I knew you would focus on that part of my post because it's not common knowledge but having common sense allows one to easily understand why the force doesn't change much. For you, common sense seems to be the least acute of all your senses.
10-22-2013, 04:26 PM
#49
Melting Slicks
So what is the outcome, will the car launch better on street tires (1/4 mile drag at track) if you lower the rear? . how about raising the front a inch to maybe provide more weight transfer on the rear of the car??
10-22-2013, 04:47 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jul 2013
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Glass Slipper is on a whole different level of understanding.
10-22-2013, 07:37 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
I'm going to assume you mean compress and not condense...in either case, you are wrong. First, I didn't say the pressure doesn't change, I said "pressure remains almost constant"...reading is really not your strong suit is it. A shock is not like a cylinder where each side of the piston is sealed from the other and you compress the gas charge, in fact oil is metered from one side of the piston to the other. The gas is in another "chamber" that acts on the fluid to prevent cavitation and the resultant aeration. When the shock piston is cycled from full extension to full rebound, the only volume change is the amount of fluid displaced by the piston rod...not a lot in the overall scheme of things. This small amount of volume change on the gas causes an even smaller change in pressure. This small change in pressure multiplied by the small differential in piston area results in a very small increase in force from full extension to full rebound...like I said, force remains almost constant. If you look at the usual range of motion when the shock is on the car, you might as well say the force is constant.
http://www.bsb-mfg.com/all_about_shocks.htm
From the link (about halfway down):
"Gas pressure in a shock will increase as the shaft is pushed in, this will increase the amount of rod force that you have in your shock. This amount is small but it is worth knowing so you can understand how that would affect your car."
You should read the whole link since you have a distinct lack of understanding when it comes to how shocks work.
I knew you would focus on that part of my post because it's not common knowledge but having common sense allows one to easily understand why the force doesn't change much. For you, common sense seems to be the least acute of all your senses.
http://www.bsb-mfg.com/all_about_shocks.htm
From the link (about halfway down):
"Gas pressure in a shock will increase as the shaft is pushed in, this will increase the amount of rod force that you have in your shock. This amount is small but it is worth knowing so you can understand how that would affect your car."
You should read the whole link since you have a distinct lack of understanding when it comes to how shocks work.
I knew you would focus on that part of my post because it's not common knowledge but having common sense allows one to easily understand why the force doesn't change much. For you, common sense seems to be the least acute of all your senses.
My bad I was typing while at work so yes I did mean compress. I was referring to the whole shock and so yes you do alter that volume when you lower the car. You can't magically lower volume of the shock chamber and not affect rebound rate. Anyone with magnetic ride can testify that when you put the car into sport mode it will not hook as well. And all we are changing there is dampening force. When you lower a car you effectively do the same thing.
Thats scootin. I figured it was an auto. Have you tried launching it before it was lowered with the same power level?
10-22-2013, 09:27 PM
#54
Burning Brakes
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My bad I was typing while at work so yes I did mean compress. I was referring to the whole shock and so yes you do alter that volume when you lower the car. You can't magically lower volume of the shock chamber and not affect rebound rate. Anyone with magnetic ride can testify that when you put the car into sport mode it will not hook as well. And all we are changing there is dampening force. When you lower a car you effectively do the same thing.
Thats scootin. I figured it was an auto. Have you tried launching it before it was lowered with the same power level?
QFT.
10-22-2013, 10:44 PM
#55
Tech Contributor
My car is lowered with cut bushings on the rear and front lowered all the way down and has been since 2006.
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
10-22-2013, 11:35 PM
#56
Le Mans Master
My car is lowered with cut bushings on the rear and front lowered all the way down and has been since 2006.
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
http://youtu.be/Izv6GEmL9Vc
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
http://youtu.be/MyufsJIqa9I
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
http://youtu.be/Izv6GEmL9Vc
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
http://youtu.be/MyufsJIqa9I
Isn't your car an auto Joe?
10-23-2013, 05:56 AM
#58
Tech Contributor
10-23-2013, 07:22 AM
#59
Le Mans Master
10-23-2013, 03:56 PM
#60
My bad I was typing while at work so yes I did mean compress. I was referring to the whole shock and so yes you do alter that volume when you lower the car. You can't magically lower volume of the shock chamber and not affect rebound rate. Anyone with magnetic ride can testify that when you put the car into sport mode it will not hook as well. And all we are changing there is dampening force. When you lower a car you effectively do the same thing.
