lowering on stock bolts traction issue
10-23-2013, 04:04 PM
#61
My car is lowered with cut bushings on the rear and front lowered all the way down and has been since 2006.
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
I get 1.4's at will and have 497 passes on this car.
I also have never had it aligned: My Invos with 31000 miles on them, they are still going strong.
OP lower your car. It won't hurt traction.
Here's a recent pretty hard launch.
Say I haven't looked at that in a while....did I pull a wheelie?
Here's the in car on that run. You can see where I launch at.
10-23-2013, 04:56 PM
#62
Tech Contributor
Glass is right though. Real drag racers buy Caltracs and other items that throw the car's weight onto the rear tires by relocating the angles he discusses. They really work and work well. My Hurst/Olds had similar replacement lower control arm brackets that relocated the lower control arms to a lower mounting point under the axle... with some 3.90's... and when you lit into that car the whole rear lifted up like an old Gasser with Caltracs.
There is a lot of ET in the suspension on the car - GM did a great job with the Vette and I got lucky with a magic clutch.
10-23-2013, 05:07 PM
#64
Tech Contributor
I haven't been to the track in a while...I miss our Challenge series and the camaraderie. And I have come to realize that at some point something is going to have to break on my car....so I should stop beating on it all the time.
Here are the slips from my last event. I'm car 2182
I kept going back to get below 10.81...on the last run (which you see in video above) I leaned the car out. launched high, and revved it to 7k (as you can see) in my effort to get a 10.7x slip. Unfortunately, I leaned it just a tad too much and lost power.
I then realized that I was doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result....and we all know that statement defines!
Looks like Joe G has a 10.8 car.
Post more Glass. I always enjoy your posts immensely.
p.s. I'm not on here so much either, I bought a Prius to commute (they ride free in express lanes, $4/day or $30/day in the truck), got the 600 mile tank which is the equivalent of a 10 second slip on Priuschat. But that was about all I could do with that car so....for some reason I needed to balance that practicality with this...
Been hanging on HDforum. Though I seem to fit in better over here. Nice folks on Corvetteforum.
10-23-2013, 05:10 PM
#65
Tech Contributor
With stock tires it's like ice skating on sneakers. Nothing you do is going to matter much as you have the wrong tools for the job. To the extent lowering helps a little with DR's it'll help with stock too, but you won't notice it as they are so poor on the track compared to DR's.
Removing the front swaybar doesn't do much at all, it might provide just a bit more traction on a slippery track. Bracket guys often do it. 90-10 front shocks would do more.
10-23-2013, 05:54 PM
#66
Melting Slicks
Glass will answer (I hope) but I'll give my 2c since I happen to be on right now.
With stock tires it's like ice skating on sneakers. Nothing you do is going to matter much as you have the wrong tools for the job. To the extent lowering helps a little with DR's it'll help with stock too, but you won't notice it as they are so poor on the track compared to DR's.
Removing the front swaybar doesn't do much at all, it might provide just a bit more traction on a slippery track. Bracket guys often do it. 90-10 front shocks would do more.
With stock tires it's like ice skating on sneakers. Nothing you do is going to matter much as you have the wrong tools for the job. To the extent lowering helps a little with DR's it'll help with stock too, but you won't notice it as they are so poor on the track compared to DR's.
Removing the front swaybar doesn't do much at all, it might provide just a bit more traction on a slippery track. Bracket guys often do it. 90-10 front shocks would do more.
10-23-2013, 07:01 PM
#67
Tech Contributor
Thanks Joe, I am just tweaking to make sure I get at least a 1.9 60 ft time with OE tires. I know removeing the front sway bar helps with weight transfer and also realize the stickier the tire the more these things work. I have a 2013 662 hp gt500 Mustang guy challenging me to a 1/4 mile run, both of us will run the OE tire and no mods
Check out this website, it got me started years ago. You cannot launch like I do with street tires, but the avoidance of spin, and to the extent you can, bog, is key for either of us.
www.rangeracceleration.com
Pay particular attention also to the clutch care section there. You don't want an embarrassing situation where your clutch pedal sticks to the floor after the 1-2 shift...you'll lose badly. if fluid maintenance doesn't do it, remove your pedal spring. I've removed a dozen at the track for people. I literally carry a thin flat screwdriver in my cubby for this express purpose. it works if the fluid doesn't in every case I've seen.
Again, my advice is to practice all of this before your event. In this game, practice really makes perfect. My first 60's were 2.2-2.3! 600 passes in a Vette later I can do better. That website above will shorten the learning curve for you, it's very helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
10-23-2013, 07:22 PM
#68
Melting Slicks
I would advise you to take some time and practice the launch before you change anything.
Check out this website, it got me started years ago. You cannot launch like I do with street tires, but the avoidance of spin, and to the extent you can, bog, is key for either of us.
www.rangeracceleration.com
Pay particular attention also to the clutch care section there. You don't want an embarrassing situation where your clutch pedal sticks to the floor after the 1-2 shift...you'll lose badly. if fluid maintenance doesn't do it, remove your pedal spring. I've removed a dozen at the track for people. I literally carry a thin flat screwdriver in my cubby for this express purpose. it works if the fluid doesn't in every case I've seen.
Again, my advice is to practice all of this before your event. In this game, practice really makes perfect. My first 60's were 2.2-2.3! 600 passes in a Vette later I can do better. That website above will shorten the learning curve for you, it's very helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Check out this website, it got me started years ago. You cannot launch like I do with street tires, but the avoidance of spin, and to the extent you can, bog, is key for either of us.
www.rangeracceleration.com
Pay particular attention also to the clutch care section there. You don't want an embarrassing situation where your clutch pedal sticks to the floor after the 1-2 shift...you'll lose badly. if fluid maintenance doesn't do it, remove your pedal spring. I've removed a dozen at the track for people. I literally carry a thin flat screwdriver in my cubby for this express purpose. it works if the fluid doesn't in every case I've seen.
Again, my advice is to practice all of this before your event. In this game, practice really makes perfect. My first 60's were 2.2-2.3! 600 passes in a Vette later I can do better. That website above will shorten the learning curve for you, it's very helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
10-23-2013, 07:46 PM
#69
Tech Contributor
I assume your talking about the clutch pedal spring under the dash, can I just remove it and leave it off??. Its amazing your talking about the clutch, I bought this car from a private owner @ corvettes of carlisle this august, first thing I noticed was a very soft clutch pedal, almost no effort to push in. After putting some miles on the car, I sensed slippage at WOT and finally did a WOT pull in 4th gear @ 65mph. It pulled hard for a short while and then revved up blowing right thru the clutch. Car drove perfect when driving sane. Clutch fluid was clear. I decided to replace the clutch with a level 2 monster clutch. The oe disc was perfect, no clutch material on the Slave, this car was never driven hard till I got it. I can only assume the OE luk pressure plate was bad. My pedal is much harder to push in now, but still very nice to drive. I have to break in this clutch in the spring
Yes you can remove the over center pedal spring, but it is an assist spring and will thus make the pedal even harder for you. You don't need to remove it with your clutch.
I hesitate to tell you this, but your clutch is likely very grabby on/off I'm guessing? Launching cleanly with no spin and street tires is going to be a challenge. And we know spinnin ain't winnin.
My comment about practice stands...get out there and learn the car. It's VERY rewarding to learn how to drive your own car instead of spending money to go faster. I get a lot of pleasure out of whooping big hp guys because I can drive.
10-25-2013, 01:43 AM
#70
Regardless of the suspension setup I don't see how it's physically possible for the car to weight transfer just as good with a lower center of gravity. I'm no expert it just doesn't make sense to me.
12-12-2013, 10:32 AM
#71
Lowering a C5/C6 gives you more anti-squat which helps plant the tires and not unload, regardless of the tire.
Yes you can have too much anti-squat.
Weight transfer is not as much as people think it is and the change in CG lowering a car 1" wont do much.
Oh and for the record, when you make the spring go closer to the control arm you are compressing it. It does not change spring rate but it changes pre-load on the suspension. This is because the spring and control arm have different pivot points (plus its a dam leaf spring) so the spring has to flex to get closer to the arm.
Carry on.
Yes you can have too much anti-squat.
Weight transfer is not as much as people think it is and the change in CG lowering a car 1" wont do much.
Oh and for the record, when you make the spring go closer to the control arm you are compressing it. It does not change spring rate but it changes pre-load on the suspension. This is because the spring and control arm have different pivot points (plus its a dam leaf spring) so the spring has to flex to get closer to the arm.
Carry on.
12-14-2013, 05:26 AM
#72
Since you have clearly never seen underneath your car, this is what the spring and bolt look like. By screwing bolt further into the spring, the control arm sits closer. Having ABSOLUTELY NO EFFECT on spring compression.
Attachment 47741874
Attachment 47741874
This is a fact. My car is lowered on stock bolts and this does not compress the leaf spring. Sounds like you are thinking about conventional coil springs.
10-19-2014, 02:03 PM
#74
Melting Slicks
I would advise you to take some time and practice the launch before you change anything.
Check out this website, it got me started years ago. You cannot launch like I do with street tires, but the avoidance of spin, and to the extent you can, bog, is key for either of us.
www.rangeracceleration.com
Pay particular attention also to the clutch care section there. You don't want an embarrassing situation where your clutch pedal sticks to the floor after the 1-2 shift...you'll lose badly. if fluid maintenance doesn't do it, remove your pedal spring. I've removed a dozen at the track for people. I literally carry a thin flat screwdriver in my cubby for this express purpose. it works if the fluid doesn't in every case I've seen.
Again, my advice is to practice all of this before your event. In this game, practice really makes perfect. My first 60's were 2.2-2.3! 600 passes in a Vette later I can do better. That website above will shorten the learning curve for you, it's very helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
Check out this website, it got me started years ago. You cannot launch like I do with street tires, but the avoidance of spin, and to the extent you can, bog, is key for either of us.
www.rangeracceleration.com
Pay particular attention also to the clutch care section there. You don't want an embarrassing situation where your clutch pedal sticks to the floor after the 1-2 shift...you'll lose badly. if fluid maintenance doesn't do it, remove your pedal spring. I've removed a dozen at the track for people. I literally carry a thin flat screwdriver in my cubby for this express purpose. it works if the fluid doesn't in every case I've seen.
Again, my advice is to practice all of this before your event. In this game, practice really makes perfect. My first 60's were 2.2-2.3! 600 passes in a Vette later I can do better. That website above will shorten the learning curve for you, it's very helpful.
Good luck and keep us posted.
3 weeks later much cooler and good 7000 rpm shifts, 11.5 125mph and a 1.88 60 ft both time with full tank fuel for rear weight
10-19-2014, 02:37 PM
#75
Tech Contributor
Finally made 3 passes 2 different days, 1st day very hot and humid, but was working on warm tires and warm track for traction, 2 passes that day, 12.0 and 11.8 with a 2.00 60ft time on the 2nd pass with 120 mph.
3 weeks later much cooler and good 7000 rpm shifts, 11.5 125mph and a 1.88 60 ft both time with full tank fuel for rear weight
3 weeks later much cooler and good 7000 rpm shifts, 11.5 125mph and a 1.88 60 ft both time with full tank fuel for rear weight
For some cheap ET, take out your passenger seat for .05, and if you get skinnies for the front that's .1 easy.
10-19-2014, 07:58 PM
#76
Melting Slicks
If you lower the rear, you are removing weight over the rear tires as well as changing the 'rake' of the car. think of it as a table, if you put a shim under one leg, there is more weight on it because the other legs are either off the ground or are barely touching, but the diagonal leg increases at the same rate. An alignment is recommended, but barely affected by lowering such a small amount.
10-20-2014, 07:22 PM
#78
Race Director
If you lower the rear, you are removing weight over the rear tires as well as changing the 'rake' of the car. think of it as a table, if you put a shim under one leg, there is more weight on it because the other legs are either off the ground or are barely touching, but the diagonal leg increases at the same rate. An alignment is recommended, but barely affected by lowering such a small amount.
If you lower the rear you ADD weight to the rear tires and remove it from the front. Try reading up on cornerweighting.
Any adjustment in suspension measurements requires an alignment. Unless you like to buy lots of tires @ $400 each.
10-20-2014, 07:53 PM
#79
Tech Contributor
I lowered my car 8 years ago by cutting the stock rear bushings.
I have never aligned it since factory.
I got 24k out of the stock tires, sold the second set with 20k miles and plenty of tread and have 33k miles on my Nitto Invos with plenty of tread.
So in my experience you don't have to align. Frankly I've had better luck with factory alignments than the ones you get at local shops.
I have never aligned it since factory.
I got 24k out of the stock tires, sold the second set with 20k miles and plenty of tread and have 33k miles on my Nitto Invos with plenty of tread.
So in my experience you don't have to align. Frankly I've had better luck with factory alignments than the ones you get at local shops.
10-20-2014, 07:55 PM
#80
Tech Contributor
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Lowering the car will give you SLIGHT negative camber, but you will need an alignment anyway. You won't notice a difference.
And there is NO change in ride quality after lowering. You are not changing the spring or the spring rate. You are only bringing the control arm closer to the spring. Anyone who says different is experiencing placebo effect.
And there is NO change in ride quality after lowering. You are not changing the spring or the spring rate. You are only bringing the control arm closer to the spring. Anyone who says different is experiencing placebo effect.
Bill