Yet another C6 fuel pump removal story
07-03-2015, 06:47 PM
#81
Also just in case I didn't put it somewhere, I think its very important that the C-clamp be removed from the vehicle while you are compressing/decompressing the crossover tube. It just gets in the way and can make things much more difficult. It can be installed and removed with the crossover tube fully installed. It has a 10mm nut and there is a small tube that clips into it which needs to be popped out.
So as far as a compression/decompression tool, and where it would be useful:
-compression for removal of tube the first time (since its probably stuck and alot harder to remove than usual)
-compression and decompression for install into final tank
although both of the above can be done without a tool, as is well know, things break and its extremely difficult. I didn't get to enjoy the benefit of the tool on either because on the first one, I didnt have the tool made yet. And on the second one, I wasn't sure if the internal lines were seating correctly (they were), so I chose not to use it. But next time I would and I wouldn' t have purple arms and things would have been done alot faster.
Also, its not clear what the situation is with automatic trannies. I'm not the first person to make a tool (there is another thread here somewhere where someone did). I wonder if they made the tool to do this job on an automatic? Maybe its impossible to do an automatic by hand. I dunno.
So as far as a compression/decompression tool, and where it would be useful:
-compression for removal of tube the first time (since its probably stuck and alot harder to remove than usual)
-compression and decompression for install into final tank
although both of the above can be done without a tool, as is well know, things break and its extremely difficult. I didn't get to enjoy the benefit of the tool on either because on the first one, I didnt have the tool made yet. And on the second one, I wasn't sure if the internal lines were seating correctly (they were), so I chose not to use it. But next time I would and I wouldn' t have purple arms and things would have been done alot faster.
Also, its not clear what the situation is with automatic trannies. I'm not the first person to make a tool (there is another thread here somewhere where someone did). I wonder if they made the tool to do this job on an automatic? Maybe its impossible to do an automatic by hand. I dunno.
07-03-2015, 06:49 PM
#82
Also, I finally got my fuel pump module installed into the drivers side tank today. Be very careful how you route the lines inside the tank as one of mine was obstructing the motion of the fuel sender float and it's a good thing I caught it or else I'd be dropping the tank again later on once I went to test it all and this problem went unnoticed. I used a USB borescope to inspect everything once it was all installed and that's how I noticed the problem and also confirmed it was corrected once I pulled everything out and rerouted the lines.
Now to install the tank in car...
How did you do the tube that goes into the basket? Did you put the clip on it then snap the clip into the pump when it was in position? Apparently thats easier than what I did, which was route the tube through the clip.
I got both tanks in place pretty easily. I made detailed notes in a previous post. Hope it helps!
Please share more of your process. Its very interesting to hear!
07-03-2015, 07:42 PM
#83
USB borescope was just a random one off Amazon, nothing special. It can record videos and take photos like 5mp I think. Around $30.
For the lines that you have to install and hookup before lowering the basket into place. It wasn't too bad once I figured out how to correctly maneuver them. I used a rubber band and wrapped that a few times around both lines and then a piece of wire tied onto that and routed out of the main hole in the gas tank. Lower the basket and pull the lines up. Connect the line with the plastic push type fitting first, then I'd cut the rubber band and push the other line into the plastic clip attached to the bucket and done. Carefully lower it back in.
I got everything back in no issues. I too removed the c-clamp that holds the crossover tube in place and that helped probably 1000x with bending the crossover tube up. It literally took me less than 2 minutes to get the tank up and installed with the crossover tube using that method. The crossover tube was like magnetized into the gas tank it was so easy. Then I wiggled it back and forth left right up down a few times and boom I was able to turn the locking collar and snap the black plastic tab into place.
For readers who've yet to do this. I'm betting removing the c-clamp during removal of the crossover tube would help immensely. It gives you a lot more up and down room to maneuver the tube and pull up. Best method I found was bear hugging the trans feet towards the front of the car. Push up with your right hand and pull down and out with your left hand and it should come out without too much hassle. Of course the internal lines are another story, and I wish you luck that your's aren't as corroded and stuck together as mine were.
For the lines that you have to install and hookup before lowering the basket into place. It wasn't too bad once I figured out how to correctly maneuver them. I used a rubber band and wrapped that a few times around both lines and then a piece of wire tied onto that and routed out of the main hole in the gas tank. Lower the basket and pull the lines up. Connect the line with the plastic push type fitting first, then I'd cut the rubber band and push the other line into the plastic clip attached to the bucket and done. Carefully lower it back in.
I got everything back in no issues. I too removed the c-clamp that holds the crossover tube in place and that helped probably 1000x with bending the crossover tube up. It literally took me less than 2 minutes to get the tank up and installed with the crossover tube using that method. The crossover tube was like magnetized into the gas tank it was so easy. Then I wiggled it back and forth left right up down a few times and boom I was able to turn the locking collar and snap the black plastic tab into place.
For readers who've yet to do this. I'm betting removing the c-clamp during removal of the crossover tube would help immensely. It gives you a lot more up and down room to maneuver the tube and pull up. Best method I found was bear hugging the trans feet towards the front of the car. Push up with your right hand and pull down and out with your left hand and it should come out without too much hassle. Of course the internal lines are another story, and I wish you luck that your's aren't as corroded and stuck together as mine were.
Last edited by djfury05; 07-03-2015 at 07:47 PM.
07-03-2015, 09:39 PM
#84
USB borescope was just a random one off Amazon, nothing special. It can record videos and take photos like 5mp I think. Around $30.
For the lines that you have to install and hookup before lowering the basket into place. It wasn't too bad once I figured out how to correctly maneuver them. I used a rubber band and wrapped that a few times around both lines and then a piece of wire tied onto that and routed out of the main hole in the gas tank. Lower the basket and pull the lines up. Connect the line with the plastic push type fitting first, then I'd cut the rubber band and push the other line into the plastic clip attached to the bucket and done. Carefully lower it back in.
I got everything back in no issues. I too removed the c-clamp that holds the crossover tube in place and that helped probably 1000x with bending the crossover tube up. It literally took me less than 2 minutes to get the tank up and installed with the crossover tube using that method. The crossover tube was like magnetized into the gas tank it was so easy. Then I wiggled it back and forth left right up down a few times and boom I was able to turn the locking collar and snap the black plastic tab into place.
For readers who've yet to do this. I'm betting removing the c-clamp during removal of the crossover tube would help immensely. It gives you a lot more up and down room to maneuver the tube and pull up. Best method I found was bear hugging the trans feet towards the front of the car. Push up with your right hand and pull down and out with your left hand and it should come out without too much hassle. Of course the internal lines are another story, and I wish you luck that your's aren't as corroded and stuck together as mine were.
For the lines that you have to install and hookup before lowering the basket into place. It wasn't too bad once I figured out how to correctly maneuver them. I used a rubber band and wrapped that a few times around both lines and then a piece of wire tied onto that and routed out of the main hole in the gas tank. Lower the basket and pull the lines up. Connect the line with the plastic push type fitting first, then I'd cut the rubber band and push the other line into the plastic clip attached to the bucket and done. Carefully lower it back in.
I got everything back in no issues. I too removed the c-clamp that holds the crossover tube in place and that helped probably 1000x with bending the crossover tube up. It literally took me less than 2 minutes to get the tank up and installed with the crossover tube using that method. The crossover tube was like magnetized into the gas tank it was so easy. Then I wiggled it back and forth left right up down a few times and boom I was able to turn the locking collar and snap the black plastic tab into place.
For readers who've yet to do this. I'm betting removing the c-clamp during removal of the crossover tube would help immensely. It gives you a lot more up and down room to maneuver the tube and pull up. Best method I found was bear hugging the trans feet towards the front of the car. Push up with your right hand and pull down and out with your left hand and it should come out without too much hassle. Of course the internal lines are another story, and I wish you luck that your's aren't as corroded and stuck together as mine were.
So is your vehicle now up and running?
Russ427, I think you are next! Keep us informed with your progress and make sure to ask for help if you need it.
Anyone else attempting this please join in!
07-03-2015, 09:49 PM
#85
Yes it's up and running. It ran out of gas though. I only had a 2 gallon container and that wasn't enough for testing and getting it up to the gas station. Tomorrow I'll get a full tank and check for issues on the sending units reporting.
Definitely could tell a difference in idle with and without the Kenne Bell boost a pump. That's the whole reason I had to go down this path. A little wiring harness install caused all this to be done.
Definitely could tell a difference in idle with and without the Kenne Bell boost a pump. That's the whole reason I had to go down this path. A little wiring harness install caused all this to be done.
07-03-2015, 10:40 PM
#86
Burning Brakes
Very interesting! I did similar with the tank lines, I used a piece of wire to pull a string through, then tied the string to the lines and pulled them through.
So is your vehicle now up and running?
Russ427, I think you are next! Keep us informed with your progress and make sure to ask for help if you need it.
Anyone else attempting this please join in!
So is your vehicle now up and running?
Russ427, I think you are next! Keep us informed with your progress and make sure to ask for help if you need it.
Anyone else attempting this please join in!
It will still be at least a month before I get to do mine. Im doing it at the dealership I work at so I can use a lift and have access to tools. I cant run the risk of tying up a bay if I run into a problem because the shop is too busy.
07-04-2015, 10:32 AM
#87
It would be nice to know the torque spec for the fuel tank support plates. Any possibility you might have access to that info somehow?
07-04-2015, 10:26 PM
#88
Well now the damn car doesn't want to run. It turns over and tries to fire and dies. Leaving battery on tender overnight and guess we'll see. It ran fine yesterday when I had the exhaust, tank plates, wheels and wheel liners off still. Put it all back together and now it won't run. So sick of this damn car.
07-04-2015, 11:02 PM
#89
Melting Slicks
Auto transmission cars must have tools...
For transfer tube removal auto trannie cars present a different picture cause they just don't allow room to get to the transfer tube so the trans axel must be lowered.
Must have tools;
4- 23 1/2 inch high capable Jack stands.
24" inch lift capacity floor jack-
800 lbs. capacity 24 inch lift transmission jack Harbor Freight prt # 60234 works great.
Lift the car to 23 1/2 all four corners.
if you want to lower the cradle a lot unbolt the intake manifold and move it forward 1/2 inch cause is the first thing to touch the fire wall hence your limits (the screw directly behind the intake on the fire wall) is the first thing to hit.
Must disconnect cold air intake to throttle body tube whether or not you move the intake forward sense when you lower the cradle it will rip the connection.
The procedure of lowering the cradle can be quite dangerous if you are not careful but if you take your time and balance the weight on the jack can be quite fun.
I don't remove the C clamp in the middle of the transfer tube, I just move the tube off of it and let it help me to arch the tube (on removal and install) sense by been there the tube is forced around it, when the transfer tube is back in position I move the transfer tube back in the C clamp.
Must have tools;
4- 23 1/2 inch high capable Jack stands.
24" inch lift capacity floor jack-
800 lbs. capacity 24 inch lift transmission jack Harbor Freight prt # 60234 works great.
Lift the car to 23 1/2 all four corners.
if you want to lower the cradle a lot unbolt the intake manifold and move it forward 1/2 inch cause is the first thing to touch the fire wall hence your limits (the screw directly behind the intake on the fire wall) is the first thing to hit.
Must disconnect cold air intake to throttle body tube whether or not you move the intake forward sense when you lower the cradle it will rip the connection.
The procedure of lowering the cradle can be quite dangerous if you are not careful but if you take your time and balance the weight on the jack can be quite fun.
I don't remove the C clamp in the middle of the transfer tube, I just move the tube off of it and let it help me to arch the tube (on removal and install) sense by been there the tube is forced around it, when the transfer tube is back in position I move the transfer tube back in the C clamp.
The following users liked this post:
Donwuan (06-18-2023)
07-04-2015, 11:29 PM
#90
Well now the damn car doesn't want to run. It turns over and tries to fire and dies. Leaving battery on tender overnight and guess we'll see. It ran fine yesterday when I had the exhaust, tank plates, wheels and wheel liners off still. Put it all back together and now it won't run. So sick of this damn car.
Some thoughts:
-can you hear the pump whine when its turns on if you put the car in accessory? (hold accessory button for like 15 seconds)
-you can inspect all the passenger pump electrical connections from that access panel in the passenger wheel well..maybe something came off?
-can you use your borescope to check the drivers tank electrical connections
-any way you can check pressure at the rail? (never done it on LS3, I have no idea if there is a valve or what)
-did anything funny happen like running out of gas? you mentioned not having enough to reach the gas station. anything weird go on in that whole ordeal? (not sure what...just grasping here)
-I dont have a good enough mental model of the whole system to know what might cause total failure to get fuel to the engine. Could be a bunch of things I think. Hopefully someone else chimes in.
07-05-2015, 01:09 AM
#91
Ugh. Maybe its something simple.
Some thoughts:
-can you hear the pump whine when its turns on if you put the car in accessory? (hold accessory button for like 15 seconds)
Haven't noticed really. I'll try in the morning if it doesn't fire right up.
-you can inspect all the passenger pump electrical connections from that access panel in the passenger wheel well..maybe something came off?
Only thing that could have happened there was the pins on the 5-pin connector came out again but don't think it'd affect running it just wouldn't read the gas level in the tank I'm thinking.
-can you use your borescope to check the drivers tank electrical connections
Yes I will try this there is a little opening in the frame you can insert it into.
-any way you can check pressure at the rail? (never done it on LS3, I have no idea if there is a valve or what)
Yes there is a Schrader valve on drivers side fuel rail. I tried this before starting and gauge only registered 10psi and it ran fine when I started so I chalked it up to a bad gauge. It was a rental.
-did anything funny happen like running out of gas? you mentioned not having enough to reach the gas station. anything weird go on in that whole ordeal? (not sure what...just grasping here)
It is reading over a 1/4 tank of gas now. I went and got 4 more gallons this morning thinking that was the issue.
-I dont have a good enough mental model of the whole system to know what might cause total failure to get fuel to the engine. Could be a bunch of things I think. Hopefully someone else chimes in.
Some thoughts:
-can you hear the pump whine when its turns on if you put the car in accessory? (hold accessory button for like 15 seconds)
Haven't noticed really. I'll try in the morning if it doesn't fire right up.
-you can inspect all the passenger pump electrical connections from that access panel in the passenger wheel well..maybe something came off?
Only thing that could have happened there was the pins on the 5-pin connector came out again but don't think it'd affect running it just wouldn't read the gas level in the tank I'm thinking.
-can you use your borescope to check the drivers tank electrical connections
Yes I will try this there is a little opening in the frame you can insert it into.
-any way you can check pressure at the rail? (never done it on LS3, I have no idea if there is a valve or what)
Yes there is a Schrader valve on drivers side fuel rail. I tried this before starting and gauge only registered 10psi and it ran fine when I started so I chalked it up to a bad gauge. It was a rental.
-did anything funny happen like running out of gas? you mentioned not having enough to reach the gas station. anything weird go on in that whole ordeal? (not sure what...just grasping here)
It is reading over a 1/4 tank of gas now. I went and got 4 more gallons this morning thinking that was the issue.
-I dont have a good enough mental model of the whole system to know what might cause total failure to get fuel to the engine. Could be a bunch of things I think. Hopefully someone else chimes in.
07-05-2015, 01:48 AM
#92
That said, I think there is a key strategy here.
You definitely don't want to pull the tanks out, find nothing wrong, put them back in, and still have the problem. That would be even worse than where you are now. And since the tank procedure definitely has some risk (breaking things, misaligning things, etc..)..the chance that something will actually get messed up by doing it all again goes up.
So I'll brainstorm again. I'm sure I'll repeat some things I already said so humor me please. I'm just thinking out loud here:
I would completely exhaust every diagnostic idea you have without touching your tank install. Leave that for absolute last when you have zero ideas left. Check it for leaks though as best you can just in case somehow thats a clue. Although if the engine is getting zero fuel because of a leak that you can see, its going to be like a garden hose. So I dont see how it would help troubleshoot this, but who knows.
Make sure to check for that pump whine. The pump MUST come on at accessory on (lonnggggg press, so that the gauges all turn on).
If the engine cranks the battery is okay enough to start, run the pump, etc..
See if you can get another gauge. HF makes a gauge for I think $10 that I have and its worked for years for testing fuel pressure via schrader valves.
Hey wait didn't you add some kind of pump or something? That would be a prime candidate for "something odd". Maybe there is something wrong with that aspect?
Is that little voice in your head telling you that it knows whats wrong but you just dont want to think about it? I.e. do you have a suspicion?
Are you absolutely sure that the internal lines were locked into place on the crossover tube ends? Maybe they werent, or it got rotated, and they popped out after a bit. I'm not sure if that can kill fuel pressure if the drivers tank has gas, but I think it might.
If your drivers tank isnt full, then you could still take the crossover tube out and check the internal lines. Not fun though. Still recommend doing that after you have no ideas left.
Which 5 pin connector are you talking about?
Idea: kind of dangerous though. If you have no way to measure fuel pressure for whatever reason, I suppose you could disconnect the fuel output line on the drivers pump (the one that hangs down in a U-shape), and point it into a bucket. Or do the thing in that thread for draining the tank, where you short the relay or whatever and point the fuel-rail line into a bucket. That would at least tell you if there is fuel flow. If you couldnt get your hands on a gauge for some reason.
Did you take out any fuses/relays for some reason?
If you hear the pump whine, but get no fuel pressure or flow, I'd say yep, somethings wrong with the tank install. Or maybe even the pump install.
Last edited by PatientZero; 07-05-2015 at 01:52 AM.
07-05-2015, 10:12 AM
#93
Quick update.. out in the garage as I'm writing this. Pulled the driver rear wheel and fender liner out. All connections appeared to be good. Car didn't start. I disconnected the Racetronix harness and ran it like factory wiring, car started and ran fine. I then ran the Racetronix harness without the boost a pump connected, car started and ran fine. So it's definitely something with the boost a pump causing the issues. Going to try a couple more things yet. Glad the car started up and ran though!
07-05-2015, 10:42 AM
#94
Got it fixed. The power wire was backwards. It was running through the relay and fuse backwards to the fuel pump. Switched positions and started up fine. Everything is well now. I'll keep an eye on it all though just to be sure.
07-05-2015, 07:37 PM
#95
on an unrelated note, in case I forgot to mention it: when I put the crossover tube in, I angled the end down hard with one hand as I pushed up the passenger tank with the other, seemed to make it easier and require less compression (although reading this it sounds like it would be harder)
04-29-2018, 08:48 PM
#97
Melting Slicks
I just stumbled on this thread while searching a different topic.
I removed both tanks on my 2006 auto to replace faulty sending unit(s). Took about a week on and off using a lift.
About a year later fuel leaking out of the drivers tank. No access to lift this time around so I had to do it in my garage. Found out the elbow on the fuel pump unit had cracked just like the pic earlier in this thread. Replaced entire sending unit/pump assembly. Took about one long day.
Disconnecting the crossover tube was easier the 2nd time around understanding how it all works. Also, most of the time the stainless crossover tube will separate and pull back from the tank but the black fuel lines inside will not pull out of the tank. You have to lower the passenger tank and remove the 10mm nut that holds the crossover tube bracket support above the transmission. You won't be able to see it but, it's there you can feel it. Pulling the crossover tube back as far as I could I got a flat blade screwdriver between the tank and crossover tube and pried the fuel lines out. It doesn't take much. There are Orings for each of the two fuel lines that the black plastic fuel lines get caught on. Each time I used just a little petroleum jelly on the O-rings to help when putting it back together.
CAREFULLY inspect your sending unit for any signs of plastic cracking or crazing when you have the tank out! The most common place for leaks seems to be around the port that comes out the top of the sending unit as seen in the pic earlier in this thread. If there is ANY sign of cracking etc just get a new one. It's bad enough to do this job once but twice will really tick you off.
Mine is an auto and I didn't have to do anything with lowering the transmission BUT I am very experienced with working on pain in the *** cars (everything from my 300ZX Twinturbo to V12 E-type Jag's) and I have small hands.
It's not a DIY friendly job and if you get frustrated easily, have large hands or don't have a lot of mechanical experience it may be a job best left to a shop. Especially an auto transmission car.
I removed both tanks on my 2006 auto to replace faulty sending unit(s). Took about a week on and off using a lift.
About a year later fuel leaking out of the drivers tank. No access to lift this time around so I had to do it in my garage. Found out the elbow on the fuel pump unit had cracked just like the pic earlier in this thread. Replaced entire sending unit/pump assembly. Took about one long day.
Disconnecting the crossover tube was easier the 2nd time around understanding how it all works. Also, most of the time the stainless crossover tube will separate and pull back from the tank but the black fuel lines inside will not pull out of the tank. You have to lower the passenger tank and remove the 10mm nut that holds the crossover tube bracket support above the transmission. You won't be able to see it but, it's there you can feel it. Pulling the crossover tube back as far as I could I got a flat blade screwdriver between the tank and crossover tube and pried the fuel lines out. It doesn't take much. There are Orings for each of the two fuel lines that the black plastic fuel lines get caught on. Each time I used just a little petroleum jelly on the O-rings to help when putting it back together.
CAREFULLY inspect your sending unit for any signs of plastic cracking or crazing when you have the tank out! The most common place for leaks seems to be around the port that comes out the top of the sending unit as seen in the pic earlier in this thread. If there is ANY sign of cracking etc just get a new one. It's bad enough to do this job once but twice will really tick you off.
Mine is an auto and I didn't have to do anything with lowering the transmission BUT I am very experienced with working on pain in the *** cars (everything from my 300ZX Twinturbo to V12 E-type Jag's) and I have small hands.
It's not a DIY friendly job and if you get frustrated easily, have large hands or don't have a lot of mechanical experience it may be a job best left to a shop. Especially an auto transmission car.
The following users liked this post:
Donwuan (06-18-2023)
10-15-2020, 07:05 PM
#98
Do you have tools that we can purchase for installation, compression & decompression of a crossover tube for a C6? How much & how long to get them? Email me, please, at eugeneanderson@hotmail.com or call/text me at 910-876-0520. Thanking you in advance!
10-20-2020, 01:02 PM
#99
Hello Patient Zero! Is there some way for us to purchase your tool for crossover?
We don't have a way to manufacture your crossover tool, but feel like it would really solve our problem. Can we purchase one from somewhere? Please email me at eugeneanderson@hotmail.com or call/text at 910-876-0520. Thanks!
The following users liked this post:
eugeneanderson (10-21-2020)