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While this would be ideal the tests were done all on the same day so the correction factor should be the same. Why would the shop lie and fudge the factor for a particular size? It doesn't matter to them what size they really sell more of
Correction factors should change as the conditions change. If they stay the same all day, it's only because the conditions didn't. A 10* ambient temperature change can cause a 2% difference in power output (8HP).
There's comes a point where larger pipes don't do anything as resulted in that test...1-3/4 gained a lot albeit as well going to a header as opposed to the stock manifold the next size gained a little less and the 2" gained a little less than that so as you can see it's a diminishing return. By bernoillis principle eventually large pipes will have a negative effect but no it's not at 2". However judging by your first comment I suspect you know very little about that
How am I hiding behind my keyboard? You expect me to fly out to the desert to tell you you were wrong? If I had seen you face to face I still would have said you were wrong. What's so hard about that? You made a mistake and in a somewhat condescending way made comments about it, so I merely responded appropriately. Everyone makes mistakes take yours and move on.
What did you imagine the were for?
Hiding behind the keyboard means you chose to not identify yourself in any way. No profile, no name, no location, no car, etc.
Yes, I did make a mistake and I did thank you for it.
BTW, keep in mind that the port area is less than 2 square inches and the ID of a 2" pipe has over 2 3/4 sq in. While Dan B states velocity increases, they fade quickly as the temperatures drop.
Also note where LEAVINU says the dyno results don't match track results when dealing with header changes. There's a reason for this, so do you know why?
Hiding behind the keyboard means you chose to not identify yourself in any way. No profile, no name, no location, no car, etc.
Yes, I did make a mistake and I did thank you for it.
BTW, keep in mind that the port area is less than 2 square inches and the ID of a 2" pipe has over 2 3/4 sq in. While Dan B states velocity increases, they fade quickly as the temperatures drop.
Also note where LEAVINU says the dyno results don't match track results when dealing with header changes. There's a reason for this, so do you know why?
Again because I don't have my profile filled out I'm hiding?? I'm on other boards and it's filled out there if it really bothers you that much...idk what any of that has to do with anything though, you really need to take a step back with this and calm down. But since you're so curious I'm in Florida and have a C6Z.
The port area is less but as I'm sure you know gasses expand with temperature which is part of the reason primaries larger than the port help with scavenging. Velocity will drop as the temp decreases but that's really not going have much of an effect in a primary as small as 25-30"
His track results don't add up because no one races at 3k you are constantly at the redline again more reason to go with a larger primary that makes more up top generally speaking. Which again I respect his results but the primary length he even stated was different which ergo invalidates his results. Given the same length header and design a 1-3/4 header will make less power on an ls than 1-7/8 or 2" and will not make any more mid range than those either. If you feel so strongly you're correct in this case do you have any proof? I have provided multiple tests to showcase what I have personally seen as well as what others have. Will there be exceptions to the rule? Sure, but so far I haven't seen you offer up any valid test data to support that 1-3/4 make more/the same power up top and have better midrange...
In fact here's another test done with an ls1 showcasing exactly what I said...are you going to notice 5-8hp? Probably not and you certainly won't see track results from just that but idk I'm in the business of making my car faster and if I get an extra 5whp up top for almost no extra money then why not take it
That makes sense longer primaries due to the nature of the scavenging will provide better mid range gains and give up a little up top however there's always an exception to the rule. What brand was that? As in my experience I've never seen 1-7/8 longer than 1-3/4 though usually they're he same length. What were the conditions on the track back to back? Dynos can be off but with gains like that it would be hard to explain away
2" headers are nothing new on the ls3 people have been using them for quite some time
I've got a LS2 stroked to 402ci.
Stainless Works was the brand. Before anyone tries to speak negative of them you should know I make over 600rwhp thru a 1 3/4" SW header. It's a solid header no doubt.
However, their 7/8" was no bueno. I had a pic of them side-by-side that showed the difference in primaries but I can't seem to find it now. IIRC, it was close to a foot (or more) in difference between the two. In my case, the longer primaries did make power up top just not as much as I was hoping but did make power in the end.
Again because I don't have my profile filled out I'm hiding?? I'm on other boards and it's filled out there if it really bothers you that much...idk what any of that has to do with anything though, you really need to take a step back with this and calm down. But since you're so curious I'm in Florida and have a C6Z.
The port area is less but as I'm sure you know gasses expand with temperature which is part of the reason primaries larger than the port help with scavenging. Velocity will drop as the temp decreases but that's really not going have much of an effect in a primary as small as 25-30"
His track results don't add up because no one races at 3k you are constantly at the redline again more reason to go with a larger primary that makes more up top generally speaking. Which again I respect his results but the primary length he even stated was different which ergo invalidates his results. Given the same length header and design a 1-3/4 header will make less power on an ls than 1-7/8 or 2" and will not make any more mid range than those either. If you feel so strongly you're correct in this case do you have any proof? I have provided multiple tests to showcase what I have personally seen as well as what others have. Will there be exceptions to the rule? Sure, but so far I haven't seen you offer up any valid test data to support that 1-3/4 make more/the same power up top and have better midrange...
In fact here's another test done with an ls1 showcasing exactly what I said...are you going to notice 5-8hp? Probably not and you certainly won't see track results from just that but idk I'm in the business of making my car faster and if I get an extra 5whp up top for almost no extra money then why not take it
You're still taking dyno numbers as gospel. And yes, I can notice 5-8 HP at the track. It shows up on the timeslip and the scans.
Maybe you don't run at the track, so you have no way short of a dyno to quantify power. You're not listed as a contributor on the Z06 performance list, which is why I assume you may not understand the difference.
Now I'm running 1.75 pipes (LG Streets) on my LS3 bolton car. The usual indication of HP is the trap speed. It's the culmination of several ranges of RPM, unlike a dyno with one pull. My only engine mods are Vararam intake, the headers, a ported IM, and a tune. So my question to you is, what do you think makes me run in the top 10 MPH of the cars on the Z06 stock w/tires list, since they started life with a 75 HP advantage?
You're still taking dyno numbers as gospel. And yes, I can notice 5-8 HP at the track. It shows up on the timeslip and the scans.
Maybe you don't run at the track, so you have no way short of a dyno to quantify power. You're not listed as a contributor on the Z06 performance list, which is why I assume you may not understand the difference.
Now I'm running 1.75 pipes (LG Streets) on my LS3 bolton car. The usual indication of HP is the trap speed. It's the culmination of several ranges of RPM, unlike a dyno with one pull. My only engine mods are Vararam intake, the headers, a ported IM, and a tune. So my question to you is, what do you think makes me run in the top 10 MPH of the cars on the Z06 stock w/tires list, since they started life with a 75 HP advantage?
And here it is...the nail on the head on why you stare evidence down in the face and refuse to believe it. You bought into the lg ruse long ago, I understand that now and you don't want to deviate despite the evidence..
But no, in a 500hp car 5-8whp isn't going to be noticed at the track if you're in the 11s-10s that could easily be explained away by track time and trap variance. So yes in that particular case a back to back dyno is the best way to quantify the gain. If you think you could see that tiny difference reliably at the track you're fooling yourself.
The stock z06 fast list with dr is anywhere from a 120-130 mph trap so I don't really see your point there...a stock ls3 car is easily capable of a 117-118 trap so if you're trapping in the lower-mid 120s that's about expected of a good bolt on ls3 car. But who knows with bigger headers you may cut that down another mph from the extra power.
You're so full of yourself it's getting hilarious, because I don't post my stats and fill out my profile on here that means I know nothing . There's like 30 people on that list, do you honestly think there's only 30 people that have ran stock Z's?
If you want to get right down to it that list honestly isn't that respectable with trap speeds but the times are good. The first and only time I took my car out (only had it a couple months) it went 124 on 7yo run flats bogging on a 2.25 60'. So as far as trap goes I'd be right at the top of that list which again isn't saying much because z's have done better than some of those times by far.
It's pretty clear you're going to keep thinking 1-7/8 or larger is the debil on these engines. That's fine hopefully others reading this thread can see why the lg comparison is skewed to say the least and can examine the other evidence that I've posted. Btw though I'm still waiting for you to post up proof of your claim instead of "hiding" behind jargon with no actual numbers.
And here it is...the nail on the head on why you stare evidence down in the face and refuse to believe it. You bought into the lg ruse long ago, I understand that now and you don't want to deviate despite the evidence..
But no, in a 500hp car 5-8whp isn't going to be noticed at the track if you're in the 11s-10s that could easily be explained away by track time and trap variance. So yes in that particular case a back to back dyno is the best way to quantify the gain. If you think you could see that tiny difference reliably at the track you're fooling yourself.
The stock z06 fast list with dr is anywhere from a 120-130 mph trap so I don't really see your point there...a stock ls3 car is easily capable of a 117-118 trap so if you're trapping in the lower-mid 120s that's about expected of a good bolt on ls3 car. But who knows with bigger headers you may cut that down another mph from the extra power.
You're so full of yourself it's getting hilarious, because I don't post my stats and fill out my profile on here that means I know nothing . There's like 30 people on that list, do you honestly think there's only 30 people that have ran stock Z's?
If you want to get right down to it that list honestly isn't that respectable with trap speeds but the times are good. The first and only time I took my car out (only had it a couple months) it went 124 on 7yo run flats bogging on a 2.25 60'. So as far as trap goes I'd be right at the top of that list which again isn't saying much because z's have done better than some of those times by far.
It's pretty clear you're going to keep thinking 1-7/8 or larger is the debil on these engines. That's fine hopefully others reading this thread can see why the lg comparison is skewed to say the least and can examine the other evidence that I've posted. Btw though I'm still waiting for you to post up proof of your claim instead of "hiding" behind jargon with no actual numbers.
Glad you mentioned that, and going 124 with your Z06 puts you at the middle of the list. My puny little LS3 consistently runs 125's and 126's and high 10's, so you now have a challenge to beat those times. Those are actual numbers and they've been posted up on the performance list in the stickies at the top of this forum for years.
It's funny that you believe dyno numbers that can vary a couple HP by simply cinching down the straps a bit more, but deny that electronic timing systems that measure 4 place decimals of a second are accurate. That accuracy is exactly why I can see an 8 HP difference. On back to back dyno pulls within 2 minutes of each other and no changes, I've seen peak HP numbers at 800 RPM differentials and torque numbers over 8 difference at an identical RPM. So much for that dyno consistency.
Just for reference, I've been in the 10's with Z06 manifolds before going to headers. I only ID'd the LG headers, because the Streets version (not the Super Pro's) fit my requirements and I didn't want to confuse other readers.
Just get back to me when/if you get that Z06 in the 10's and I'll give you some tips to go quicker. Nine guys already did it with just DR's, but you're going to need something better than a 2.25 60'.
OP- Pretty awesome numbers on your car. I know it feels good on the SOTP dyno! I saw these videos below awhile back. I also included my dyno sheet at the bottom. I thought I would post the videos because I think it adds to the discussion on headers. Also to be considered is what size X-pipe & exhaust pipes you have. I think the pipe diameter would also play into the mix. Along w/all the other various factors that were mentioned earlier. Personally, on my 2013 Dry Sump LS3 Grand Sport, I went w/1 7/8" Ceramic Coated/ARH Longtubes, a 3" Ceramic Coated/Catted X-pipe & 3" Titanium Akrapovic Zo6 mufflers. The car also has a Halltech MF103 CAI. My car put down 421 hp & 435 lbft to the wheels after it was tuned.
40 rwhp from a tune is remarkable. I just got the same exact mods on my base LS2 and have 370 at the wheels. Might have to visit LWA.
Give Rob a call, he will tune the car right. I was shocked at the numbers he pulled and still have a hard time believing it. The car sure as heck feels like it though. Still got to get to the track!
10-14-2016, 02:14 PM
