BlindSpot

If you downloaded VCM suite from HPT, that's NOT a "dummy setup" that is THE SW suite. With it, you can look at tunes, look at data logs, you just cannot use the SW to log or edit until you purchase an interface controller with tune credits.

Like shopping, looking through the store window. You can see everything that's there, just cannot touch anything.

You're done loading SW. you have it. Only reason you'd download again is a v roll or update.

HOXXOH

The lightbulb has been illuminated and the quest for knowledge has begun.

Pilgrim86314

What I downloaded and browsed was the Free Demo prominently featured in blue and red on their home page. It just shows various screens from different auto models; I viewed a 2014 Corvette.

The page relating to their VCM Suite 3.4 offers another demo download. Is that semi-functional version (viewing only) what I should be downloading?

Point of operation? (once I get my feet on the ground I'll stop with the noob questions - maybe.) They mention a scanner and an interface. The scanner is apparently part of the VCM Suite. In an email exchange, they mentioned an "interface" as being the storage point for the serial number and (uncertainty here) the "credits." Are those two pieces the same items with different names?

And what the heck is a "credit?' Kinda like rent on the data, or something? Do you used up a credit every time you use the EDIT function?

I have an answer from HP about questions I asked them yesterday re dealer statements. Much of what you all have told me is borne out, but there was some semantic wiggle room in what I was told at Lamb that stops just short of being a lie. Misleading, at best, though.

Furthermore, later on (but not much later,) I'll have a discussion with the Lamb guy about what I got, but was never handed, by way of hardware for my $800. If I read the HP site properly, the purchase should have included a scanner, which I never saw. I also paid for two credits. Apparently a few credits come with the purchase, so the financial okay-ness of the transaction just went down the drain.

Thanks for the help.

Unreal

Interface is the hardware. The actual HP tuners interface box. They use a credit system as a business model. You can use HP tuner credits that cost $50 each to unlock a specific vin to edit, specific model years/makes (such as a 2009 corvette which would allow you to edit all 2009 corvettes) or even buy a full package that is unlimited editing of everything.

Once a vin/model year/etc is purchased with credits, it can be edited as much as you want.

Scanner is just the datalogging/scanning software used to collect data. It is part of the software package.

A new interface model comes with 8 credits. A typical single vin unlock is 2 credits. If you actually paid for a HP tuners suite, then they should have given you the box/interface. $800 for the $550 suite+tune is not that bad of a price but if they kept the hardware, that isn't cool.

Next time just drive down to the Valley and have Nic D, Tony S or Nick V tune it for you. They are the only good people in Arizona.

Pilgrim86314

Interface = the unit that allows the laptop to talk to the ECM? Is it part of the package? I'd hope so.

I'm figuring out what I need to know when I speak sternly with Lamb. I'm thinking he should hand over at least software media (with generated maps on it?), an interface, and a scanner.

Kent

realcanuk

The unit (interface) performs the scanning, as well as allowing changes to tunes. It is one thing.
I really doubt that Lamb had intended to sell you the actual unit. Tuners don't do that. They normally charge for there time, or a flat rate for the tuning, and for the 2 credits needed for your car.

At most they should email you copies of your tune. That way yourself or another tuner can look at it, and modify if you even need to.

Some tuners wont do this, and consider that tune there own property. Not a huge deal, since unless they locked it, which most don't, anyone with HPT can download it from your car.

Unreal

Interface is hardware. The physical interface between the car and laptop.
Scanner is software that is free and part of the ECM suite
Editor is software that is free and part of the ECM suite

You need an interface box to use either pieces of software.
Maps are nothing more than files on the laptop or your ecu. Anyone with HP tuners/efi live/other can pull the map off your ecu assuming they didn't lock it out with a password.

Like Jody said, that is up to them. Some tuners "own" their maps. Others don't care if you have a copy/etc. That should be worked out before you pay anyone for something.

realcanuk

I said that already.

Pilgrim86314

Thanks for that, Canuk. It set off the following.

This is embarrassing to admit, but a big part of all this mess has been due to faulty recollection on my part when I wrote the original document on the club website that set this off.

In that article, I quoted a figure of $800 from memory; that was the amount of the check I wrote to Lamb Chevrolet that day. Your post just now caused me to look at the service invoice for that visit. It shows $450 for the tune and 2 credits @ $75 each. The rest was etc. service on the car.

So, I paid $600 for the whole deal, exactly what the performance manager had told me. It looks like they made money on the credits ($75 instead of $50; no big deal) but overall, based on what I've seen here and there, $450 for the tune was not way out of line, assuming the job was well done.

I think I will get a copy of the results if they'll part with them. and submit them for review here. I'll also update the website to reflect new information gathered from this place.

My apologies and thanks to everyone, and to Lamb Chevrolet, for showing my *** in that fashion.

Kent

HOXXOH

Hopefully this photo will make it easier to understand. Sometimes visuals help.



On the left is the interface for the Pro version. It's $650 and allows you to both scan information from the car and edit the tune. There is also a scan version for a lower price, but you can't edit a tune.
The interface connects to a computer USB port, usually on a laptop so you can use it in the car. The other side of the interface connects to the OBDII port on your car.
The screen currently on the computer is a common screen used to study what has been scanned. Although I didn't show a scan result, you can see screenshots from other people on the HPT site and the CF C6 scan & tune forum.
For the $650 you get the interface with 8 credits and a DVD with the software to download to your computer. The interface contains software to identify the ID of the car and the available remaining credits. If you use 2 credits to tune your car, there will be 6 remaining to be used for other cars. Usually, an individual never needs to buy more credits if they only tune their own cars. After about 7 years, I still have 6 left.
What I suspect Lamb charged you, was to pay for 2 credits to tune your car at $50 each. Those credits cost Lamb $100 (or were part of the initial interface cost), but they may have charged you more than that, since some tuners do it that way. Those credits are on their interface and AFAIK are not transferable to any other interface. Since they own the interface, just like any other tool, you have no right to those credits. However, you may ask for a printout of a screen, but it really does you no good. If you buy your own HPTuners suite, you'll be able to access whatever tune is currently in your car and modify it however you want. If at any time you wish to sell the car, you can download a stock tune from the HPT website and download it to your car to revert back to the OEM tune.

Pilgrim86314

Wow! Despite my misdeeds, confessed above, that is still useful information since I usually wind up buying whatever tools I need to keep me out of the bingo parlors and in the garage. Thank you.

Unreal

The base version can still edit, it just doesn't have the inputs/outputs on the side. There is no version that scans only.

And people can buy credits in large batches, or purchase model years. Typically people tuning a lot of cars buy model years as if you do 4+ of that year it works out better. So just spend the credits and unlock all year/make so your not sinking more into credits.

BlindSpot

Since I just went through this -

You have two purchase choices on the interface, a standard and a PRO. both interfaces function the same. Neither are limited in what or how the interface does between the car and the VCM SW. The difference between the two is that the more expensive PRO comes with ANALOG inputs so that you can add external PIDS to your scan such as a wideband. If you're going to tune on the street like I am the wideband is pretty necessary.

Either option comes with 8 credits. Once you decide to actually manipulate a tune, you'll connect to a specific car. Then you'll be given a choice whether you want to license THAT tune or not. If you choose to edit, the system will "spend" two of your credits and assign unlimited editing to THAT VIN, only. Every time you want to edit a car with a different VIN, it takes new credits in one or more, whatever HPT decides.

sevinn

There is one exception.

If you only ever expect to need a wideband you can buy the standard edition if you buy the AEM 30-0333 wideband since it can be logged via obd2. For most people that will be enough, but unless other sensors start to trickle out with similar technology you're stuck.

BlindSpot

Very true - that wideband is a very new one and has very recently created the option to use the lesser expensive standard interface and still have a WB.

Unreal

You can also wire the wideband into the ac pressure sensor or use one of the other tricks. Or just log wideband in its own software, or just look at it. So saying it is necessary is a stretch.

BlindSpot

To the OP - A suggestion - If you see yourself going down the path of tuning, before you spend any money on anything, it is a good idea to think through several bigger picture aspects such as:

What your goal is for the car (I will never be on a dragstrip, for example. I only drive my car as a WE casual driver, no commutes, no track. This impacts what/how you decide to tune)

How far into this tune stuff you want to go. (I wanted to learn to tune, but not to become a tuner).

How you equip your cockpit. If you're going to mod and/or start peeking into the tune itself, you'll likely need or want the capability to took at certain tune parameters as you drive...how will you accomplish that and what do you think you'll want to see and by what method?

Also, what you purchase first, second, etc. and how you roll everything out so you're not getting the cart before the horse. For example, I went through the cost and effort to install a WB on my stock car, stock tune, and I got that out of the way. Then I purchased HPT because I wanted to establish some DLs on my stock GM set up tune, Then I FIed, then I began the rough tune, then the refinement using my benchmarks in some related places.

There might be more.

BlindSpot

Pretty necessary. That's why I qualified it and didn't say absolutely necessary.

BlindSpot

I'll make an offer to the OP.

Pilgrim - Jump in your car, take a drive out to me. I am in far far N Scottsdale. From Prescott, you'll hit me before getting to Phoenix. I'll show you my setup, we can play around with HPT, we'll take my car for a drive and a scan. We can scan yours, and I'll read your tune so that you can save and take with, just bring a thumb drive.

I won't BS around. I'll share with you what I know and what I don't. I have no ego to satisfy, hell, I stupidly admitted on Corvette Forums I was a newby to tuning, which will never go away now, and I don't care.

The offer is there, just let me know either here or PM. I'll jump off of this thread from here.

schpenxel

I haven't read through the rest of the responses, but I did see this and had to say I thought the same thing.. but it's wrong

They do offer a VCM Scanner only version now. Not sure if you can buy/add credits and switch this over to a full blown version, but I don't think you can

http://www.hptuners.com/products/vcmscanner.php

And for the wideband debate, you can also just use the standard interface and get one of AEM's CAN based widebands and feed wideband over the CAN bus instead of running wires to the HPT interface. It's faster and no offsets to deal with (though I've never really had any issues with them). AEM 30-0333 is the one you'd want.