Evaluating the C6 Bose system
10-19-2004, 03:46 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
Evaluating the C6 Bose system
Over the last few months I have read a variety of opinions on the C6 Bose sound system, ranging from it blows to it’s a good system. Why the divergence in opinion? Many of us could be listening to very different types of music including but not limited to rock, rap, country, bass & drum music and classical. Some of us may have a slight loss in hearing. The high notes in the frequency range are the first to go. Others of us may be tone deaf. Still others may have excellent hearing with the ability to pick out detail. In spite of these variables, there are ways to critically evaluate the merits of one system over another. Let’s start with some of the more basic, but crucial evaluating points:
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
10-19-2004, 04:20 PM
#2
Safety Car
Wow, I can't give a stereo that much thought. But I can tell you my 2003 Silverado with Factory Bose absolutely rocks and my Vette (04 Z06) with factory Bose is less than impressive. Play the same CD back to back and the truck system is in a different league. Just a non scientific opinion from two half deaf ears.
10-19-2004, 05:17 PM
#3
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I have a Nissan Maxima that I spent almost 3K upgrading the stereo system with 2 amps, 2 10"subs speakers and headunit. It definately sounds better than the Vetts system, but with that said, I initially didn't like the upgraded ISB Bose Package. I have since put about 1500 miles on my car, and the speakers seem to sound a lot better (I've been told speakers need to break in also), not as good as in the upgraded Maxima, but at least I'm satisified enough with them not to want to spend money to upgrade the system. My only complaint was the highs were not what I wanted. But like the above post stated that one of the first things that goes is hearing (I'm 50 and have listened to loud music for 30+ years)
Ralph
Ralph
10-19-2004, 05:28 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by bcmarly
Over the last few months I have read a variety of opinions on the C6 Bose sound system, ranging from it blows to it’s a good system. Why the divergence in opinion? Many of us could be listening to very different types of music including but not limited to rock, rap, country, bass & drum music and classical. Some of us may have a slight loss in hearing. The high notes in the frequency range are the first to go. Others of us may be tone deaf. Still others may have excellent hearing with the ability to pick out detail. In spite of these variables, there are ways to critically evaluate the merits of one system over another. Let’s start with some of the more basic, but crucial evaluating points:
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
10-20-2004, 02:19 PM
#5
Racer
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: San Diego CA
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bcmarly,
The Bose in my C5 sounds decent when parked. But while driving,
even turning up the volume it sounds thin. Seems to me like it wasn't
equalized for road noise. I use the preset equalization for rock
or jazz depending on the music.
The Bose in my C5 sounds decent when parked. But while driving,
even turning up the volume it sounds thin. Seems to me like it wasn't
equalized for road noise. I use the preset equalization for rock
or jazz depending on the music.
10-20-2004, 04:54 PM
#6
Drifting
Thread Starter
Originally Posted by peccles
bcmarly,
The Bose in my C5 sounds decent when parked. But while driving,
even turning up the volume it sounds thin. Seems to me like it wasn't
equalized for road noise. I use the preset equalization for rock
or jazz depending on the music.
The Bose in my C5 sounds decent when parked. But while driving,
even turning up the volume it sounds thin. Seems to me like it wasn't
equalized for road noise. I use the preset equalization for rock
or jazz depending on the music.
10-20-2004, 10:59 PM
#7
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Michrider
Wow, I can't give a stereo that much thought. But I can tell you my 2003 Silverado with Factory Bose absolutely rocks and my Vette (04 Z06) with factory Bose is less than impressive. Play the same CD back to back and the truck system is in a different league. Just a non scientific opinion from two half deaf ears.
10-20-2004, 11:00 PM
#8
Team Owner
Originally Posted by RalphWiens
I have a Nissan Maxima that I spent almost 3K upgrading the stereo system with 2 amps, 2 10"subs speakers and headunit. It definately sounds better than the Vetts system, but with that said, I initially didn't like the upgraded ISB Bose Package. I have since put about 1500 miles on my car, and the speakers seem to sound a lot better (I've been told speakers need to break in also), not as good as in the upgraded Maxima, but at least I'm satisified enough with them not to want to spend money to upgrade the system. My only complaint was the highs were not what I wanted. But like the above post stated that one of the first things that goes is hearing (I'm 50 and have listened to loud music for 30+ years)
Ralph
Ralph
10-20-2004, 11:03 PM
#9
Team Owner
Originally Posted by bcmarly
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
Cheers - Bob
Cheers - Bob
10-20-2004, 11:23 PM
#10
Safety Car
Wow, very nice and I agree with most all of it. Now let me point out the weaknesses of the Bose system to my ears. You nailed it right on the head about the hearing loss. With that being said, here is what I see the problems are. I have to agree that a well engineered CD sounds pretty damn good and if that was the only source and I only listened to the car when the engine was off. I would not have changed a thing. BUT not all sources are created equal, I will use XM for example, somehow the signal is either not being decompressed or it is improperly biased. Consequently the highs are lost and the bass is attenuated. There is not enough adjustment in the system to bring them back to an acceptable level. Add in a poorly engineered recording, some road noise, and you have some pretty crappy stuff left over for your ears. FM is a bit better. Replacing speakers helped dramatically. They didn't invent tweeters because it was unnecessary. The Bose speakers don't reproduce the highs very efficiently compared to the mid-highs, so as you turn up the system to compensate the mid-highs drown out the highs.
But as we all know beauty is in the ears of the beholder.
But as we all know beauty is in the ears of the beholder.
10-21-2004, 12:15 PM
#11
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Originally Posted by bcmarly
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1:... Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. ... The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem....
Cheers - Bob
Cheers - Bob
I think the snare drum is definitely cherry wood, and that you have way too much spare time!
11-17-2010, 03:34 AM
#12
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I also think that C6 got better noise isolation with the extra sound material, also it is true that noise resulting from road is the leading factor for bad sounding!
Over the last few months I have read a variety of opinions on the C6 Bose sound system, ranging from it blows to it’s a good system. Why the divergence in opinion? Many of us could be listening to very different types of music including but not limited to rock, rap, country, bass & drum music and classical. Some of us may have a slight loss in hearing. The high notes in the frequency range are the first to go. Others of us may be tone deaf. Still others may have excellent hearing with the ability to pick out detail. In spite of these variables, there are ways to critically evaluate the merits of one system over another. Let’s start with some of the more basic, but crucial evaluating points:
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
1. What's the purpose of a sound system? Its purpose is to accurately recreate the sound and sound stage as intended by the band and its sound engineer. The instruments must sound natural, and the system must not color the instruments.
2. Sound stage? A sound stage is the ability of a sound system to accurately recreate the audio cues of the acoustical recording environment. Was it recorded in a small studio, a small club, a large auditorium? Was there echo in the room, etc. etc.. A good system will reveal these important sound cues.
3. Imaging? The ability of a system to accurately recreate the sound of the recorded instrument. Evaluating a system where the recorded instruments are amplified is more challenging as there are sound enhancements that effect the sound of the instrument like distortion, wah wah effects etc.. Drums are an acoustic instrument that are normally recorded without the use of effects (there are exceptions) as are other acoustic instruments such as acoustic guitar, stand up bass, horns etc., and these are more easily evaluated. Another aspect of imaging is the ability of the system to reveal the location the instruments on the sound stage. Did the system reveal that the drums were on center stage behind the guitarist who is in front and to the left of the drummer? A good system will recreate all of this audio information.
4. Dynamics? Can the system resolve the dynamic levels of the music. Can it resolve loud passages in the music where the instruments are played at a very loud level. This is especially difficult with multiple instruments that might include a horn or string section. A lesser system will sound congested when presented with complex passages at high volumes. It simply makes it hard to delineate the various instruments and the resulting sound is muddled.
5. The quality of the recording has a lot to do with how we perceive a sound system. Unfortunately, some recordings recess the highs and pump up the bass or vise versa. A good sound system will not compensate for the inherent weaknesses of the recording, but rather show them warts and all. If the bass sounds bloated and wooly from the recording source it will sound bloated and wooly on a $20,000 system. Tone controls can compensate for some of this but it can’t make it disappear and then it colors the midrange and treble. Finally, with the advent of digital recording, a CD can now be made very cheaply, and although most recordings by and large do sound better, some clearly do not.
Evaluating a system is more easily done in a controlled listening environment, like your living room, or your dedicated listening room. An evaluation of a car’s sound system can be accomplished but it is more difficult because we are dealing with engine noise, exhaust noise, wind noise and especially road noise where the quality and type of road surface can actually cancel out some of the frequencies. Unfortunately the sound that is most effected is the sound in the frequency range of 40 htz – 100 htz which is precisely where the bass information is located.
In order to evaluate the strengths and weaknesses of the Bose system in our C6’s I will review 2 songs from the Red Hot Chile Peppers album, “By the Way” and one from 311’s “Transistor.” Both of these bands have excellent bass guitarists, in flea and peanut (yup, those are their names) and drummers in Chad Smith and Chad Sexton.
I will also review whom I recently saw live. The disc in review is titled. This should reveal any weaknesses in the system as this is a big band with an acoustic bass and horn section comprised of 5 horns.
Let’s start with the Chile Peppers “By the Way” and song # 5. The bass here is very pronounced and tight. Smith’s toms which are also featured have a very natural and resonant sound. Smith plays a very bright cymbal on this tune. You can here the ping like quality of the cymbal and the definition of the stick on the cymbal. The imaging is again very good and you can here that Smith’s ride cymbal is to his right with the bass tom to his left. This CD is very well recorded and produced. The staccato like picking of the guitar strings come through nicely. I don’t here any strain. Now I’ll move on to track 8 which features vocal harmonies. Once again the imaging is good. Here you can hear and see the layering of the vocals. The lead singer’s voice appears center left with the guitarist’s backup harmony vocal just above and to the left of Anthony’s lead voice. On the chorus, there’s some congestion and the producer pumped up the vocals and recessed the instruments. I hear some distortion here and the Bose is not able to clearly resolve the dynamics of the chorus. I believe the producer pumped up the vocals too much here and I would like to hear the instruments more clearly during this passage: his choice, not mine.
Now we’ll move onto Transistor song #1: Peanut’s bass line is clearly defined here as is the drumming. Sexton tunes his snare drum very tight, to the point where it is almost choked. This is clearly revealed though the Bose system. Sexton loves snare drum rim shots and these are easily heard. Sexton uses a single bass drum pedal and he loves playing triplets and other technical lines. The recording features this and the sub woofer punches out Sexton’s bass drum riffs with authority. I can clearly hear and especially FEEL the bass beater coming from the driver side sub as it smashes up against the bass drum head. Very impressive! Otherwise the vocals are very clear and you can hear the words as they are being sung: another important evaluation cue. All in all the Bose system has no problem resolving this relatively simple music of bass, drums, guitars, organ and vocals. The imaging is very good.
Let’s move onto the more complex task of reproducing big band music. On track 6 the song opens up with the bass playing in unison with the horn section comprised of trombone, tenor and alto sax’s, trumpets and flugelhorn. No problem here as the system delineates the multitude of instruments; no smearing of the detail. At 6:30 minutes into the song the drummer takes a solo. The drums sound very good and you can clearly here the drummer is playing a wood snare drum (probably maple). The snares are loose and the resulting sound is and big fat. Here the Bose is able to handle the dynamics of the drums and cymbal interchange with no problem.
All in all the Bose system has good imaging with a fairly neutral sound. There is some coloring but not too much. The sound stage is good as the system accurately reveals the vocal layering with correct location of the vocals and instruments. There is some distortion when presented with dynamic passages where the sound level is high. The bass all in all is good and fairly well defined. Unfortunately it does lose some of its presence when the car is at speed and especially on crummy surfaces.
If any of you happen to have these CD’s give them a listen in your car and tell me what you hear.
The settings on the Bose were: Treble: 2 notches ahead of the mid point, Bass: 2 notches from the max and midrange, 1 notch behind the mid point.
My reference system is : Definitive Technology speakers BP 2000’s, Lexicon processor/ preamp, Musetex CD player and Sunfire sub woofer set at a 40 htz crossover MITerminator 2 speaker cables and inter connects and an Adcom line filter.
Cheers - Bob
