LSs1Power

The idea started from another thread when we went off topic and compared the V10 M5 to the LS7.

So now I'm going to compare few other engines outputs to the LS7.
I gathered chassis dyno for cars that are running these engines. All these are stock and done on a Dynojet except the Carrera GT that was done on a Mustang Dyno which makes it even more impressive.

Please keep in mind that the AMG cars run an Automatic tranny.
Take these numbers and graphs for what it is... This is not a scientific research or anything like that.

These are the peak numbers:

5.7 Carrera GT V10 575rwhp @ 8000 411rwtq @ 6000
5.0 M5 V10 421rwhp @ 7600 311rwtq @ 6200
7.0 LS7 V8 448rwhp @ 5700 420rwtq @ 4800
6.2 V12 Murcielago (Awd run) 433rwhp @ 5700 390rwtq @ 5600
5.0 V10 Gallardo (rwd run) 415rwhp @ 7800 335rwtq @ 4700
5.5 AMG 55 (SC) 420rwhp @ 5000 460rwtq @ 3000
6.0 AMG 65 (TT) 528rwhp @ 4900 709rwtq @ 2500
8.3 V10 SRT10 447rwhp @ 5500 500rwtq @ 4000
5.4 V8 Ford GT (SC) 515rwhp @ 6200 481rwtq @ 3600



If you don't remember the advertised ratings for these cars they are as follow:

Carrera GT 605HP 435TQ
M5 500HP 383TQ
LS7 505HP 470TQ
Murcielago 571HP 480TQ
Gallardo 500HP 376TQ
AMG 55 469HP 516TQ
AMG 65 612HP 737TQ
SRT10 510HP 525TQ
Ford GT 550HP 500TQ

Now the fun part.... Look at the rwhp curves of all the engines layed on each other in one graph. (If someone knows how to attach it to the thread please do so)

RWHP Comparison

Here are the rwtq curves for all the engines layed on top of each other in one graph.

RWTQ Comparison

Its interesting to see how the LS7 fair against the best engines out there. As you can see there are three high revving engines (Carrera GT, M5 and Gallardo) and they make most of their power up top with a really nice flat TQ curve... Then you have three low down TQ monsters (AMG 65, AMG 55, Ford GT and SRT 10)... At the end you have the engines that perform well in all ranges of the power band which include the LS7 and again the SRT 10 as well AMG 55 and Ford GT engine. I was surprised at the Murcielago results... i expected more out of it, but keep in mind its the only car that ran on AWD mode so the drivetrain loss is the highest among the rest of the cars.

What started to be a debate on which engines is better between the LS7 and S65 M5 V10 engine led us to these results. Looking at the results we can see that the LS7 is beaten by at least 4 engines while the M5 V10 engine is outgunned by most of the engines listed.

It is interesting looking at the M5 and Gallardo HP and TQ curve since both engines are using a N/A 5.0 V10. The Gallardo engine has a better TQ and HP curve until 7K RPM+ where the M5 catch up.

Engines i would love to add, but couldnt find any dyno runs for them are the Enzo and the new AMG 63.



NOTE: If someone can host these graphs so i can link it to this post instead of having a link let me know.

997T_Z06

Good comparison.

Verrückt

Nice comparison. Thanks for taking the time to prepare it.

I would say the LS7 has a great combination between high RPM power and low RPM torque. It's not really biased to either side.

Those AMG engines are just brutal and respond very well to modifications.

The Gallardo has a better torque curve, but suffers up top due to its longer stroke. The BMW engine is very undersquare.

JHL81

BMW’s 5-litre V10 has been crowned the best engine in the world for the second year in a row at the International Engine of the Year Awards 2006 held at Engine Expo in Stuttgart, Germany.

The 507bhp, 4,999cc powerplant of the BMW M5 and M6 Coupé offers flexibility, high revving nature - the engine can rev to 8,250rpm - and sublime power. Juror Frank Markus from America’s Motor Trend magazine said of the BMW V10, "A technological tour de force, and about the closest one can come to buying a Formula One engine for the road," while Japan-based automotive freelancer Peter Nunn commented, "The BMW V10 is a masterclass in exhilarating power, sound, response and brilliant packaging that comes as standard." Markus and Nunn were two of the 61 motoring journalists from 29 countries that chose the greatest powerplants in the world.

As impressive as the technology used in the engine is the sheer scale of the win; the Munich-built V10 finished more than 180 points clear of the nearest rival, Ferrari's 4.3-litre V8 as found in the F430. As a result, there were plenty of jurors keen to sing the engine’s praises. Australia’s John Carey, of Wheels magazine said of the engine: “Points the way for others to follow, with its ability to change power output and throttle response at the touch of a button.”

Results

points
1. BMW 5-litre V10 (M5, M6) 342

2. Ferrari 4.3-litre V8 (F430) 160

3. Mercedes-AMG 6-litre bi-Turbo (SL65, CL65, Maybach) 130

4. Chevrolet 7-litre V8 (Corvette ZO6) 103

5. Porsche 3.8-litre (911) 54

6. BMW 3.2-litre (M3, Z4 M) 52

outnumbered

Nice work.Looks like a lot of time.Interesting results.Of course all of these
#'s are balanced into the car as far as weight and gearing.
Thanks for posting.

charltom

Your shorthand must be excellent to have got all that jotted down while you listened to the radio!

Adrenaline Junky

You neglected to say that for a relatively frugal 12-15,000 your LS7 can be turning out 620 rwhp/ 590 rwtq. Now how does that equate ?

When and if I line up next to one of your exotics with the " More powerful " engine, my badboy should walk away from you at 1/12th the price of an Enzo, Carerra GT, or F1 !!!

Take LGs G7X4 dyno run and put it where it belongs -- at the top !!

JHL81

It's a long drive home from work


http://www.ukintpress.com/engineofth.../bestperf.html

PeterK

You should hang out with rices! They'll "totally get" you

dietrich

Do you also drive civic and mustang? This is common "I can build faster for less" argument.

Verrückt

That's not the point.

Does the G7X4 tuned engine meet emission standards? Does the car as tuned pass noise requirements? Will it still pass GM internal durability standards on the motor and the drivetrain? Is it even street legal?

The answer to all of those questions is NO.

There's always something better/cheaper. A 5.0 motor can be built to that specification for even less than the LS7. Does that make it better? No sir.

Adrenaline Junky

As far as PeterK and dietrich's comments go, I suppose you say the same thing to Calloway or LPE ?

Verruckt's point is well taken ( no umlaut on my keyboard )
Will all/any of these engines pass Ca emissions?

Personally, I should be able to tell you about the G7X4 in about 4 weeks.

LawrenceFromTorrance

In addition to the information supplied, I would like to see engine weight and engine efficiency. I know getting efficiency is difficult but how about miles per gallon times the cars weight divided by 1000?

Hans Grüber

Quite laughable when one considers what data they based their conclusion on, or rather lack of. Any fool can read a few manufacturer promo specs. I would be impressed even half of those journalists could differentiate between a crankshaft and a camshaft. How about independent quantitative scientific testing.

04redgto

That AMG 65 TQ Monster!!

THe BMW is about the last car I would choose over all those other cars. Very good info though.

EuG

I think that NA motors should not be compared to FI motors.
They’re very different and I really don’t see the point of such comparison, unless you just want to compare the power and that’s it.

If this post is meant to compare how good a engine itself is, we must consider its weight/size as well.

For example AMG 65 looks mighty impressive with it’s 528rwhp @ 4900 709rwtq @ 2500 output, but how much does it weight with the twin turbos and all the necessary turbo ducting? I bet that number is shocking

EuG

LOL
This is laughable.
I’d really love to know what are the categories they used to grade these motors on?

Hans Grüber

Exactly!

Literally all those morons do is read a few brochure specs and base their conclusions on that! We mock ricers for doing exactly that!

I regard their conclusion as highly as Housewives Monthly pick for car of the year.

JHL81

I knew that would be the comment already before I posted

Probably beat to death, several times

The Beemer V10 is a million miles ahead of the Chevy in terms of technology, Individual throttles on each cylinder, constanly variable valve timing and fueling ect, it has genuine Formula 1 based technology in the engineering and engine management.

Ok you have an aluminium block and some trick titainium rods but in the end it is just a big old single cam 2 valve per cylinder push rod motor that gets nowhere near it's rivals in terms of horse power per litre and it's configuration will ultimately hold it back.

The price for the performance of the LS7 is not in question but you guys need to take off the rose (sorry chevy) tinted glasses sometimes. Open a Summit or Jeggs catalogue and there are half a dozen crate motors for sale with 500+ hp, what you have is good but in engineering terms not special in todays world. Think about from a slightly different perspective, if BMW, Mercedes or even Ferrari were to simply increase there capacity to a naturally asperated 7 litres, at 100hp/ltr, which is the norm for European performance motors, you wouldn't even be at the opening game never mind the final.

Hans Grüber

Around since at least the 50's.

Again nothing new nor innovative.

????????????????????

Such as????????

Explain the engineering relevance of hp/L

A crate motor is not exactly comparable to an engine that is available in a production vehicle

Zonda I seem to recall has a 7.3L Mercedes V12. What exactly is your point?