Heber Guy

Just got the below from a Viper club friend.
Flame Away as I am standing back and fully suited.

Automotive Mythology 101
Since Transport Technologies (www.SuperTransport.net) is in the “toy hauler” business, and we have a reputation for “telling it like it is”, our clientele often make inquiries and ask for recommendations on everything from cars to submarines. The following is therefore dedicated to those of you with an interest in these areas and “what they don’t want you to know about some of these toys”.
This section features Corvettes, Vipers, Lambhorginis, Ferraris, etc
Myth #1. Corvettes: “You will never have to paint this beauty or worry about matching the paint because the color is impregnated right into the fiberglass surface”. Fact: There is no such thing as UV stabilized gelcoat in polyester resin (fiberglass). The very chemistry which creates gelcoat has baffled the best scientists in the world in their search for a real and meaningful UV stabilizing ingredient. Fading actually begins the moment sunlight touches the surface although it may not be noticeable to the untrained eye for the first year. Typical gelcoat is as thin as a sheet of paper (20/1000”) and because it fades, it is virtually impossible to color match when damaged.
Now while many may take issue with this, note General Motors’ recent admission (after over 50 years of building fiberglass Corvettes) of UV induced color fading and their most recent attempt to solve this problem on their so called ZR1 Corvette, an automobile which many have now dubbed a very expensive publicity stunt. In fact, this was a vehicle that GM claimed was destined to embarrass Vipers, Ferraris and Lambhorginis while weighing just a tick over 3,000 pounds and retailing for only $72,000. However, it weighed in 400 pounds heavier than predicted and an MSRP (with typical options) of over $120,000 at the handful of dealerships where it has managed to make an appearance. More to the point, their solution to UV stabilization was an injection into the ZR-1’s gel coat of a secret ingredient which GM claims cost $60,000 a gallon ! You read that correctly, - $60,000 a gallon.
Could ingredients in the gel coat increase the Corvette’s price by $50,000 ? And as to whether it is a real cure for fading, no one knows for sure whether it actually works because despite the hype and totally misleading propaganda by many automotive publications, the first wave of these cars spent most of their existence inside dealership repair shops for engine and driveline problems including an epidemic of blown head gaskets, scorched valves, scored cylinders and other related problems caused by excessive boost pressure from the supercharger, which was the result of an ill-advised attempt to make unrealistic horsepower from a relatively small 6.2 liter street engine. In fact, one insider indicated that after the first twenty cars self destructed, GM brass proposed adding $15,000 to the MSRP just to cover engine warranty issues.
However, if you are one of the legions of dedicated “dyed in the wool” Corvette lovers, there is hope ! Since GM is basically bankrupt, you can now buy one of the 40,000 standard production Corvettes built each year for about $35,000 and ride around in what looks like a reliable ZR1 because virtually no one can tell these cars apart ! And this should also bring a smile to your face because you just saved $85,000 and have a car you can actually drive….
So how did GM do in their quest to embarrass the Vipers, Lambos, and Ferrari’s ? Perhaps the answer is best summed up by a gentleman who with over forty years of racing experience managed to be objective because he owns a few Corvettes including a new ZR1, along with three Lambhorginis, Ferraris, a couple of Vipers and assorted other cars. To quote him, “the media often makes unqualified statements about these cars. These are complex machines and you have to own and drive them for more than a few days to really appreciate and grasp the distinctions between them. And quite honestly, while each car has its virtues and liabilities, some of these cars are in a different class from the others. I like the Corvettes for what they are however the recent direction GM has taken including copying Viper styling, suggest that the car is becoming a “VW”… a Viper Wannabee. And for that and many other reasons, you will never see the owners of these cars lining up at the local Chevrolet dealer to trade them in on a Corvette”….
Ferraris, Vipers, and Lambhorginis, enjoy the exclusivity that comes from being an “exotic”, literally a very limited production automobile, so you don’t see yourself coming and going. The point is, no one is going to confuse a Lambhorgini with anything else and even though General Motors did their best to blatantly copy the Viper including the entire front end, when placed side by side, the Viper is obviously the real McCoy.
However, the Viper is still $35,000 less than the ZR1 Corvette, and this is where the real embarrassment begins considering that the SRT-10 Viper is essentially a hand assembled, limited production car (only 800 a year on average) with high quality components including body panels of thermoformed UV stabilized ABS. And unlike the ZR1, it has an extremely reliable 8.4 liter aluminum V-10 engine backed by a realistic warranty.
Last but not least, there are the facts and there are abstracts. The abstract are a little harder to describe because they are things like the sound of a V-10 Viper, V12 Lambo or Ferrari at full grunt. Great sports cars have personality and they are worn - not driven and when the car and driver become one, the car becomes an extension of the driver with a harmony that is impossible to describe. The Viper, Ferrari, and Lambhorgini all produce that magic.
The facts are easier to discern: The winding hilly course at Nurburgring is THE BENCHMARK race track by which performance automobile handling is now measured. Every automotive company of any stature now tests there and challenges each year for the record.
• Nurburgring: Official track record = 7 minutes-22 seconds set by a stock 2009 600 horsepower Viper SRT-10. (Also holds the track record at Monte Carlo, LeMans and Sebring).
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• World record quarter mile elapsed time and speed: Bradenton, Florida Dragway. 7:98 seconds x 186 mph. Viper Venom Twin Turbo.
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• World speed record: Bonneville Salt Flats: 2009. Viper Venom Twin Turbo. 262 mph.
SPORTS CAR RACING: Question: When it comes to sports car racing and identifying with a particular brand, the question always comes down to what exactly constitutes a production or limited production automobile vs. a dedicated race car? Answer: In the old days by Nascar rules, at least 500 copies had to be sold to the public prior to any race in which an identical model (with limited engine and safety parameters) of that automobile participated. Of course today, a Nascar race car has absolutely no connection to a production automobile. Fast forward forty years to the current sports car world. Despite mass confusion via too many sanctioning bodies, the requirement has always been at least 100 units to be produced and sold prior to any race. And there was a good reason for this as it prevented factories from producing expensive “one off” race cars meant to compete against real production cars.
So let’s explore GT1 racing which is the most identifiable “branding” on televised and is actually designed to dupe the public regarding race cars vs. sports cars. On March 16, 2009, four days before the kick off event for the 24 Hours of LeMans series, General Motors announced the introduction of what they called a “limited edition” (not limited production) C6.R Corvette. However, given the hype and rhetoric of GM’s public relations people, one would think that these cars had been sold in dealer showrooms for years and certainly met limited production status. However, the two factory sponsored “production” cars destined for the season opener in Sebring were not ready for the introductory press conference. So GM painted two Z06 Corvettes and told the press corps that these were the actual race cars. When someone pointed out that they looked like repainted Z06’s, GM’s public relations director blurted out that the new C6.R’s originated as Z06’s with “value added componentry”, whatever that means.
On March 21, C6.R Corvette chassis’ #5 & #6 arrived at Sebring and won an empty GT1 class practically devoid of competition. To be clear, these were two GM sponsored dedicated race cars sporting giant wings and other extreme modifications created by special race teams. Running on straight ethanol, not only did they not resemble the earlier press conference cars or models anyone had ever seen, they did not even have Corvette engines built by GM. Of course, no one will ever be able to purchase similar cars through any dealership, yet in post race ceremonies, the race team alluded over and over to the fact that GM had gone exerted a maximum effort to produce these ultimate technologically advanced automobiles that the public could purchase at their local dealers.
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Enter The Twin Turbo Venom Viper: In contrast, there is no argument that these Vipers easily exceed the international standard for limited production automobiles (over 100 built). And these are not race cars or specially prepared “one offs” but true limited production automobiles just like Shelby Mustangs. The fact is, today anyone can purchase a Viper ACR or Venom model with twin turbos that produces over 1000 reliable horsepower with enhanced brakes, suspension, aerodynamic body components, through a number of sources including specific Chrysler/Dodge dealers ! And they also cost about the same as a ZR1 Corvette which is in the area of $120,000 with typical options of which less than fifty (50) had been built as of this printing. In terms of overall quality, perhaps the better comparison would be to a Lambhorgini Gallardo ($225,000) or Ferrari ($325,000 +).
And while automotive publications refuse to recognize Viper ACR/Venoms as limited production cars or put them head to head with cars like the ZR1 Corvette, Lambo, or Ferrari, these same publications list cars as “limited production” such as Panov models (which are not for sale in the United States) or Warren Mosler’s MT-900S, a very fast mid-engine sports car, the origin of which is a monocoque constructed (2200 lbs.) race car. Only recently available in the United States, it sports a $300,000 plus price tag and only a handful have ever been produced. So where is the justification in excluding the Viper while including the C6.R or ZR1 Corvette, Panov or custom built Mosler, none of which comes close to the 100 car minimum for “limited production” status? The answer smacks of politics and it is designed to totally mislead the public !
Moving On Up: The fact is, the ACR/Venom Vipers take over where the SRT-10’s leave off with world class performance such as 0-60 in just over two seconds and quarter mile times in the eight second range at over 160 mph. However, unlike supercharged cars such as the Corvette with its temperamental engine, these cars are reliable and can be driven daily.
How to make over 1000 horsepower street drivable: In order to keep things reliable, you start out with cubic inches as in 8.4 liters divided by ten cylinders which lowers the stress on each cylinder. Then you set up the computer control module so that under normal driving conditions and partial throttle, the module keeps the turbo waste gates open which means the boost by-passes the engine. So the engine drives just like any normally aspirated (8.4 liter x 600 HP) engine running on 92 octane gasoline.
Also, with the gates open and no boost, there is no high compression cylinder pressure or heat build up in traffic, which translates into a car that is dependable and totally drivable. And if you keep your foot out of it, you should see 12 mpg city and 21 mpg highway. The fact is, with either a twin turbo Viper Venom or Lambhorgini Gallardo, expect great performance, great drivability and excellent resale value due to the car’s rare exclusivity. And both cars come with an optional five years x 60,000 mile warranty.
Computer Assisted Driver Skill Levels: Most potential buyers have never driven a car with this kind of horsepower therefore the transition to driving these cars is aided by the computer control module which by modulating the waste gates, prevents the engine from making more power than the rear tires can handle. This is a totally pre-programmable function which means there is no learning curve so you don’t have to practice slipping the clutch while feathering the throttle to launch the car like a rocket from a standing start. Mash the “pedal to the metal” and the advantages of computer controlled twin turbochargers becomes immediately apparent as the module closes the wastegates in a precise and controlled manner with boost increasing based on gear selection vs. time.
Example: First gear - 0-60, = 600-725 hp. Second gear, 60 to 80 mph = 750-850 hp. Third gear, = 850-950 hp. Fourth/Fifth/Sixth gear = 950-1050 hp., etc.. And all this from a car that remains a docile and street drivable. All that is required is some restraint and sanity on the part of the driver.
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Speaking of sanity and driver skills, this prompts us to suggest that this very unique control module may have been designed with certain automotive journalists in mind. The number of expensive exotic cars wrecked by automotive writers and journalist (who often call themselves test drivers) has spiraled out of control in recent years and one candidate for computer control might be Speed Channel Television’s - Tanner Faust. The Speed Channel and/or Faust, recognized that the country desperately needed another new scripted “reality show” and therefore dreamed up a program called - “Supercars Exposed”.
As part of his opening “exposure”, Tanner decides to race a Viper against a sub-compact at the Willow Springs Race Track. Now keep in mind that he is pitting the 2.4 liter sub-compact against a car whose heritage includes the prestigious track record at Nurburgring, winning LeMans several times, multiple world championships and has one of the highest skid pad rating of any car in the world at over 1.1 G’s.. To be clear, this is a car whose braking and cornering have been described by world champion race car drivers as “exceptional” even by race car standards and whose acceleration has been described as “brutal”. Thus, the Viper’s reputation is solid and totally intact. However, no one apparently told young Tanner Faust that.
All of which brings us to ask what such a match up was meant to prove other than to increase Fox television ratings by virtue of the fact that there are a million kids in America driving loud compact cars with giant wings on the back who would like to believe that they can blow away a Viper. And while Tanner selected a race car driver to handle the highly modified sub-compact race car, who will be driving the stock 600 horsepower Viper ? Why Tanner Faust of course ! And what are Mr. Faust’ credentials to drive this car ? Well, never mind that but we do know that his untested theory of launching a Viper was to rev the engine to 5,000 rpm and let his foot slide off the clutch ! In his defense, we should point out that this may be because his total prior driving experience before this race and getting into a Viper was limited to 100 horsepower sub-compacts.
And of course Tanner, determined to slant the playing field, picked Willow Springs for this expose’ because it is so tight, it could double as a go-kart track. So green flag and throttle wide open, Tanner lets his foot slip off the clutch and is left sitting at the gate, amidst clouds of billowing tire smoke as the little sub-compact squirts down the short straight-away to the first corner. And no matter how hard he tries, Tanner can never quite catch up because every 100 yards or so, throttle still wide open and tires billowing smoke, he spins totally out of control off the track and into the sand. And since Tanner only knows “wide open and off”, with the race mysteriously limited to a few laps, these numerous off track excursions and “snake bites” from the Viper do not really give him a chance to redeem himself. However, this doesn’t stop him from recapping the day’s events by suggesting on national television that he has exposed the Viper to be an ill-handling fraud of an automobile which was easily out-performed by the little Subaru sub-compact.….
And for those who don’t understand Tanner’s hidden agenda or think this is harmless entertainment, millions of impressionable young people have seen this program. And they must feel a wave of redemption knowing that they don’t have to get a second job at McDonalds and spend big bucks for a Viper, Ferrari or Lambhorgini to become blisteringly fast.
Now the extension of this is to ask any Ferrari, Lambhorgini, Porsche or Viper owner what they detest the most about driving their cars on the street and they will tell you it is these same impressionable kids and other boneheads whose very existence revolves around computer racing games and these so called “reality shows” full of scripted nonsense, who suddenly show up on the street in the real world with their toy cars and pickup trucks, driving like maniacs, who think they can embarrass a “phony” exotic automobile by enticing it into an illegal and dangerous street race.…
And to illustrate the extended influence on young people that these scripted media events have created, we offer two examples: First, some of you reading this may be old enough to remember “Dukes of Hazzard” a television show which was based around a theme of “good old boys” being chased in their “look-a-like” race car by the local sheriff. Of course, they always got away by being highly skilled drivers (who used to run moonshine) and jumping over creeks, trucks, etc. Never mind the fact that there were over thirty “General Lee” cars destroyed during filming in just the first two years. Worse, during the run of this show, we know that over two hundred impressionable teenagers were killed and over one thousand injured trying to duplicate these stunts. Today, the tremendous increase in police pursuits (now reported to be more than fifty per day nationwide) is due to the same impressionable mental midgets who actually believe they can outrun the police, their radios, spike strips and helicopters.
Second point: One brash kid all of 17 years old, challenges a Viper owner to a race and as a result was asked what he really knew about Vipers. His response was rather typical: “Well, like I saw a really fast car like mine on television and then I got this awesome high performance air cleaner and took the muffler off and it’s like really loud so I figure I got about the same power as the Viper. And when told he was dreaming and asked how he thought his Honda Civic with about 140 actual horsepower and 5” wide tires was going to out accelerate a 600 HP Viper with half its weight on 13-1/2” wide rear tires ? His response: I really don’t need 600 HP cause Vipers are owned by old men who can’t drive like I can”. (Turns out the Viper owner was a 45 year old former NHRA top fuel drag racer who briefly held the world record at under 5 seconds and over 300 mph).
The response above indicates that “you can’t fix stupid” and to demonstrate how big this problem has become, an increasing number of exotic car owners indicate they will no longer drive their cars on the street because they are being harassed constantly, putting their automobiles, themselves, their friends and family in constant danger. Worst areas for this insanity? Southern California and South Florida. And many owners indicated that since the enjoyment of driving is gone, their cars are now up for sale… Sadly, in these meccas for supercars, this marks the end of an era…
Therefore, the title of Tanner Faust’ show Supercars Exposed, may be quite appropriate since the end result is exposing these Supercars to wreckless morons on the street. However, it may be that Tanner caught a lot of flack from the farce at Willow Springs Raceway because his next show involved taking it to the other extreme as he shows up at a drag racing facility driving a car for the “in crowd”. A 450 horsepower, 5000 pound, $225,000 Mercedes Benz four door luxury sedan. He then demonstrates how to “heat the tires” by cutting donuts for ten minutes in the parking lot. Then after virtually destroying the back tires, he proceeds to demonstrate how to shut down “professional drag racers”, as he calls them, while he and his girl friend cruise down the strip in air conditioned comfort having a leisurely conversation about the cushy leather seats while listening to the forty speaker stereo system and eating a snack !
Now if Tanner Faust would stay over at the drag strip, (and not edit the film for the result he wants), the world might be entertained watching the real professionals take him to school, however his obsession seems to be tearing through residential neighborhoods at over 100 mph in exotic cars which has not only has resulted in numerous tickets from irate cops (caught on video), it also sets a terrible example for young people who as we pointed out earlier, often emulate this insanity and end up dying in horrific car crashes every day in this country.
So with the real fraud and reality exposed here along with Tanner’s behind, let us focus on the “insanity” issue which is why anyone including car dealers would loan expensive high performance cars to someone like Tanner Faust and other automotive writers (whose real claim to fame is churning out witty cynical phrases). Not all, but too many of these people obviously have no regard or respect for these cars or what it cost to buy one since they abuse and crash them on a regular basis. To be clear, these people are not qualified to be even sitting in the cars, much less driving them.
And with that in mind, perhaps Tanner’s constituent, a feature writer (and expert) over at another publication (0 to 60 Magazine), should get the top bozo award of the year for crashing a new Viper at over 150 mph on the main straight-away of a race track with no other cars around. And when asked how he managed that, he replied: “I’m not really sure. The last thing I remember was day-dreaming about becoming a race car driver and then I ran off the track and crashed”.… Daydreaming in a Viper at 150 mph….. Mmmmmm.





From green light to impact, it took less than 30 seconds to turn this $350,000 Ferrari into a pile of junk.

So no matter what your driving experience or whose payroll you are on Tanner Faust, fellow automotive writers, journalists and associates, - we salute you for your unbiased “fair and balanced” evaluations, “over the top” witty rhetoric, highly technical analysis and we encourage you to keep your fans and readers with single digit IQ’s – buffaloed and mesmerized.

DSOM Z06

Sounds like a pile of cr*p from a Viper owner to me, but who am I to judge??

PewterFRC

Wow - I got several lines into it, then had to quit. Is there any point to it? Seems like a ton of drivel...

04_Z06_CE

waaaaaaaaaaaay too long dude...gimme some cliff notes...

Sammgb

Someone's got WAY too much time on their hands... Got about 1/4 of the way through and knew where it was going after the rant about the paint.

SnoopyCool

That was pretty bad... talk about conveniently avoiding facts and odd comparisons (correct me if I'm wrong, the $60k additive is to keep the carbon fiber from fading, and you only need a few drops, right?).
It sounded like it was a personal opinion from a truck driver (or do they prefer the term 'toy hauler' now?)... I know I always trust my local road warrior to tell me how to spend my money.

Vipers are great cars, but the owners have this very odd need to tell everyone else what great cars they have and that Corvettes aren't any good because... I'm not really sure... they're reliable, maybe? Less expensive? Who knows. You'd think they'd focus on cars that share the same 'exclusivity' when trying to make themselves feel better about their purchases.

slappy3347

Cliff's notes please??

Landru

Honestly, now.
WTH would [any]one expect the Viper crowd to say?

People want to buy a Viper?
I say, knock yourself out.

gonzalezfj

Give the Viper crowd a break. They KNOW that their precious car is history as soon as King Obama gets his ducks in a row.

One last BS hurrah for them!!! I can live with it knowing that, come 2010, we won't have to listen to their BS any more.

Frank Gonzalez

arctic74vette

Probably the most over used word in the english language, but that was gay.

beden1

While reading that load of crap, I was just thinking about how great it is to have a ZO6, as I don't have to justify it to anybody including myself.

WFO

Holy cow...Are my eyes rolling to the back of my head? I think they are..help me I'm dribbling. I can't take anymore drivel. Way too much reading. Who has the time man?

Look, the verbiage slant placed on something to make anything look good or bad is always going to be there.

joe11204

Here you go.


According to Herber Guy:


CLIFF NOTES

(1) The Almighty Viper is scrumtralescent!
(2) Corvettes are crap, especially the paint!
(3) He doesn't like Tanner Faust!


.

ZL-1

Its sad to see a guy embarass himself like that. Now the world knows how misinformed he is on so many levels. Starting with the spelling of Lamborghini, then misinformation about Corvette paint, it goes downhill from there...

blazeone

from a former 2008 Z06 owner

J HEBERT

Wow! I always try to STOP the spread of mass-mis-information. This guy pours it on like niagra falls. Must be an Obama supporter seeking "economic justice" when he needs an education instead (free by the way)

andy82

Good summary on the article

TapOut

haljensen

Don't waste your time reading past the 2nd paragraph. He shows his total ignorance there. No Corvette uses colored gel coat, all are painted with a multi coat paint (just like a Viper). The UV additive is just for the unpainted Carbon Fiber sections.

McMung

TL;DR