View Poll Results: If you have had catastrophic engine failure or a dropped valve: please check one
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[Z06] Poll on LS7's with dropped valves or catastrophic engine failure
06-27-2010, 06:54 PM
#41
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Hi redZ06bri .........[I'll start by saying the car was never 'Tracked' by me or the Previous owner who was a 'businessman'] so..........'Let Go'.....OK I went out for a half hours run round the Block just for the Pleasure of it......driving and accelerating 'Briskly' between the Gears I was on a straight bit of Road I had exited a roundabout about by 1/2 mile and was heading towards another Mini Roundabout coming up in say 1/2 mile as I changed into 4th and applied the throttle [perfectly Blended clutch and throttle ie: it was not a missed gear and soaring Rev's that some ts are trying to claim as a reason... I was applying Power when I heard a Massive and continuous ....... BHRRRRRRR! Looking out the rear Hatch it Looked like a World War 2 Spitfire that had been shot down a 'Con Trail' of Bluey White Smoke [or a Formula one car Blowing it's Engine at Full Chat!]
I heard two seperate 'ting's' Like a Guitar Struck behind the Frett Board and that was it I was now heading for the roundabout and had no choice but to negotiate it as I hardly dared Brake with all the Fluids on the rears as it Happens I still spun to face oncoming traffic but fortunately Harmlessly..........This was caused by a Fault in the cars Engine.
Nothing in a Pleasure Drive like that in a Sports Car of any Marque would Cause that.
I am 58 and have been Driving for 40 years from early Lotus Europas... Elans.... and Esprits thru to Ferrari and Porsche [and two other Vettes] I say this to Clarify this is not 'User Error' This is a Specific Fault on this LS7 Engine.
I heard two seperate 'ting's' Like a Guitar Struck behind the Frett Board and that was it I was now heading for the roundabout and had no choice but to negotiate it as I hardly dared Brake with all the Fluids on the rears as it Happens I still spun to face oncoming traffic but fortunately Harmlessly..........This was caused by a Fault in the cars Engine.
Nothing in a Pleasure Drive like that in a Sports Car of any Marque would Cause that.
I am 58 and have been Driving for 40 years from early Lotus Europas... Elans.... and Esprits thru to Ferrari and Porsche [and two other Vettes] I say this to Clarify this is not 'User Error' This is a Specific Fault on this LS7 Engine.
The worrisome thing to me is that in addition to exhaust valves, there have been rocker arms bearing problems, oiling problems in high G turns, and who knows what else. So in other words, what engine part gave up the ghost ?
06-27-2010, 07:20 PM
#42
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redZ06bri It was an Exhaust Valve [They would'nt really comment on which one or elaborate further].......Causing Catastrophic Failure....My Dealership where very Cagey they showed me the Inlet Manifold......that was 'strewn' with Pea sized Nuggets of Aluminium and a Box of Assorted size Nuggets and Bit and Pieces.......So because the car was towed to them over 100 miles away they had no contact with me 'at all' ......so it was quite worrying time not knowing what was going on....The Service Manager was 'never available'....they just got on and fixed it to the Highest standard .........Fully steam cleaning every Immortal thing and Valeting the car............Apart from the Shiny new Engine you would never Know it had happened it's Cleaner now than it was before and it is running like a Swiss Watch.....fair Play ....but I did'nt get to find out much as I say there was a secrecy about it .....No new paperwork was given just 20ks worth of work under warranty. And them asking me to please not Publisise it as I had intended to Praise them for their work which was Excellent........
06-27-2010, 07:35 PM
#43
Safety Car
In response to several inquiry are as follows:
First Motor:
1. First and foremost: IMO, engines just like most parts in my car are consumables. That said, I feel that I got LOT of used from both of my motor (really beat on in the track & even on street).
2. First failure was on the stock hollow sodium field exhaust valve. From Summer of '06 to fall of '08. ~40 track days (RR) & total of 17,xxx miles. First 14k miles, car only had KB CAI & tune. I then added the cam & headers after 14k miles & then lost the motor at 17,xxx miles.
3. It happened in the track going from 2nd to 3rd gear. Not a mis-shift at all. It tore up the stock pistons & hairline crack on block sleeve. Crank & conn rods were fine. (exhaust valve#2)
2nd motor (build objective was more durable rather than hp/tq. Dyno'd at 550 hp 500 tq. Forged bottom plus all the usual goodies in the heads like crowler rockers, etc...
1. 20k miles on the motor and 18 track days.
2. It happened with me going ~150+ mph & was waiting for close to redline before shifting but before I could shift to 5th, it blew.
3. This time was on stainless steel exhaust valve. Tore up the block, conn rod & piston (exhaust valve #2). Not sure if its a coincidence re: exhaust valve #2 braking.
To those who were suggesting driver error, yes. That is a possibility. But that did not happened to me. At any rate, I believe we just have to take extra precaution. As i mentioned before, I was already planning on tearing it down at 15k miles to check & refresh but delayed it cuz of lack of funds. There's no way around it guys. You play you pay! I enjoyed every mile! Was disappointed that I lost the motor sure. But just have to work, save $ for the next motor.
First Motor:
1. First and foremost: IMO, engines just like most parts in my car are consumables. That said, I feel that I got LOT of used from both of my motor (really beat on in the track & even on street).
2. First failure was on the stock hollow sodium field exhaust valve. From Summer of '06 to fall of '08. ~40 track days (RR) & total of 17,xxx miles. First 14k miles, car only had KB CAI & tune. I then added the cam & headers after 14k miles & then lost the motor at 17,xxx miles.
3. It happened in the track going from 2nd to 3rd gear. Not a mis-shift at all. It tore up the stock pistons & hairline crack on block sleeve. Crank & conn rods were fine. (exhaust valve#2)
2nd motor (build objective was more durable rather than hp/tq. Dyno'd at 550 hp 500 tq. Forged bottom plus all the usual goodies in the heads like crowler rockers, etc...
1. 20k miles on the motor and 18 track days.
2. It happened with me going ~150+ mph & was waiting for close to redline before shifting but before I could shift to 5th, it blew.
3. This time was on stainless steel exhaust valve. Tore up the block, conn rod & piston (exhaust valve #2). Not sure if its a coincidence re: exhaust valve #2 braking.
To those who were suggesting driver error, yes. That is a possibility. But that did not happened to me. At any rate, I believe we just have to take extra precaution. As i mentioned before, I was already planning on tearing it down at 15k miles to check & refresh but delayed it cuz of lack of funds. There's no way around it guys. You play you pay! I enjoyed every mile! Was disappointed that I lost the motor sure. But just have to work, save $ for the next motor.
I'm going to guess you have a stock oiling system?
06-27-2010, 07:36 PM
#44
Guest
Posts: n/a
redZ06bri It was an Exhaust Valve [They would'nt really comment on which one or elaborate further].......Causing Catastrophic Failure....My Dealership where very Cagey they showed me the Inlet Manifold......that was 'strewn' with Pea sized Nuggets of Aluminium and a Box of Assorted size Nuggets and Bit and Pieces.......So because the car was towed to them over 100 miles away they had no contact with me 'at all' ......so it was quite worrying time not knowing what was going on....The Service Manager was 'never available'....they just got on and fixed it to the Highest standard .........Fully steam cleaning every Immortal thing and Valeting the car............Apart from the Shiny new Engine you would never Know it had happened it's Cleaner now than it was before and it is running like a Swiss Watch.....fair Play ....but I did'nt get to find out much as I say there was a secrecy about it .....No new paperwork was given just 20ks worth of work under warranty. And them asking me to please not Publisise it as I had intended to Praise them for their work which was Excellent........
Here is a crazy thought, does anyone think the dramatic decrease in Z06 production in 2009 and 2010 could be due to this problem ? Perhaps they don't want to have to warranty a bunch more LS7s and want to quietly replace them with ZR1 and GS ? Just a thought.
06-27-2010, 08:38 PM
#45
Drifting
2nd motor: Upgraded to stage 2 ARE dry sump. No issues with both track & street fluid temps. Use Mobil 1 15/50 (track) & 5/30 on the street.
06-27-2010, 10:28 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
Eh, I find it disconcerting that this poll even exists. You don't see this with the 8.4L Vipers. You don't see this with the GT500's. You don't see this with other 500+hp cars, is my point. Sure, you may see it span 1-2 years, but not half a decade. Other car-companies FIX the problems. GM requires government angst (Japanese government in one case) to get off their ****. Sorry, I am just disconcerted and am at the point where I would rather save a few K and buy a GT500 and do a few mods, or spend a few K more and get a Viper. The 'vette is a bargain and it sure is pretty, but I want something sans horror-story.
06-27-2010, 11:17 PM
#47
Le Mans Master
Eh, I find it disconcerting that this poll even exists. You don't see this with the 8.4L Vipers. You don't see this with the GT500's. You don't see this with other 500+hp cars, is my point. Sure, you may see it span 1-2 years, but not half a decade. Other car-companies FIX the problems. GM requires government angst (Japanese government in one case) to get off their ****. Sorry, I am just disconcerted and am at the point where I would rather save a few K and buy a GT500 and do a few mods, or spend a few K more and get a Viper. The 'vette is a bargain and it sure is pretty, but I want something sans horror-story.
06-27-2010, 11:25 PM
#48
Le Mans Master
Eh, I find it disconcerting that this poll even exists. You don't see this with the 8.4L Vipers. You don't see this with the GT500's. You don't see this with other 500+hp cars, is my point. Sure, you may see it span 1-2 years, but not half a decade. Other car-companies FIX the problems. GM requires government angst (Japanese government in one case) to get off their ****. Sorry, I am just disconcerted and am at the point where I would rather save a few K and buy a GT500 and do a few mods, or spend a few K more and get a Viper. The 'vette is a bargain and it sure is pretty, but I want something sans horror-story.
06-27-2010, 11:37 PM
#49
Le Mans Master
GT500=550bhp=1G+ skidpad
Z06-505bhp=1.03-5g skidpad
8.4L Viper=600bhp=1.04-5g skidpad
GT500=50K
Z06=75K
Viper=90K
Most vipers are garage-queens and a lot get sold in a year or so. That puts them below new Z06 prices at less than a year old/less than 5K miles in most cases. I would rather have a pre-owned car that I can trust than a new car that has a bad reputation for falling apart.
Z06-505bhp=1.03-5g skidpad
8.4L Viper=600bhp=1.04-5g skidpad
GT500=50K
Z06=75K
Viper=90K
Most vipers are garage-queens and a lot get sold in a year or so. That puts them below new Z06 prices at less than a year old/less than 5K miles in most cases. I would rather have a pre-owned car that I can trust than a new car that has a bad reputation for falling apart.
Last edited by BSSN; 06-27-2010 at 11:39 PM.
06-27-2010, 11:52 PM
#50
Racer
Eh, I find it disconcerting that this poll even exists. You don't see this with the 8.4L Vipers. You don't see this with the GT500's. You don't see this with other 500+hp cars, is my point.... Sorry, I am just disconcerted and am at the point where I would rather save a few K and buy a GT500 and do a few mods, or spend a few K more and get a Viper. The 'vette is a bargain and it sure is pretty, but I want something sans horror-story.
06-28-2010, 12:32 AM
#51
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St. Jude Donor '06
I'll say it again, ANY MECHANICAL object, including all engines, are going to have some small percentage of catastrophic failures, and this forum over blows and takes out of context the true reality of this situation, and London Bridge IS NOT FALLING DOWN, for the average C6 Z owner who drives his car on the streets and highways for 99.9% of its existence, who also does basic required maintenance on said vehicle.
That's my two cents worth and that's about all its worth!
06-28-2010, 01:01 AM
#52
Le Mans Master
Perhapse you can show me this rash of engine trouble Vipers are having?
I again googled for the GT500 engine failure. I don't know as much about the GT500's, but I have not heard of any issues--well, yes I have. Ford halted delivery of 2011's for a short time because the carrier bearings had issues. GM--take note.
The C6Z isn't the only car with problems--of course not. However, I have somehow missed other cars of this "caliber" generating so much issue with the driveline. Not since GM put a 4-cylinder rear-end under the F-body, anyway. Blew one of those up, too (in the driveway slowly backing up).
The 370Z has issues with overheating
The BMW 135i has issues overheating
The BMW M3 has issues with the HPFP
All of these are "simple". Ripping a valve in twain--not so much.
Last edited by BSSN; 06-28-2010 at 01:07 AM.
06-28-2010, 01:07 AM
#53
Drifting
Doesn't matter the make/brand of the engine. You beat/race on it, sooner or later it'll break. Specially with amateur like myself who doesn't have the funds to be pro-active to do preventative like the select few who does have the funds. Even then, things still breaks! That said, I was pleased with the way my stock motor performed. Actually more happy with the stock motor compared to my disappointed 2nd motor that was "supposedly" more "durable" cuz of the parts upgraded during build. I wasn't totally happy with the build motor but just gotta save $ for katech or will just keep it stock & get a gm crate.
06-28-2010, 01:09 AM
#54
Le Mans Master
Doesn't matter the make/brand of the engine. You beat/race on it, sooner or later it'll break. Specially with amateur like myself who doesn't have the funds to be pro-active to do preventative like the select few who does have the funds. Even then, things still breaks! That said, I was pleased with the way my stock motor performed. Actually more happy with the stock motor compared to my disappointed 2nd motor that was "supposedly" more "durable" cuz of the parts upgraded during build. I wasn't totally happy with the build motor but just gotta save $ for katech or will just keep it stock & get a gm crate.
06-28-2010, 09:10 AM
#57
Racer
Maybe my Google is broken, but I couldn't find a last-gen Viper engine failure story. Certainly not one where the rocker arms come apart and the valves fail enough to generate poll's. The only thing I found were earlier vipers having issues with oil-starvation when tracked due to the oil-pan design, which dodge modified each successive interation until the last gen when the issues were eliminated.
Perhapse you can show me this rash of engine trouble Vipers are having?
I again googled for the GT500 engine failure. I don't know as much about the GT500's, but I have not heard of any issues--well, yes I have. Ford halted delivery of 2011's for a short time because the carrier bearings had issues. GM--take note.
The C6Z isn't the only car with problems--of course not. However, I have somehow missed other cars of this "caliber" generating so much issue with the driveline. Not since GM put a 4-cylinder rear-end under the F-body, anyway. Blew one of those up, too (in the driveway slowly backing up).
The 370Z has issues with overheating
The BMW 135i has issues overheating
The BMW M3 has issues with the HPFP
All of these are "simple". Ripping a valve in twain--not so much.
Perhapse you can show me this rash of engine trouble Vipers are having?
I again googled for the GT500 engine failure. I don't know as much about the GT500's, but I have not heard of any issues--well, yes I have. Ford halted delivery of 2011's for a short time because the carrier bearings had issues. GM--take note.
The C6Z isn't the only car with problems--of course not. However, I have somehow missed other cars of this "caliber" generating so much issue with the driveline. Not since GM put a 4-cylinder rear-end under the F-body, anyway. Blew one of those up, too (in the driveway slowly backing up).
The 370Z has issues with overheating
The BMW 135i has issues overheating
The BMW M3 has issues with the HPFP
All of these are "simple". Ripping a valve in twain--not so much.
Last edited by Doc V.; 06-28-2010 at 01:15 PM.
06-28-2010, 11:49 AM
#58
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
From the Poll results "so far" it looks like having a Tune had no extra negative impact on catastrophic engine failure versus a stock tune. And those cars that had engine mods, Cam and tune showed only 2 failures.
So I do not feel as concerned about a non-stock tune.
Engine failure is more or less the luck of the draw.
I would also surmise that the percentage of those that had an engine failure that belong to this board is probably very high. I would imagine most if not all that had a catastrophic engine failure belong to the Z06 forum.
Total catastrophic engine failure represents less then a fraction of 1%.
So I do not feel as concerned about a non-stock tune.
Engine failure is more or less the luck of the draw.
I would also surmise that the percentage of those that had an engine failure that belong to this board is probably very high. I would imagine most if not all that had a catastrophic engine failure belong to the Z06 forum.
Total catastrophic engine failure represents less then a fraction of 1%.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 06-28-2010 at 11:58 AM.
06-28-2010, 12:49 PM
#59
Le Mans Master
GT500=550bhp=1G+ skidpad
Z06-505bhp=1.03-5g skidpad
8.4L Viper=600bhp=1.04-5g skidpad
GT500=50K
Z06=75K
Viper=90K
Most vipers are garage-queens and a lot get sold in a year or so. That puts them below new Z06 prices at less than a year old/less than 5K miles in most cases. I would rather have a pre-owned car that I can trust than a new car that has a bad reputation for falling apart.
Z06-505bhp=1.03-5g skidpad
8.4L Viper=600bhp=1.04-5g skidpad
GT500=50K
Z06=75K
Viper=90K
Most vipers are garage-queens and a lot get sold in a year or so. That puts them below new Z06 prices at less than a year old/less than 5K miles in most cases. I would rather have a pre-owned car that I can trust than a new car that has a bad reputation for falling apart.
06-30-2010, 12:17 PM
#60
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
Statistics so far :
There have been 1082 viewers of this poll as of the moment I write this reply.
There have been 18 engines that have had catastrophic failure.
*This represents about 1.6% engine failure rate assuming all 1082 that viewed the post and of those 1082 those with catastrophic failure actually voted.
There have been 10 of those that are totally stock that have had catastrophic engine failure (No Tune and No Mod)
*This represents slightly less the 1% engine failure rate assuming all 1082 that viewed the post and of those 1082 those with catastrophic failure voted.
*It seems a tune has no impact on engine failure as there are more failures on stock tunes then there are tuned motors - this statement would assume half the viewers of the poll have tunes and half still remain with the stock tune.
1% engine failure rate or 1 in 100 - seems pretty high.
This should make the folks from GM that monitor our forum take notice.
There have been 1082 viewers of this poll as of the moment I write this reply.
There have been 18 engines that have had catastrophic failure.
*This represents about 1.6% engine failure rate assuming all 1082 that viewed the post and of those 1082 those with catastrophic failure actually voted.
There have been 10 of those that are totally stock that have had catastrophic engine failure (No Tune and No Mod)
*This represents slightly less the 1% engine failure rate assuming all 1082 that viewed the post and of those 1082 those with catastrophic failure voted.
*It seems a tune has no impact on engine failure as there are more failures on stock tunes then there are tuned motors - this statement would assume half the viewers of the poll have tunes and half still remain with the stock tune.
1% engine failure rate or 1 in 100 - seems pretty high.
This should make the folks from GM that monitor our forum take notice.
Last edited by Mr. Gizmo; 06-30-2010 at 12:22 PM.