[Z06] trying to squeeze every little bit of HP N/A any suggestion?
11-11-2010, 07:41 PM
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trying to squeeze every little bit of HP N/A any suggestion?
Ok so here it is. The vette makes 585rwhp and I'm used to it. it's not quite enough. I want a lil more however I can get it. I'm gonna do the fast big mouth 102 intake manifold and TB. I'll feel better just getting in the 600 ateast N/A. I feel like theirs more I can do to release some ponies from underneath the hood but I wanted to get some ideas. any one have any suggestions? I have the basics cold air,headers w/x pipe, head work and cam. what else can I do to squeeze some more power out of her n/a if possible to atleast get me into the six hundred number??what kind of numbers are you guys seeing from the intake manifold and tb ported vs not ported?
11-11-2010, 08:40 PM
#2
Racer
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What compression ratio are you running? You may be able to increase that. You should be able to get to 12.5:1 or so on 93 octane. You can also look into an electric water pump. That may pick up 10 or 12 to the wheels.
...or make the switch to e85. Pretty sure you would be able to increase compression to around 13.5:1 or so and gain roughly 30 to 40 wheel.
Others will chime in to verify.
Anthony
...or make the switch to e85. Pretty sure you would be able to increase compression to around 13.5:1 or so and gain roughly 30 to 40 wheel.
Others will chime in to verify.
Anthony
11-11-2010, 09:05 PM
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I have 12.26:1 compression on 93 octane And my heads have been cnc ported and polished by texas-speed. Just how reliable are the electric water pumps? Would c16 or e85 help the way i am now with a seperate tune for that aplication?I mean im sure it would but would it be a considerable amount?
11-11-2010, 09:09 PM
#4
Melting Slicks
You are fighting an uphill battle at this point trying to squeeze out the last few ponies from your setup. If you are really THAT in need of more power, stop wasting your time and put a blower on it. An extra 15 horses will not be something that will make a difference to your driving experience if you are really hungry for more power...
11-11-2010, 09:43 PM
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I been wanting to do a 100 shot for a while but I get mixed feelings about it. From what i understand im really pushing the motor to it's limits and nitrous inparticular happens to be pretty aggressive so it not recommended.
11-12-2010, 02:41 AM
#9
Supercharging may give you more HP at the expense of weight.
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
Last edited by blaine123; 11-12-2010 at 02:55 AM.
11-12-2010, 03:25 AM
#10
Drifting
That is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing Ive ever read. The Z06's weight will never be an issue compared to other cars. Just try finding a car in the last ten years that weighs less then an 06. With 200 more lbs, the ZR1 seems to be doing fine... or rather killing almost everything.
11-12-2010, 03:54 AM
#11
That is, quite possibly, the dumbest thing Ive ever read. The Z06's weight will never be an issue compared to other cars. Just try finding a car in the last ten years that weighs less then an 06. With 200 more lbs, the ZR1 seems to be doing fine... or rather killing almost everything.
The ZR1 actually even though it has 130 more HP is only a few tenths faster.... so YES the weight affects it.
And because the Z06 is light already is WHY it is faster than say the VIPER with equal HP. The weight advantage of the Z06 is what gives it the edge over the other cars with similar HP levels.... why would you NOT want to increase that EDGE by making the Z06 lighter?
So you think that if you decrease the weight of the Z06 more it won't be faster.
If the ZR1 was 200 lbs lighter is wouldn't just beat the competition... it would DESTROY it. GM knows this to.. and is why they added some lightweight parts to the ZR1 to make up for the weight of the supercharger as much as they could without increasing the price of the ZR1 anymore. They dont' use Carbon Fiber just for looks.Speed is a simple Physics concept. To go faster you can:
A. Increase Power
B. Decrease Weight
C. Decrease resistance aka drag
After you did all you can to increase A. Then you move on to B.
Last edited by blaine123; 11-12-2010 at 04:06 AM.
11-12-2010, 05:52 AM
#12
Le Mans Master
You failed physics didn't you?
The ZR1 actually even though it has 130 more HP is only a few tenths faster.... so YES the weight affects it.
And because the Z06 is light already is WHY it is faster than say the VIPER with equal HP. The weight advantage of the Z06 is what gives it the edge over the other cars with similar HP levels.... why would you NOT want to increase that EDGE by making the Z06 lighter?
So you think that if you decrease the weight of the Z06 more it won't be faster. If the ZR1 was 200 lbs lighter is wouldn't just beat the competition... it would DESTROY it. GM knows this to.. and is why they added some lightweight parts to the ZR1 to make up for the weight of the supercharger as much as they could without increasing the price of the ZR1 anymore. They dont' use Carbon Fiber just for looks.
Speed is a simple Physics concept. To go faster you can:
A. Increase Power
B. Decrease Weight
C. Decrease resistance aka drag
After you did all you can to increase A. Then you move on to B.
The ZR1 actually even though it has 130 more HP is only a few tenths faster.... so YES the weight affects it.
And because the Z06 is light already is WHY it is faster than say the VIPER with equal HP. The weight advantage of the Z06 is what gives it the edge over the other cars with similar HP levels.... why would you NOT want to increase that EDGE by making the Z06 lighter?
So you think that if you decrease the weight of the Z06 more it won't be faster.
If the ZR1 was 200 lbs lighter is wouldn't just beat the competition... it would DESTROY it. GM knows this to.. and is why they added some lightweight parts to the ZR1 to make up for the weight of the supercharger as much as they could without increasing the price of the ZR1 anymore. They dont' use Carbon Fiber just for looks.Speed is a simple Physics concept. To go faster you can:
A. Increase Power
B. Decrease Weight
C. Decrease resistance aka drag
After you did all you can to increase A. Then you move on to B.
You weight loss list would be negligible in the 1/4 and cost much more than adding a little hp. We won't get into unsprung vs sprung weight and that whole debate.
It's much easier to add hp than drop weight! Much more cost effective too and lastly look at the fat portly GTR at 3700lbs+ the weight is killing it isn't it
11-12-2010, 06:48 AM
#13
It's much easier to add hp than drop weight! Much more cost effective too and lastly look at the fat portly GTR at 3700lbs+ the weight is killing it isn't it
It is easier to just toss on more horsepower. Why most people do it.. its CHEAPER. You can still add HP and loss weight just by being cautious of what parts you toss on. Not all the parts out there are equal. Just choose the lighter parts while you mod.
Do you choose Exhaust kit A that weights 54lbs or Exhaust kit B that weights 22lbs?
Do you choose Wheel A that weighs 15lbs or Wheel B that weighs 29 lbs?
Do you choose Clutch A that weights 55lbs or the Clutch B that weighs 30lbs.
His post was HOW TO go faster N/A...... you can only go to around 600-640 rwhp N/A and still be drivable on a 427. The ONLY option is weight reduction or not be N/A.
11-12-2010, 06:58 AM
#14
Drifting
Here is your awnser. 15 rwhp is irrelevant at this level, and would feel the same.
Another option is gearing. I run 3.73 gears and had 5th and 6th changed so it pulls hard up top. Feels dramaticly better than stock gearing.
Another option is gearing. I run 3.73 gears and had 5th and 6th changed so it pulls hard up top. Feels dramaticly better than stock gearing.
11-12-2010, 08:12 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
Blaine123...I'll have to agree with you 100%...one of several reasons I've decided to totally change my mind on the next set of mods for the Z. Not to mention how adding the weight and extra heat from SC'ing will change the balance and original design/purpose of our Z06's...not to say the extra HP and TQ isn't a plus for "top speed" but I'll take a light weight, high HP N/A set up any day...keepin' it simple. Might be more $$ in the long run over installing a SC for dyno #'s but on the street or track a good running, high HP n/a Z06 is VERY impressive. JMO...
Supercharging may give you more HP at the expense of weight.
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
11-12-2010, 08:50 AM
#16
Melting Slicks
Anyone who thinks a NW 102TB is gunna get them 24 rwhp is destine to be very disappointed...in fact if that new 102TB provides any measurable increase in power you're doing well.
As for weight reduction, a few things:
1) If you go to LT headers AND a full titanium exhaust, without cats, you will save 50 lbs, not sure how anyone would manage to save 60 lbs over the stock exhaust.
2) If you have stock split 5-spoke painted wheels, there are only a couple aftermarket wheel options which will not ADD weight, and those options at best will only save a total of 10-15 lbs. And, if you're gunna run real street tires (non-runflats) about the most weight you can save compared to the GY RFs is 10 lbs...so how anyone would save 66 lbs on a set or wheels/tires is completely beyond me (maybe if you start with a ZR1 and use 18" EV1s all around and Cup Sport tires).
3) About the only way you have of saving more than 5 lbs on a hood is to spend $4000 or so on Jim Hall's new hood.
4) If you manage to save 41 lbs on a clutch it would mean your clutch/flywheel weigh in at 15 lbs, not only is that impossible but if it were, you'd never get the car moving from a stop without using huge rpm.
5) If you manage to save 25 lbs on the battery, this means you have something that weighs 10 lbs, so while it might start the car when the battery is new and you haven't left the driver's door open for more than 15 minutes, it ain't gunna do so after about a year of use.
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm completely with the whole weight loss thing (my car weighs 2920) it's just that it's not nearly as easy as most seem to think. Also, there's a lot of good mods you need or should do which ADD weight...aerodynamics, tunnel plate, better cooling (oil and water), increase oil capacity, steal-braided lines, etc.
Cheers, Paul.
As for weight reduction, a few things:
1) If you go to LT headers AND a full titanium exhaust, without cats, you will save 50 lbs, not sure how anyone would manage to save 60 lbs over the stock exhaust.
2) If you have stock split 5-spoke painted wheels, there are only a couple aftermarket wheel options which will not ADD weight, and those options at best will only save a total of 10-15 lbs. And, if you're gunna run real street tires (non-runflats) about the most weight you can save compared to the GY RFs is 10 lbs...so how anyone would save 66 lbs on a set or wheels/tires is completely beyond me (maybe if you start with a ZR1 and use 18" EV1s all around and Cup Sport tires).
3) About the only way you have of saving more than 5 lbs on a hood is to spend $4000 or so on Jim Hall's new hood.
4) If you manage to save 41 lbs on a clutch it would mean your clutch/flywheel weigh in at 15 lbs, not only is that impossible but if it were, you'd never get the car moving from a stop without using huge rpm.
5) If you manage to save 25 lbs on the battery, this means you have something that weighs 10 lbs, so while it might start the car when the battery is new and you haven't left the driver's door open for more than 15 minutes, it ain't gunna do so after about a year of use.
Now don't get me wrong here, I'm completely with the whole weight loss thing (my car weighs 2920) it's just that it's not nearly as easy as most seem to think. Also, there's a lot of good mods you need or should do which ADD weight...aerodynamics, tunnel plate, better cooling (oil and water), increase oil capacity, steal-braided lines, etc.
Cheers, Paul.
Last edited by MTIRC6Z; 11-12-2010 at 08:55 AM.
11-12-2010, 09:03 AM
#17
Safety Car
Yeah yeah weight matters I've read the book. The OP obviously cares far more about straightline speed than the twisties and that is the only place you will be feeling 100lbs off the car.
You weight loss list would be negligible in the 1/4 and cost much more than adding a little hp. We won't get into unsprung vs sprung weight and that whole debate.
It's much easier to add hp than drop weight! Much more cost effective too and lastly look at the fat portly GTR at 3700lbs+ the weight is killing it isn't it
You weight loss list would be negligible in the 1/4 and cost much more than adding a little hp. We won't get into unsprung vs sprung weight and that whole debate.
It's much easier to add hp than drop weight! Much more cost effective too and lastly look at the fat portly GTR at 3700lbs+ the weight is killing it isn't it
And every 100 pounds dropped is like adding 10 horsepower. Yes, that works in a straight line.
11-12-2010, 09:08 AM
#18
Racer
Member Since: Apr 2010
Location: Rochester NY
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Well seems like the OP and I are on the same boat...keeping the car N/A. There are people out there that are addicted to boost, and then there are the ones that love the raw power, torque, and sound of a 7 liter naturally aspirated motor. Which is why I am on my way to the 600 RWHP N/A goal as well.
With that being said, I do think that weight reduction is a good idea. Pay particular attention to rotating mass. It is a killer. Go with lightweight 2-piece rotors, lightweight race wheels, CF drive shaft, etc. You will notice a huge difference from this, on the straights and on the curves.
I also think the OP would really benefit from switching over to e85. Obviously, it has to be practical to each person. If the nearest e85 station is 100 miles from your home, we all know thats not going to work. But if it is readily available in the OP's area, it could be a huge benefit. I know WeaponsGradeTorque just made the switch on his LPE car and, if I remember correctly, is putting down around 630 to the wheels.
Some food for thought...
With that being said, I do think that weight reduction is a good idea. Pay particular attention to rotating mass. It is a killer. Go with lightweight 2-piece rotors, lightweight race wheels, CF drive shaft, etc. You will notice a huge difference from this, on the straights and on the curves.
I also think the OP would really benefit from switching over to e85. Obviously, it has to be practical to each person. If the nearest e85 station is 100 miles from your home, we all know thats not going to work. But if it is readily available in the OP's area, it could be a huge benefit. I know WeaponsGradeTorque just made the switch on his LPE car and, if I remember correctly, is putting down around 630 to the wheels.
Some food for thought...
11-12-2010, 09:53 AM
#19
Team Owner
Saying a blower isn't worth it because it adds weight is funny. If you add 150lbs, but gain 150hp, believe me, it will be a lot faster.
11-12-2010, 10:07 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
Supercharging may give you more HP at the expense of weight.
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
Your forgetting the #1 variable of SPEED. The one which motors running superchargers and turbos forget about------------> WEIGHT Without the Z06's lightweight.. we are no better than a GT500.
Drop about 200 lbs+ off your car and it will feel like you put a turbo on it.
Start with the basics: ( using the lightest parts available to the public)
1. Light weight brake rotors....(-32lbs)
2. Light Weight clutch............ (-41lbs) -73lbs
3. Light Weight Seats.............(-20lbs) -93lbs
4. Light Weight Wheels/tires..(-66lbs) -159lbs
5. CF Driveshaft......................(-4.5lbs) -163.5lbs
6. CF Hood..............................(-10lbs) -173 lbs
7. Headers/mid/Cat back....... (-60lbs) -233 lbs
8. Battery................................(-25lbs) -258lbs
.....I can keep going, but you get the idea, but 300 lbs of weight loss can be obtained, but it wont be cheap. -200 lbs can be obtained at a moderate price.
600RWHP + 2872lb Z06 = ROCKET SHIP
Weight loss improves EVERYTHING: handling/acceleration/MPG
Once you obtain a light weight and thats still not enough? Always NOS.
Every pound counts. Lamborghini charges 35k+ for a new edition with 100lbs of reduced weight.... theres a reason for it....and why they just don't add a turbo or supercharger.
Also why you don't see 200lb F1 drivers....
All the weights you need to know are here:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...ight-list.html
I think its funny you guys are disagreeing with him. You cant beat the laws of physics:
F=m*a
Lower your mass, and you'll have a faster car immediately. It doesn't matter if its straightline or in the corners. I don't see the opposing argument against this.
Even if you just did a couple things he mentioned: rotors, seats, battery, clutch, etc that's nearly 150-200lbs off the car.
Another thing people don't consider is if you laid off the cheesburgers.. there's some automatic weight reduction. My 130lb *** in your car will go faster theoretically.
Last edited by mammoth713; 11-12-2010 at 10:10 AM.
