[Z06] LS7 with a flat plane crank?
07-02-2011, 07:25 PM
#41
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My understanding is that a 90' is a cross plane, and 180' is flat plane.
You can't have a 90' flat plane. The name comes from looking at it end on end, and the cross thats seen due to the layout.
You can't have a 90' flat plane. The name comes from looking at it end on end, and the cross thats seen due to the layout.
Here's a question. If you had a 90 degree flat plane crank V8, would the crankshaft essentially be the same configuration as a cross plane straight 8?
Also, while the 180 degree header does sound interesting, it still doesn't have that flat plane sound (but then again, it's hard to tell what something sounds like in real life until you hear it in person).
Also, while the 180 degree header does sound interesting, it still doesn't have that flat plane sound (but then again, it's hard to tell what something sounds like in real life until you hear it in person).
07-02-2011, 07:32 PM
#42
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At this point I'm researching the pro's and con's.
I'm coming into my first Z06, having owned before hand cars like Mitsi EVO 6.5, and a Nissan R34 GT-R, so a different form of performance, where its equivalent power, but with very instant throttle response compared to similar powered V8's that I've driven.
I'm looking at how to get a balance of both worlds, and to me, thats looking into the potential of a flatplane, ITB's, LS7 engine. In the end all the numbers may stack up that it doesn't make sense from a power point of view, but I do like the aspect of having something different too.
I'm not interested in 800HP engines, as I know better about how I drive both on and off the track. Having a fast response 500ATW-600HP engine would more than make me smile.
Also from what I've seen, massive amounts of torque can make things interesting getting off the line, powering out of corners etc etc.
Smoothing things out a little, and giving me power progressively, and faster responding, as I work the throttle ( which is how a lot of euro flat plane V8's work, just smaller capacity ), does I think, give me a lot of advantages over standard V8's out there.
I'm coming into my first Z06, having owned before hand cars like Mitsi EVO 6.5, and a Nissan R34 GT-R, so a different form of performance, where its equivalent power, but with very instant throttle response compared to similar powered V8's that I've driven.
I'm looking at how to get a balance of both worlds, and to me, thats looking into the potential of a flatplane, ITB's, LS7 engine. In the end all the numbers may stack up that it doesn't make sense from a power point of view, but I do like the aspect of having something different too.
I'm not interested in 800HP engines, as I know better about how I drive both on and off the track. Having a fast response 500ATW-600HP engine would more than make me smile.
Also from what I've seen, massive amounts of torque can make things interesting getting off the line, powering out of corners etc etc.
Smoothing things out a little, and giving me power progressively, and faster responding, as I work the throttle ( which is how a lot of euro flat plane V8's work, just smaller capacity ), does I think, give me a lot of advantages over standard V8's out there.
07-02-2011, 07:37 PM
#43
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I think you'll find that much like Audi having to change back to cross plane from experimenting in flatplane in its racing class, NASCAR is also restricted by being race what you build mentality. To make everything equal, there are base components that need to be similar to the production line.
Audi had to change after going flatplane because it began to do so much better than everyone else, and it forced an absolute wording of the rules to be enforced. Audi was of the mind that flatplane was the same part as the cross plane, just 'twisted'. The governing body didn't the same way....
Audi had to change after going flatplane because it began to do so much better than everyone else, and it forced an absolute wording of the rules to be enforced. Audi was of the mind that flatplane was the same part as the cross plane, just 'twisted'. The governing body didn't the same way....
You're kidding me, right? NASCAR doesn't use a cross-plane crank because it works better, they use it because their I'm-so-drunk-I-can't-fish target audience wanted a 'racecar' that sounded like the low-revving, big block V8 their grandpa used to run moonshine in backwoods Arkansas. Every decision NASCAR makes is done in the interest of maintaining their low brow, beer swillin', tabaccy-chewin', trailer trash image. 
07-02-2011, 07:44 PM
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Pricing I have so far is from $2500 for 4340 billet, and $4500 for 4330 billet.
Cam is about $1000, and more for associated forged rods, pistons, springs etc ( which people do anyway when going down the FI route )
Now I know some people think that's expensive compared to 'normal' parts, which is true.
But, comparing that to smacking on showey rims(4000-5000), or SC's ( alot ), its pretty reasonable for having a more efficient, responding engine.
If you use lightweight forged parts, you wouldn't necessarily use balancing shafts. There's figures showing that a flat plane has four times the 'shaking' than a cross plane, but no one has said four times what force.
The shacking is from side to side, and Ive seen big cammed engines try to shake a car to pieces, and its just accepted that's the case.
So I'm just accepting its going to be the same with a flat plane, and maybe I'll have to strengthen the engine and gearbox mounts.
Speaking of free! If you get a .25M minimum order of flat plane cranks, you'd likely see a $2500 per unit rate... else it's gonna be mad expensive.
I'd be curious how one would even go about slapping balance shafts into the mix.
edit: IIRC, NASCAR experimented with flat-planes and well, there's a reason that "low brow non-exotic" engine still outclasses a heck of a lot of Euro engines.
Cam is about $1000, and more for associated forged rods, pistons, springs etc ( which people do anyway when going down the FI route )
Now I know some people think that's expensive compared to 'normal' parts, which is true.
But, comparing that to smacking on showey rims(4000-5000), or SC's ( alot ), its pretty reasonable for having a more efficient, responding engine.
If you use lightweight forged parts, you wouldn't necessarily use balancing shafts. There's figures showing that a flat plane has four times the 'shaking' than a cross plane, but no one has said four times what force.
The shacking is from side to side, and Ive seen big cammed engines try to shake a car to pieces, and its just accepted that's the case.
So I'm just accepting its going to be the same with a flat plane, and maybe I'll have to strengthen the engine and gearbox mounts.
Speaking of free! If you get a .25M minimum order of flat plane cranks, you'd likely see a $2500 per unit rate... else it's gonna be mad expensive.
I'd be curious how one would even go about slapping balance shafts into the mix.
edit: IIRC, NASCAR experimented with flat-planes and well, there's a reason that "low brow non-exotic" engine still outclasses a heck of a lot of Euro engines.
07-02-2011, 08:24 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
At this point I'm researching the pro's and con's.
I'm coming into my first Z06, having owned before hand cars like Mitsi EVO 6.5, and a Nissan R34 GT-R, so a different form of performance, where its equivalent power, but with very instant throttle response compared to similar powered V8's that I've driven.
I'm looking at how to get a balance of both worlds, and to me, thats looking into the potential of a flatplane, ITB's, LS7 engine. In the end all the numbers may stack up that it doesn't make sense from a power point of view, but I do like the aspect of having something different too.
I'm not interested in 800HP engines, as I know better about how I drive both on and off the track. Having a fast response 500ATW-600HP engine would more than make me smile.
Also from what I've seen, massive amounts of torque can make things interesting getting off the line, powering out of corners etc etc.
Smoothing things out a little, and giving me power progressively, and faster responding, as I work the throttle ( which is how a lot of euro flat plane V8's work, just smaller capacity ), does I think, give me a lot of advantages over standard V8's out there.
I'm coming into my first Z06, having owned before hand cars like Mitsi EVO 6.5, and a Nissan R34 GT-R, so a different form of performance, where its equivalent power, but with very instant throttle response compared to similar powered V8's that I've driven.
I'm looking at how to get a balance of both worlds, and to me, thats looking into the potential of a flatplane, ITB's, LS7 engine. In the end all the numbers may stack up that it doesn't make sense from a power point of view, but I do like the aspect of having something different too.
I'm not interested in 800HP engines, as I know better about how I drive both on and off the track. Having a fast response 500ATW-600HP engine would more than make me smile.
Also from what I've seen, massive amounts of torque can make things interesting getting off the line, powering out of corners etc etc.
Smoothing things out a little, and giving me power progressively, and faster responding, as I work the throttle ( which is how a lot of euro flat plane V8's work, just smaller capacity ), does I think, give me a lot of advantages over standard V8's out there.
If you use lightweight forged parts, you wouldn't necessarily use balancing shafts. There's figures showing that a flat plane has four times the 'shaking' than a cross plane, but no one has said four times what force.
The shacking is from side to side, and Ive seen big cammed engines try to shake a car to pieces, and its just accepted that's the case.
So I'm just accepting its going to be the same with a flat plane, and maybe I'll have to strengthen the engine and gearbox mounts.
The shacking is from side to side, and Ive seen big cammed engines try to shake a car to pieces, and its just accepted that's the case.
So I'm just accepting its going to be the same with a flat plane, and maybe I'll have to strengthen the engine and gearbox mounts.
If I were you, I'd have this dream engine you want to build analyzed on a computer simulation. It might save you a ton of money.
In track work I "think" this would mean when two comparable cars are powering out of a corner, the cross plane would have slightly more torque, which would equate to extra power, but its going to be accelerating slower that the flatplane, which has slightly less torque, but is climbing up in revs' faster.
Last edited by AirBusPilot; 07-02-2011 at 08:29 PM.
07-02-2011, 08:30 PM
#46
Le Mans Master
You're kidding me, right? NASCAR doesn't use a cross-plane crank because it works better, they use it because their I'm-so-drunk-I-can't-fish target audience wanted a 'racecar' that sounded like the low-revving, big block V8 their grandpa used to run moonshine in backwoods Arkansas. Every decision NASCAR makes is done in the interest of maintaining their low brow, beer swillin', tabaccy-chewin', trailer trash image.
07-02-2011, 08:42 PM
#47
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Yep driven them all. Two were mine, the other was a very well tuned Z06.
Its not the size of the engine thats gives the response, but how its setup internally and tuned.
GM LSx's are common place here, and as much as they have their fans, its inherently an inefficient design compared to a number of tuner engine that come out of Europe and japan.
The LS7 was good, and well setup, but my R34, which unlike the current R35 V6 3.8, is a straight line 6 2.6 litre twin turbo, was faster down the 1/4 mile, faster rolling from pretty much any speed to any speed, and faster responding engine.
Frankly, the LS7, albeit a great engine, not even close to the RB engine in response and power. There are 1000HP versions of the RB26DETT, using factory block, and we run 600HP+ in our street cars with mild tuning.
Watch this vid here, its shows a well tuned R34 ( I personally dont like the R35 at all, to much computing power driving, not hands and feet for me to take it seriously as a drivers car....dont get me wrong, its an amazing car, just not for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHRK5bJ6nPw - The drivers are two of the best to come out of japan, and have competed at the international level, including LeMans, with great success....so it might look like they're not brilliant the way the car is bucking around, but its because how fast the power delivery is.
If you want to see just how good...watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7rEFxUxxpU
Now thats driving!!
I want the LS7 version....not ultimate power...I want ultimate response. So looking at taking the standard LS7, and using my tuner knowledge to enhance it to what I know is overall a better package. Harrop ITB's, better exhaust, flat-plane with forged lightweight parts...the complete package.
All due respect, the stock LS7, is not at all a fast responding engine. It has lot of low down torque, but it takes a long time to get there.
Its not the size of the engine thats gives the response, but how its setup internally and tuned.
GM LSx's are common place here, and as much as they have their fans, its inherently an inefficient design compared to a number of tuner engine that come out of Europe and japan.
The LS7 was good, and well setup, but my R34, which unlike the current R35 V6 3.8, is a straight line 6 2.6 litre twin turbo, was faster down the 1/4 mile, faster rolling from pretty much any speed to any speed, and faster responding engine.
Frankly, the LS7, albeit a great engine, not even close to the RB engine in response and power. There are 1000HP versions of the RB26DETT, using factory block, and we run 600HP+ in our street cars with mild tuning.
Watch this vid here, its shows a well tuned R34 ( I personally dont like the R35 at all, to much computing power driving, not hands and feet for me to take it seriously as a drivers car....dont get me wrong, its an amazing car, just not for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHRK5bJ6nPw - The drivers are two of the best to come out of japan, and have competed at the international level, including LeMans, with great success....so it might look like they're not brilliant the way the car is bucking around, but its because how fast the power delivery is.
If you want to see just how good...watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7rEFxUxxpU
Now thats driving!!
I want the LS7 version....not ultimate power...I want ultimate response. So looking at taking the standard LS7, and using my tuner knowledge to enhance it to what I know is overall a better package. Harrop ITB's, better exhaust, flat-plane with forged lightweight parts...the complete package.
All due respect, the stock LS7, is not at all a fast responding engine. It has lot of low down torque, but it takes a long time to get there.
Last edited by SteveRiellyNZ; 07-02-2011 at 08:50 PM. Reason: Clean up my speeling :-)
07-02-2011, 08:44 PM
#48
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07-02-2011, 08:58 PM
#49
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Yep driven them all. Two were mine, the other was a very well tuned Z06.
Its not the size of the engine thats gives the response, but how its setup internally and tuned.
GM LSx's are common place here, and as much as they have their fans, its inherently an inefficient design compared to a number of tuner engine that come out of Europe and japan.
The LS7 was good, and well setup, but my R34, which unlike the current R35 V6 3.8, is a straight line 6 2.6 litre twin turbo, was faster down the 1/4 mile, faster rolling from pretty much any speed to any speed, and faster responding engine.
Frankly, the LS7, albeit a great engine, not even close to the RB engine in response and power. There are 1000HP versions of the RB26DETT, using factory block, and we run 600HP+ in our street cars with mild tuning.
Watch this vid here, its shows a well tuned R34 ( I personally dont like the R35 at all, to much computing power driving, not hands and feet for me to take it seriously as a drivers car....dont get me wrong, its an amazing car, just not for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHRK5bJ6nPw - The drivers are two of the best to come out of japan, and have competed at the international level, including LeMans, with great success....so it might look like they're not brilliant the way the car is bucking around, but its because how fast the power delivery is.
If you want to see just how good...watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7rEFxUxxpU
Now thats driving!!
I want the LS7 version....not ultimate power...I want ultimate response. So looking at taking the standard LS7, and using my tuner knowledge to enhance it to what I know is overall a better package. Harrop ITB's, better exhaust, flat-plane with forged lightweight parts...the complete package.
All due respect, the stock LS7, is not at all a fast responding engine. It has lot of low down torque, but it takes a long time to get there.
Its not the size of the engine thats gives the response, but how its setup internally and tuned.
GM LSx's are common place here, and as much as they have their fans, its inherently an inefficient design compared to a number of tuner engine that come out of Europe and japan.
The LS7 was good, and well setup, but my R34, which unlike the current R35 V6 3.8, is a straight line 6 2.6 litre twin turbo, was faster down the 1/4 mile, faster rolling from pretty much any speed to any speed, and faster responding engine.
Frankly, the LS7, albeit a great engine, not even close to the RB engine in response and power. There are 1000HP versions of the RB26DETT, using factory block, and we run 600HP+ in our street cars with mild tuning.
Watch this vid here, its shows a well tuned R34 ( I personally dont like the R35 at all, to much computing power driving, not hands and feet for me to take it seriously as a drivers car....dont get me wrong, its an amazing car, just not for me.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YHRK5bJ6nPw - The drivers are two of the best to come out of japan, and have competed at the international level, including LeMans, with great success....so it might look like they're not brilliant the way the car is bucking around, but its because how fast the power delivery is.
If you want to see just how good...watch this : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j7rEFxUxxpU
Now thats driving!!
I want the LS7 version....not ultimate power...I want ultimate response. So looking at taking the standard LS7, and using my tuner knowledge to enhance it to what I know is overall a better package. Harrop ITB's, better exhaust, flat-plane with forged lightweight parts...the complete package.
All due respect, the stock LS7, is not at all a fast responding engine. It has lot of low down torque, but it takes a long time to get there.
Also, you are comparing extremely modified, turbocharged engines to a stock LS7. Of course they are faster. Turbo supra's are the same when modified.
I not sure what you mean by an LS7 being not all that fast responding. Gearing plays a part in how fast it will rev, but acceleration is brutal no matter how you define "response". Stock for stock, it would destroy that car in that video. Modified, all bets are off.
07-02-2011, 09:02 PM
#50
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The flat plane crank will get you more horsepower than a cross plane if the exhaust tuning is done correctly (and that's a fairly easy thing to do experimentally or numerically if you have the right knowledge). Also a huge plenum with tunned runners and ITBs will make alot of power and not sacrifice response. Additionally, if two separate plenum volumes are used (one for each bank), a big cam can be installed that behaves a bit better than it would otherwise.
07-02-2011, 10:01 PM
#51
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Also, you are comparing extremely modified, turbocharged engines to a stock LS7. Of course they are faster. Turbo supra's are the same when modified.
I not sure what you mean by an LS7 being not all that fast responding. Gearing plays a part in how fast it will rev, but acceleration is brutal no matter how you define "response". Stock for stock, it would destroy that car in that video. Modified, all bets are off.
And yes although that Mines R34 is heavily modified, its gearing and acceleration is on par with its response. I've seen this car in action myself, and I do believe its been in the US on tracks...its extremely fast.
I've been around many tuned LSx engines, and seen them first hand too.
I'm comparing the factory RB engine, to the factory LS. I'm also comparing the tuned RB, to the tuned LSx. I'm looking at figures, dyno charts, first hand vids etc etc.
I realize there are many fans of the LSx engine that have their thoughts on how fast it is after driving them, however, few, if any of them, including many on this forum, have actually driven both on or off the track.
I have, so am able to factually state how they handle and perform. And Im across what is going to transfer across from one engine design to the other to enhance the package.
07-02-2011, 10:04 PM
#52
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Id love to see dyno figures...thats the one part of the equation that I'm missing.
Plenty of opinions on both sides, but no ones able to actually show me figures yet.
I'll be working on ITB's from harrop that they are designing now, each bank with its own cold air intake, and an appropriate exhaust manifold to suit.
Plenty of opinions on both sides, but no ones able to actually show me figures yet.
I'll be working on ITB's from harrop that they are designing now, each bank with its own cold air intake, and an appropriate exhaust manifold to suit.
The flat plane crank will get you more
horsepower than a cross plane if the exhaust tuning is done correctly (and that's a fairly easy thing to do experimentally or numerically if you have the right knowledge). Also a huge plenum with tunned runners and ITBs will make alot of power and not sacrifice response. Additionally, if two separate plenum volumes are used (one for each bank), a big cam can be installed that behaves a bit better than it would otherwise.
horsepower than a cross plane if the exhaust tuning is done correctly (and that's a fairly easy thing to do experimentally or numerically if you have the right knowledge). Also a huge plenum with tunned runners and ITBs will make alot of power and not sacrifice response. Additionally, if two separate plenum volumes are used (one for each bank), a big cam can be installed that behaves a bit better than it would otherwise.
07-02-2011, 11:23 PM
#53
Le Mans Master
My RB was far from modified, its was tuned with only the pod filters done.
And yes although that Mines R34 is heavily modified, its gearing and acceleration is on par with its response. I've seen this car in action myself, and I do believe its been in the US on tracks...its extremely fast.
I've been around many tuned LSx engines, and seen them first hand too.
I'm comparing the factory RB engine, to the factory LS. I'm also comparing the tuned RB, to the tuned LSx. I'm looking at figures, dyno charts, first hand vids etc etc.
I realize there are many fans of the LSx engine that have their thoughts on how fast it is after driving them, however, few, if any of them, including many on this forum, have actually driven both on or off the track.
I have, so am able to factually state how they handle and perform. And Im across what is going to transfer across from one engine design to the other to enhance the package.
And yes although that Mines R34 is heavily modified, its gearing and acceleration is on par with its response. I've seen this car in action myself, and I do believe its been in the US on tracks...its extremely fast.
I've been around many tuned LSx engines, and seen them first hand too.
I'm comparing the factory RB engine, to the factory LS. I'm also comparing the tuned RB, to the tuned LSx. I'm looking at figures, dyno charts, first hand vids etc etc.
I realize there are many fans of the LSx engine that have their thoughts on how fast it is after driving them, however, few, if any of them, including many on this forum, have actually driven both on or off the track.
I have, so am able to factually state how they handle and perform. And Im across what is going to transfer across from one engine design to the other to enhance the package.
Good luck in whatever it is you are trying to achieve with a LS7. I'm not sure why you would even attempt it considering you don't really think it's not on par with that old tech, japanese inline 6.
07-02-2011, 11:43 PM
#54
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If it were the cat's meow, Katech and LG would already be racing it.
07-02-2011, 11:47 PM
#55
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I'm still not quite understanding what you are saying. It's not just "fans" of the LSx engines that think it's fast. It's a fact that this series engine is one of the best designed V8's ever and is very efficient. I don't believe for a second that a mildly tweaked skyline would stand a chance against a stock Z06, straight line or road race. But, you can believe what you want.
Good luck in whatever it is you are trying to achieve with a LS7. I'm not sure why you would even attempt it considering you don't really think it's not on par with that old tech, japanese inline 6.
Good luck in whatever it is you are trying to achieve with a LS7. I'm not sure why you would even attempt it considering you don't really think it's not on par with that old tech, japanese inline 6.
I've driven both. Unless you can say the same, and if you had you would know exactly where I'm coming from, then you can have your view from one side, and I'll stick with what I know about both.
07-02-2011, 11:56 PM
#56
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Very true. Its why I'm talking to various tuners as to why they do and dont go down that road.
One company that can supply the crank, does so on a common basis to LS7 based sprint and race cars, and Comp Cams have the cams that match it. So there are people that do it.
Katech and LG may have knowledge in this area as to what they've done with it, but also have to think about the market that they sell too. There's likely a larger market for existing engines than those who do major conversions. Wont know until I get around to asking them, and finding out facts as figure's.
Thats what I've mentioned a number of times, I'm after facts and figures, yet keep getting opinions from people who are stating assumptions, and what they think.
034657]If it were the cat's meow, Katech and LG would already be racing it.[/QUOTE]
One company that can supply the crank, does so on a common basis to LS7 based sprint and race cars, and Comp Cams have the cams that match it. So there are people that do it.
Katech and LG may have knowledge in this area as to what they've done with it, but also have to think about the market that they sell too. There's likely a larger market for existing engines than those who do major conversions. Wont know until I get around to asking them, and finding out facts as figure's.
Thats what I've mentioned a number of times, I'm after facts and figures, yet keep getting opinions from people who are stating assumptions, and what they think.
034657]If it were the cat's meow, Katech and LG would already be racing it.[/QUOTE]
07-03-2011, 11:48 AM
#57
Le Mans Master
Cause yea, a DOHC TwinTurbo that can rev to 8500 in street trim is old tech....
I've driven both. Unless you can say the same, and if you had you would know exactly where I'm coming from, then you can have your view from one side, and I'll stick with what I know about both.
I've driven both. Unless you can say the same, and if you had you would know exactly where I'm coming from, then you can have your view from one side, and I'll stick with what I know about both.
07-03-2011, 12:59 PM
#58
One company that can supply the crank, does so on a common basis to LS7 based sprint and race cars, and Comp Cams have the cams that match it. So there are people that do it.
Thats what I've mentioned a number of times, I'm after facts and figures, yet keep getting opinions from people who are stating assumptions, and what they think.
Thats what I've mentioned a number of times, I'm after facts and figures, yet keep getting opinions from people who are stating assumptions, and what they think.
The irony of your second paragraph above is priceless.
Based on posts you've made in this thread, you have very limited knowledge about engines in general. You'll need to take a dynamics class to discover the abortion you're trying to do with the LS7. I seriously doubt anybody has done a flat plane LS7 and I'd be careful dealing with the company that wants to sell you a flat plane crankshaft for one.
07-03-2011, 01:17 PM
#59
Here's a question. If you had a 90 degree flat plane crank V8, would the crankshaft essentially be the same configuration as a cross plane straight 8?
Also, while the 180 degree header does sound interesting, it still doesn't have that flat plane sound (but then again, it's hard to tell what something sounds like in real life until you hear it in person).
Also, while the 180 degree header does sound interesting, it still doesn't have that flat plane sound (but then again, it's hard to tell what something sounds like in real life until you hear it in person).
You're kidding me, right? NASCAR doesn't use a cross-plane crank because it works better, they use it because their I'm-so-drunk-I-can't-fish target audience wanted a 'racecar' that sounded like the low-revving, big block V8 their grandpa used to run moonshine in backwoods Arkansas. Every decision NASCAR makes is done in the interest of maintaining their low brow, beer swillin', tabaccy-chewin', trailer trash image.
07-03-2011, 06:06 PM
#60
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Two places that forge flat plane cranks:
http://www.kingscrankshaft.com/kings...ft_llc_009.htm
Talk to Rick King, he gave me the name of Chris Padgett at Comp Cams to supply the associated cam to go with this.
http://www.bryantracing.com/
Jim Smaaladen
Bryant Racing
1600 E. Winston Rd.
Anaheim, CA 92805
714-535-2695 ext. 116
F: 714-535-4387
You'll also find the name John Lingenfelter mention in some discussions as well.
If any of those four, more than worthy names are not worthy enough for you, then well your welcome to your opinion.
But once again, I'm interested in talking to knowledgeable people about the matter, and have an educated discussion.
So far both of you have proven to be the complete opposite, and frankly, not worth the time being involved in this thread.
http://www.kingscrankshaft.com/kings...ft_llc_009.htm
Talk to Rick King, he gave me the name of Chris Padgett at Comp Cams to supply the associated cam to go with this.
http://www.bryantracing.com/
Jim Smaaladen
Bryant Racing
1600 E. Winston Rd.
Anaheim, CA 92805
714-535-2695 ext. 116
F: 714-535-4387
You'll also find the name John Lingenfelter mention in some discussions as well.
If any of those four, more than worthy names are not worthy enough for you, then well your welcome to your opinion.
But once again, I'm interested in talking to knowledgeable people about the matter, and have an educated discussion.
So far both of you have proven to be the complete opposite, and frankly, not worth the time being involved in this thread.