Dr.Ron

I worry the LG or T1 bars will be too stiff for my driving style and for street driving. I do 3-5 HPDE days/yr. only.

After researching, it seems the Johnny Oc'Connell bars fall between the stock bars and the LG/T1 bars...What do you think?

Ron

Werks

Between one Ron and another, I think that based off of my past experience with Pfadt products I would stay away from anything that they make lol. Might sound harsh but that's just being honest based off of almost everything that I have gotten from them failing in one way or another.

In regards to sway bars running stiffer bars does not increase your spring rate, those are two completely separate things. Your sway bar does not come into play unless you are cornering so if you run a stiffer bar it does not mean that your ride quality is going to be degraded and your car will ride harsher over bumps etc. All that it means is that your car will transition weight quicker (from side to side) when cornering, so it will stay flatter in the corners and not roll as much. Run soft springs and soft sway bar and you get a Caddy like ride, run soft springs and stiff sway bar and you get a Caddy like ride when going straight plus a car that does now wallow around when cornering Your ride quality when on the highway etc. is still going to feel the same as what you experience now with your Mag. suspension, when you go into a corner i.e. off-ramp your car is just going to feel more balanced and the steering will feel more precise so to speak. Sway bars are imho one of the greatly misunderstood suspension upgrades that most would benefit from but most do not understand and hence fear. They in essence put the sport in sport car by making your car handle like a scalpel....... in the corners!

Ron#2

Dr.Ron

Thanks #2. I appreciate your input.

I've read about some of the Pfadt issues. I don't recall seeing any about the bars though, not that I've seen everything.

So I get that they won't affect daily driving now.
I just wonder if I'd drive hard enough to reap the full benefit of an LG or T1 bar is all. They might be overkill. Plus, I think I've seen that they're quite noisey and require new end links as well?

Werks

I've broken the Pfadt heavy rate bars twice on the front of my car which is why I switched to LG bars. As far as if you drive hard enough to reap the benefit, that is something that you are going to have to answer your self. Imho anything that makes my car handle better is going to make me faster and make the experience more enjoyable but that is just me. The good thing about T1 or LG bars is that if you install them and for some reason do not like them (which I can not see any reason for it to happen) you can quickly and easily sell them used. Pfadt bars people will not want to touch with a 10 foot pole.

As far as being noisy just use some common sense to weed through all of the nonsense that people post. How can a sway bar be noisy? I guess if the end links are worn out you will get some clicking. Then again is your shocks are worn out you might get some banging, if your bushings are worn out you might get some clicking etc. etc. lol. If your car is maintained properly, it does not make noises. Let stuff wear out and not fix it and you are going to have all kinds of noises. In regards to end links, all aftermarket sway bars use adjustable end links, stock is non-adjustable. The adjustable ones allow you to corner weight the car and then adjust the linkage lengths connecting the bar so that it is not tweaking the car (putting any load on the suspension).

Not being crass but changing a sway bar is a basic, simple bolt on decision. Probably as major as deciding if you should tint your windows. It's a basic, non-invasive, easy to reverse, cheap upgrade that greatly improves the handling of you car. However I get the feeling from your posts that you are very unsure about doing anything to your car, and if you are so unsure that you should do something you probably should not do it.

Z06_1

At a basic level, what you've posted about how anti-sway bars work and their function is correct, but the devil is often in the details.

I am chiming in on this primarily because Ron and I have traded a few PM's on this topic.

In general, springs rates are chosen to maintain a ride height (resisting acceleration, braking and G loading forces) to whatever the target load the designers had in mind, shocks are valved to accommodate said spring rate and maintain ride height, and finally, anti-sway bars are a cross-sectional chassis device, in that they resist the movement of opposing wheels. To your point, IF you are running over a speed bump, where both wheels rise and fall in tandem, other than the stiction in the mounting bushings (there is always some), anti-sway bars are for the most part transparent.

BUT, we are talking about real-world roads here, and by definition, those roads cause the opposing wheels to constantly rise and fall at different rates, and will absolutely have an impact on "perceived ride quality".

I just don't want to give Ron the impression that he can slap a giant set of bars on his car and have zero ride quality penalties, all positive with increased roll stiffness as the only change.. If ride quality wasn't an issue, why did GM so carefully select the anti-sway bar rates they chose? Who wouldn't want a flat-cornering car with no penalties? Answer - it doesn't exist. (Well, unless we are talking about a fully-realized hydro-servo system like the P1 uses, a car that has only soft "helper" springs and NO anti-sway bars - but that is not our reality.)

Swapping the front bar on my car was my very first mod - but it was carefully selected to increase front roll stiffness in the name of improved front-to-rear balance and to add a sense of "laser sharpness" to left / right transitions, without going overboard and causing ride quality to become harsh.

Werks

Correct, the point that I was trying to get across though is that if you are at the point where you are pushing your car doing HDPE's you are probably driving pretty hard. Changing your sway bar is going to make a decent improvement in on track performance (as well as in general sporty feel on road), while really having a minimal impact to ride on-road. It was certainly less noticeable to me than changing to poly bushings or my switch to coilovers that is for sure. At the end of the day even with mag suspension set to stiff our cars ride quite soft compared to most sports cars!

Z06_1

Dr.Ron

Thanks guys for the replies. Werks, I didn't see you post up 1-2 posts..Sorry.

As for the Pfadt bar, the Johnny O'Connell bars are a totally different design than the ones you've broken..It's not the heavy/light rate Pfadt bar. It looks like a regular type of bar design...not defending it, just clarifying that's the one I'm referring to. Sorry, I stated the regular Pfadt bar (regular heavy/light rate) accidentally.

I'm unsure in that I worried about street ride quality, but that seems like it MAY only be made rougher if I went with a VERY stiff bar. I want to do one, just the right one. : )

Question though, does a bar upgrade impede the mag shocks functionality at all?

Z06_1

No.

Werks

I'm very familiar with the Pfadt product line as I've had almost every part that they make for the c6z on my car at one time except their coilovers and the o'connel bar. However that bar also has it's issues which you can find comments on here:

https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...post1588452891

My last post on this stuff but bottom line is they do not fit correctly just like a lot of the other Pfadt stuff. If you want to find out more about how that company does business etc. read that entire thread and then decide it you still want to give them your money. My recommendation is buy the LG bar, it's proven and works well. Try it, if you think it's affects your ride too much for some reason go back to stock and put it up on the for sale thread at $100 discount and it will move. Good luck with whatever path you decide on

Dr.Ron

Understood and warning taken. I hadn't seen that info on that specific bar....
Appreciate all of the info from you and Z06_1.

valet_devil

Hey Ron, good to see you finally dragged the Carbon and put some respectable times up. Maybe you can geta new set of Michelin Supersports and put the 2011 on the Fast Light 100% stock. Did you launch with everything off and in Tour mode?

Dr.Ron

Thanks! it was a last minute decision, that's why I didn't notify you. Sorry.
Yes, TC off. I'd have done comp mode but due to no TPMS in the borrowed DR's, the computer wouldn't let me use that mode.
I did leave it in tour mode, to allow for better weight transfer to the rear on the launch. I thought about switching to sport mode after the 1-2 shift, but I never did that..

I'd only try street tires at a rental. No traction at a test & tune to get good times.

Ron

sting ya

Guys im considering lowering my car all the way down on the factory bolts and was looking for some input - pros vs cons. Car sits a little high for my liking. May track the car in the spring. Car has approx 515 rwhp. Will it improve handling ? Will i need to re align or do any other adjustments ? Thanks

Werks

Just align the car afterwards and you should be fine. As far as cons, the only one is that you will need to be a little bit more careful about parking etc because your front splitter is lower but that is it.

Dr.Ron

I just had my car returned to a street alignment until the spring and track days....I have a corded front tire. I'm at 25,150 miles. My mechanic/alignment guy said when I get new tires I won't need a new alignment. Does that make sense?

Robert R1

Won't lowering the car on stock bolts affect handling if you're tracking the car?

Bottoming out faster, tire rubbing, etc..?

I'd love to do it on mine esp if there is a performance pickup.

Paul Foster

I bought mine from a dealer, guy traded it for a 2015 Z06. I'm trying to figure out if its an actual carbon limited or not. everything I've read matches but there is a big dif between being 1 of 252 and having a zo6 with the extra's after the fact. is there an easy way to tell by the vin number? its inferno orange and Vin ends in #102

I've also had a 2014 Z51 3LT and a 2012 Grand Sport, love vette's

JLDN

The Carbon limited editions will have "Carbon" on the door sill plate and center of steering wheel. On seat headrest as well I think. Black mirrors, black headlight buckets, gray calipers.

DanY

VIN prefix is different for a 2011 Carbon Edition than a regular Z06.
Mine is 58 of 252 and the VIN is:

1G1YL2DE2B5600058

The VIN ends in 5600xxx where xxx is 001 to 252