[Z06] How Long Have People Been Running Solid Stainless Exhaust Valves in the LS7?
12-20-2012, 07:24 AM
#21
Safety Car
If you don't like entertaining the prospect that solid stainless steel exhaust valves are a fix for this mess
I believe that this goes to show, that the practice of using these valves in the LS7, as an alternative to the hollow stemmed sodium valves
We don't know how many people are running solid SS valves, we don't know how many miles are on these converted cars, and we don't know how many failures (if any) there might be - only that none of that info has been reported here on the forum.
So again, I think if you want to literally say "hey, we can use solid SS valves in the LS7 without problems," then I agree. But your collective statements (and why you converted your car to solid valves) implies that you feel solid valves are a FIX for the LS7s - and nothing in this thread supports or disproves that.
Any typical hollow-stemmed factory LS7 will be expected to live longer than any converted car that I've seen posted so far in terms of mileage and driving style, so then I ask: if we have virtually no converted car that has yet exceeded the benchmarks of a typical production Z06, why are we posting yet another thread talking about how great the solid SS valves are for "a fix?"
Just seems like more propaganda and fodder for arguments to me... but I'll say again: I think solid valves are a good option for many people, I just don't see how your thread justifies any of this - other than pointing out that vendors have been selling aftermarket parts for the Z06 since 2007?
12-20-2012, 08:51 AM
#22
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Yeah, I can see that - but you're saying:
and
but there's no data here outside of a few vendors' posts on aftermarket head and rebuild options?
We don't know how many people are running solid SS valves, we don't know how many miles are on these converted cars, and we don't know how many failures (if any) there might be - only that none of that info has been reported here on the forum.
So again, I think if you want to literally say "hey, we can use solid SS valves in the LS7 without problems," then I agree. But your collective statements (and why you converted your car to solid valves) implies that you feel solid valves are a FIX for the LS7s - and nothing in this thread supports or disproves that.
Any typical hollow-stemmed factory LS7 will be expected to live longer than any converted car that I've seen posted so far in terms of mileage and driving style, so then I ask: if we have virtually no converted car that has yet exceeded the benchmarks of a typical production Z06, why are we posting yet another thread talking about how great the solid SS valves are for "a fix?"
Just seems like more propaganda and fodder for arguments to me... but I'll say again: I think solid valves are a good option for many people, I just don't see how your thread justifies any of this - other than pointing out that vendors have been selling aftermarket parts for the Z06 since 2007?
and
but there's no data here outside of a few vendors' posts on aftermarket head and rebuild options?
We don't know how many people are running solid SS valves, we don't know how many miles are on these converted cars, and we don't know how many failures (if any) there might be - only that none of that info has been reported here on the forum.
So again, I think if you want to literally say "hey, we can use solid SS valves in the LS7 without problems," then I agree. But your collective statements (and why you converted your car to solid valves) implies that you feel solid valves are a FIX for the LS7s - and nothing in this thread supports or disproves that.
Any typical hollow-stemmed factory LS7 will be expected to live longer than any converted car that I've seen posted so far in terms of mileage and driving style, so then I ask: if we have virtually no converted car that has yet exceeded the benchmarks of a typical production Z06, why are we posting yet another thread talking about how great the solid SS valves are for "a fix?"
Just seems like more propaganda and fodder for arguments to me... but I'll say again: I think solid valves are a good option for many people, I just don't see how your thread justifies any of this - other than pointing out that vendors have been selling aftermarket parts for the Z06 since 2007?
During that time period, no reports of valve failure are documented.
Some readers of this forum, after listening to yourself and others with your beliefs, would be led to think that the use of SS valves, is a practice which has not been around for any length if time.
The thread demonstrates that it has.
People who do this procedure, typically don't do it so that they can get 150k miles on cruise control.
They often do it to make the car more robust for occasional or even frequen track duty, in addition to street driving.
Thus one parameter to look at, in terms of success or failure, is in how many track seasons we have seen this fix, since it has been employed.
Knowing that some stock Z06s have not made it past even one track season, due to "missed shifts", it is encouraging to see that changing valves has eliminated the propensity for these missed shifts occurring.
Really though, the years, and full or partial track seasons, or even occasional forays, over these years, in cars with this upgrade, and the lack of failure reports, says a lot.
Since it seems that the thread causes you such consternation, and you don't grasp it's purpose, perhaps it is time for you to find another discussion.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 12-24-2012 at 11:25 PM.
12-20-2012, 11:26 AM
#23
Safety Car
Purpose of this thread: vendors have been selling solid stainless exhaust valves for the LS7 since 2007? Got it - any potential consternation has been averted!
12-20-2012, 11:48 AM
#24
Burning Brakes
The purpose of the thread, is to illustrate that the use of solid stainless valves as a means of addressing the valve issue in the LS 7, is a method which has been around for a long TIME.
During that time period, no reports of valve failure are documented.
The Quick Theorem "No reported documented failures= proof of solution"
During that time period, no reports of valve failure are documented.
The Quick Theorem "No reported documented failures= proof of solution"
12-20-2012, 12:00 PM
#25
Safety Car
Why not pick up your phone and call some of the major shops and ask them how many z06's that they have installed SS valves in? Should be easy to find someone who has put some miles on this setup....
12-20-2012, 12:13 PM
#26
Safety Car
The purpose of the thread, is to illustrate that the use of solid stainless valves as a means of addressing the valve issue in the LS 7, is a method which has been around for a long TIME.
During that time period, no reports of valve failure are documented.
The Quick Theorem "No reported documented failures= proof of solution"
During that time period, no reports of valve failure are documented.
The Quick Theorem "No reported documented failures= proof of solution"
12-20-2012, 12:20 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
I have 24K miles on my SS exhaust valves (32K total). Also note 11K of the most recent miles are with a blower on it too. Still going strong.
12-20-2012, 12:25 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
Wow......Quick must have gone to law school in college.
Well it's settled for me then. I'm going to keep the new Texas Speed PRC 265,s that came in tuesday and sell my stock heads. With 68k on my 07 it just seems like good insurance. Actually it's seems good insurance for any Z owner....
Well it's settled for me then. I'm going to keep the new Texas Speed PRC 265,s that came in tuesday and sell my stock heads. With 68k on my 07 it just seems like good insurance. Actually it's seems good insurance for any Z owner....
12-20-2012, 12:28 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
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I have talked to Richard at WCCH for over 2 hours on this. He has been putting SS values in LS7 heads for over 4 years with no value failures. We are talking hundreds of sets of heads. He feels the PM value guides are a real problem and this can lead to value breakage. My feeling is that some of the OEM values are defective because they are welded. In any event, I will be replacing my OEM values with WCCH. I'll probably go with the SS vs the TI as I am not going to mod the engine with a cam.
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
12-20-2012, 01:25 PM
#30
Drifting
Member Since: Jan 2010
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I have talked to Richard at WCCH for over 2 hours on this. He has been putting SS values in LS7 heads for over 4 years with no value failures. We are talking hundreds of sets of heads. He feels the PM value guides are a real problem and this can lead to value breakage. My feeling is that some of the OEM values are defective because they are welded. In any event, I will be replacing my OEM values with WCCH. I'll probably go with the SS vs the TI as I am not going to mod the engine with a cam.
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
12-20-2012, 04:39 PM
#31
Team Owner
I have talked to Richard at WCCH for over 2 hours on this. He has been putting SS values in LS7 heads for over 4 years with no value failures. We are talking hundreds of sets of heads. He feels the PM value guides are a real problem and this can lead to value breakage. My feeling is that some of the OEM values are defective because they are welded. In any event, I will be replacing my OEM values with WCCH. I'll probably go with the SS vs the TI as I am not going to mod the engine with a cam.
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
In my opinion, a large percentage of the heads Richard has refitted with SS have been run hard and modded. Your typical daily driver Z06 owner is not going to know about WCCH. So while Richard has probably replaced the values in less than one % of the Z06 heads, the sample will be cars that get run hard and tracked.
Mark
DH
12-20-2012, 05:28 PM
#33
Burning Brakes
12-20-2012, 05:33 PM
#34
I did a H/C on my care at 4k miles. The guides were out of spec on the exhaust side. I went with the SS/Bronze set up. After driving another 4k so a total of 8k on the car the heads were pulled. Guides were same as when installed so no signs of wear. I will pull the heads again at 12k but I think the problem is fixed in my case.
One other thing, the second 4k miles was with a fairly large cam.
One other thing, the second 4k miles was with a fairly large cam.
Last edited by zman62; 12-20-2012 at 05:49 PM.
12-20-2012, 05:52 PM
#37
Safety Car
12-20-2012, 05:59 PM
#38
Team Owner
Thread Starter
This is the direction that I had hoped the thread would take, and why I am so glad that I made it a point to at least make an effort, to turn the negativity away at the door.
So far, so good.
This is the kind of information we need in helping to determine if indeed there has been a long enough period of time, and enough miles to make some determination as to the efficacy of this approach in preventing valve issues.
To let some tell it, this particular method of approaching the valve issue, has not been around long.
Well, now we can see that it has been around, and that at least one cylinder head expert has been using this approach for better than 4 years, and without a mishap.
When we take into account, that this type work is usually going to be done on cars whose owners will possibly, or even probably, take them to the track, or drive them in the manner in which they were marketed, as well as drive them on the street, then the fact that we are not seeing failures in these setups, during some of the hardest type driving there is, is encouraging.
If these cars are standing up to multiple track seasons, or parts of track seasons, or the occasional trip to the road course or drag strip, and making it back home in one piece, then what does that work out to in cruise control miles?
I think those track miles and quarter mile passes count for something.
And while those cars going into those venues, might not have 150K miles on them, they are still standing up to being driven hard, which is more than we can say for some of these stock cars in here which have failed after just one track day.
So far, so good.
This is the kind of information we need in helping to determine if indeed there has been a long enough period of time, and enough miles to make some determination as to the efficacy of this approach in preventing valve issues.
To let some tell it, this particular method of approaching the valve issue, has not been around long.
Well, now we can see that it has been around, and that at least one cylinder head expert has been using this approach for better than 4 years, and without a mishap.
When we take into account, that this type work is usually going to be done on cars whose owners will possibly, or even probably, take them to the track, or drive them in the manner in which they were marketed, as well as drive them on the street, then the fact that we are not seeing failures in these setups, during some of the hardest type driving there is, is encouraging.
If these cars are standing up to multiple track seasons, or parts of track seasons, or the occasional trip to the road course or drag strip, and making it back home in one piece, then what does that work out to in cruise control miles?
I think those track miles and quarter mile passes count for something.
And while those cars going into those venues, might not have 150K miles on them, they are still standing up to being driven hard, which is more than we can say for some of these stock cars in here which have failed after just one track day.
12-20-2012, 06:19 PM
#40
Team Owner
Thread Starter
That's an instant and open invitation to hotheads ready to fly off the handle.
You can't even say "stainless steel" without them going into a fit.
Make that the first thing they read, and they will be in here causing a ruckus and worst case scenario, end up getting the thread locked.
I don't want that type in here while we are having a fruitful discussion.
So I did it in the third post.