[Z06] anyone compare michelin super sports to pilot sport cups?
02-06-2013, 03:37 PM
#1
Drifting
Thread Starter
anyone compare michelin super sports to pilot sport cups?
I am getting ready to buy a set of tires I normally run the pilot sport cups and am extremely happy with them both on the street and the track. But I am considering buying the pilot super sports but don't know how they compare on the track vs the pilot sport cups. Has anyone run both I would love some real world experience on the matter. The only reason I am considering the pilot super are the better traction on the street when wet and maybe better life. But with that said I don't want to give up much on the track either so any advice is appreciated.
02-06-2013, 04:43 PM
#2
Drifting
Thread Starter
I should add that the pilot super sports are only $200 more expensive than the cups, the PSS have a treadwear of 300 and the sport cups have an 80 treadwear, but I dont know this is a huge factor. Based upon the description the construction of the PSS indicates that it has softer compounds on the edges providing for enhanced traction which may approach that of the cups (I dont know) while providing extended treadwear.
02-06-2013, 07:57 PM
#3
Race Director
I have not driven PSC's on my Z.
The PSC's will have significantly more traction in the dry on the track than the PSS (I have not driven the PSC's, but have NT-05's for the track and will use my PSS on the track after the Nitto's are used up (soon). The PSC is a true R-compound tire and has the grip of that class of tire.
The PSS is a great street tire and I expect it will perform well on the track, too. I do not expect it to have the grip of an R-compound tire on the track. It would be significantly better in the rain. For tread life, I would not expect the PSC to last much over 5K miles in just normal street use. The PSS will probably last 15-24K mile on the street and obviously less with track use.
If you have been satisfied with the street performance of the PSC (not really a street tire) and you have a high horsepower Z, then you may want to stay with the PSC. The PSS will have a significant edge in the wet, but not the dry grip of the PSC.
The PSC's will have significantly more traction in the dry on the track than the PSS (I have not driven the PSC's, but have NT-05's for the track and will use my PSS on the track after the Nitto's are used up (soon). The PSC is a true R-compound tire and has the grip of that class of tire.
The PSS is a great street tire and I expect it will perform well on the track, too. I do not expect it to have the grip of an R-compound tire on the track. It would be significantly better in the rain. For tread life, I would not expect the PSC to last much over 5K miles in just normal street use. The PSS will probably last 15-24K mile on the street and obviously less with track use.
If you have been satisfied with the street performance of the PSC (not really a street tire) and you have a high horsepower Z, then you may want to stay with the PSC. The PSS will have a significant edge in the wet, but not the dry grip of the PSC.
02-06-2013, 08:25 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
treadwear rating says is all 300 vs 80. :-) I haven't tried the SSs but I would assume from the treadwear rating that they will be substantially less sticky on track.
02-06-2013, 09:11 PM
#5
Race Director
That said, I have extensive experience with R-compound tires, including running them as summer street tires on my Supra TT (Yoko 038 R's. which were also my track rain tires) and extensive race experience. The PSS is top notch, but the compromises made for a street tire mean than it will have significantly less grip than R-compound track tires that are "techincally" legal for street use.
On a 90 second track lap, I would expect the PSC to be 2 1/2 to 3 seconds faster than the PSS. In the past a street tire would be lucky to be within 4 seconds of an R-compound tire.
Last edited by AzDave47; 02-06-2013 at 09:14 PM.
02-06-2013, 09:23 PM
#6
Sr.Random input generator
I tried both at the track. I ran PSS tires on both EvoX and C6 Grand Sport. The traction was not extraordinary, but it was not bad either. It felt similar to EvoX's OEM tires (Yokohama AD013), but did not overheat or chunk as Yokohamas did. Actually, it looked like PSS tires would last a very long life at the track, which is a big cost saving in the long run. PSC had similar traction to PSS at the track in the first few laps, but then I had more traction become available as the tire got warmer. As I went through heat cycles, PSC tires started to warm up a bit slower, but when they did, they either provided the very same traction they did in day 1, or it was close enough that I could not notice.
Granted, I had more traction with PSC tires, but I also had more squeaky tires with the PSS (like any other street tire) at corners, which adds to the fun since it warns you of the limits of the traction, so you can play with it. I think PSC is the best r-compound tire since its traction is very consistent until the end of its life, whereas stickier tires like Hoosiers are known to lose its edge after only few heat cycles.
Since it rains quite a bit in Pacific Northwest, I'd not want to switch my daily driving tires to PSC, but I'd definitely consider it if I intend to keep two wheel sets (which is now easier than ever since we can get original C6 Z06 Speedline wheels for about $700). PSS tires were fun at the track, but I did not feel much of a difference from Bridgestones, Yokohamas, etc. that I have tried before. If I can only have 1 set of tires, I'd go PSS. Now that we know PSS ZP (run-flat) will be available for C7 sizes, HERE IS HOPING Michelin announces PSS ZPs in C6 sizes, too
Granted, I had more traction with PSC tires, but I also had more squeaky tires with the PSS (like any other street tire) at corners, which adds to the fun since it warns you of the limits of the traction, so you can play with it. I think PSC is the best r-compound tire since its traction is very consistent until the end of its life, whereas stickier tires like Hoosiers are known to lose its edge after only few heat cycles.
Since it rains quite a bit in Pacific Northwest, I'd not want to switch my daily driving tires to PSC, but I'd definitely consider it if I intend to keep two wheel sets (which is now easier than ever since we can get original C6 Z06 Speedline wheels for about $700). PSS tires were fun at the track, but I did not feel much of a difference from Bridgestones, Yokohamas, etc. that I have tried before. If I can only have 1 set of tires, I'd go PSS. Now that we know PSS ZP (run-flat) will be available for C7 sizes, HERE IS HOPING Michelin announces PSS ZPs in C6 sizes, too
Last edited by X25; 02-06-2013 at 09:29 PM.
02-06-2013, 09:27 PM
#7
Race Director
I tried both at the track. I ran PSS tires on both EvoX and C6 Grand Sport. The traction was not extraordinary, but it was not bad either. It felt similar to EvoX's OEM tires (Yokohama AD013), but did not overheat or chunk as Yokohamas did. Actually, it looked like PSS tires would last a very long life at the track, which is a big cost saving in the long run. PSC had similar traction to PSS at the track in the first few laps, but then I had more traction become available as the tire got warmer. As I went through heat cycles, PSC tires started to warm up a bit slower, but when they did, they either provided the very same traction they did in day 1, or it was close enough that I could not notice.
02-06-2013, 09:28 PM
#8
Drifting
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the feedback it is helpful. Cobra comparing treadwear ratings between brands is meaningless.
I have run several sets of Nt05's they are not in the same class as the PSC's and cannot be compared to one another in my opinion. The PSC's make the NT05's look like run craps
Dave thanks for all the input, I have in fact pulled over 1.2 in my Z on the PSC's they are awsome track tires and I could not imaging driving on something stickier.
The only reason I was considering the MSS's was that the increased treadwear and the possibillity of being able to drive if caught in the rain without a tight knuckled death grip and the grim reaper in the passenger seat waiting for a mistake at 40mph was a bit apealing
reading the tire rack description it gave me hope that even with the higher treadwear number relative to the PSC's it might have similar performance on the track with respect to cornering and such. But based upon what Dave is saying it may not be worth the tradeoff, I have plenty of other cars to drive when it rains or if I see rain in the forecast so I have the luxury of not having to drive the Z when it is wet or going to be wet according the forecast.
I have run several sets of Nt05's they are not in the same class as the PSC's and cannot be compared to one another in my opinion. The PSC's make the NT05's look like run craps
Dave thanks for all the input, I have in fact pulled over 1.2 in my Z on the PSC's they are awsome track tires and I could not imaging driving on something stickier.
The only reason I was considering the MSS's was that the increased treadwear and the possibillity of being able to drive if caught in the rain without a tight knuckled death grip and the grim reaper in the passenger seat waiting for a mistake at 40mph was a bit apealing
reading the tire rack description it gave me hope that even with the higher treadwear number relative to the PSC's it might have similar performance on the track with respect to cornering and such. But based upon what Dave is saying it may not be worth the tradeoff, I have plenty of other cars to drive when it rains or if I see rain in the forecast so I have the luxury of not having to drive the Z when it is wet or going to be wet according the forecast.
02-06-2013, 09:55 PM
#10
Drifting
Thread Starter
Update.......
I found this comparison on one of the Tire Rack track tests
This is an excerpt from the analysis
The Pilot Super Sport doesn't feel like it will challenge true track tires (like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup), but it does feel capable enough to raise the bar in the Max Performance Summer category
See here for the full analysis. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=141
I found this comparison on one of the Tire Rack track tests
This is an excerpt from the analysis
The Pilot Super Sport doesn't feel like it will challenge true track tires (like the Michelin Pilot Sport Cup), but it does feel capable enough to raise the bar in the Max Performance Summer category
See here for the full analysis. http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=141
02-06-2013, 10:27 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
I think the Sport Cups are quite a bit more expensive than the Super Sports. You may need to check your numbers again.
And, like others have mentioned, the Sport Cups don't last too long. I have had a couple of sets that lasted less than 1500 miles each with a combo of track and street duty. Sport Cups are nice for the track but they get awfully expensive.
02-06-2013, 10:43 PM
#12
Drifting
Thread Starter
I think the Sport Cups are quite a bit more expensive than the Super Sports. You may need to check your numbers again.
And, like others have mentioned, the Sport Cups don't last too long. I have had a couple of sets that lasted less than 1500 miles each with a combo of track and street duty. Sport Cups are nice for the track but they get awfully expensive.
And, like others have mentioned, the Sport Cups don't last too long. I have had a couple of sets that lasted less than 1500 miles each with a combo of track and street duty. Sport Cups are nice for the track but they get awfully expensive.
next week who knows. I am on my 4th set of PSc's and I agree mileage isn't that great I will probably go through 2 or 3 sets this spring and summer with street and track use, I love this country!
02-06-2013, 10:56 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Sep 2007
Location: Mechanicsburg Pennsylvania
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If you have ever lost a tire at speed on the track, there is considerably less soil in your Fruit-of-the looms if you are running ZP tires - thus imho Pilot Sport Cup ZP's trump the Super Sports
On the street those same Pilot ZP's can save you from a long walk or expensive tow (if they can even get the car onto the rollback without scraping it along the ground with an airless tire)
On the street those same Pilot ZP's can save you from a long walk or expensive tow (if they can even get the car onto the rollback without scraping it along the ground with an airless tire)
02-06-2013, 11:10 PM
#14
Sr.Random input generator
If you have ever lost a tire at speed on the track, there is considerably less soil in your Fruit-of-the looms if you are running ZP tires - thus imho Pilot Sport Cup ZP's trump the Super Sports
On the street those same Pilot ZP's can save you from a long walk or expensive tow (if they can even get the car onto the rollback without scraping it along the ground with an airless tire)
On the street those same Pilot ZP's can save you from a long walk or expensive tow (if they can even get the car onto the rollback without scraping it along the ground with an airless tire)
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-c...lar-tires.html
Looking forward to learning about the new PSS ZP tire sizes in March.
02-06-2013, 11:14 PM
#15
Team Owner
02-07-2013, 12:10 AM
#16
Race Director
I think the Sport Cups are quite a bit more expensive than the Super Sports. You may need to check your numbers again.
And, like others have mentioned, the Sport Cups don't last too long. I have had a couple of sets that lasted less than 1500 miles each with a combo of track and street duty. Sport Cups are nice for the track but they get awfully expensive.
And, like others have mentioned, the Sport Cups don't last too long. I have had a couple of sets that lasted less than 1500 miles each with a combo of track and street duty. Sport Cups are nice for the track but they get awfully expensive.
The PSC ZPs are only in the 19/20" sizes, so for me they would require a third set of rims.
02-08-2013, 06:49 PM
#17
Drifting
Something to consider. The PS-2's have a tread rating of 220 and the PSS are 300. The PSS tread compound isn't necessarily harder. The tire comes with 2/32 more tread depth. That could be where the extra tread rating comes from. Remember also that there is no actual federal standard rating system. We go by what the manufacturer decides to put on the sidewall. Also, with 2/32 more tread, the PSS should be a little better in the rain than the PS-2 on tread depth alone. However, I think that the major difference is in how well the construction of the PSS limits squirm, adding to better handling in virtually every catagory. First hand reports of how well they hold up to hard track use would seem to support this.
Gary
Gary
02-08-2013, 10:45 PM
#19
Le Mans Master
02-10-2013, 11:20 AM
#20
Burning Brakes
7/12 dumped original tires 8500mi. 345/30/19 psc rear 285/35/18 pss fr. I really hope there is a better street tire out there because traction still sucks. I still want a tire that is speed rated high. No complaints about fronts. 1/2 mi. in june has me looking at least for better rears.