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Old 04-17-2013, 01:26 PM   #1
Mookster
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Default Interesting opinions on PRC 265 heads from different shops...

Im getting ready to start ordering parts for my H/C build which hopefully will start late next month or early June. I reached out to 3 different shops(all are vendors here). All 3 werent in favor of PRCs. As soon as i mention them they'd recommend against them. I started asking as to why they dont like PRC and here are couple of the reasons.

Shop A: "Because their chamber design is terrible and are very sensitive to detonation, and don’t come close to running as well as the WCCH heads do"

Shop B: "On a couple of the cammed cars, there has been as much as 12-14 rwhp difference"....further explained that same exact parts were used and bla bla bla

Shop C: "In my honest opinion, they are hacks and I have seen so many issues with their engines over the years that I'm honestly suprised they are still in business."

Anyways, i was 100% set on going with PRCs this way my car doesnt have to be down for any amount of time and net cost after i sell my stock heads is roughly the same. Now, im not so sure anymore as these shops have done god knows how many cam/heads packages on LS7s.

As of late, a lot of CF members have gone with PRC heads and im curious the shops that you have used if they had any kinda opinion on PRCs?

Reading other threads it does appear that perhaps WCCH ported heads make more power than PRCs which is kinda what bugs me a bit as im trying to get close to 600whp.

Any thoughts or ideas?

Last edited by Mookster; 04-17-2013 at 03:53 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:50 PM   #2
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Hold on...let me get ready....

ok...Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-17-2013, 01:58 PM   #3
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I got no complaints with mine. My car actually made exactly the same power as the guy who I sold my stock heads to who sent them to wcch for their stage 2 setup. We have same exact setup.
Granted different dynos BUT both seem to read similar and aren't happy dynos as we both made 488whp with full bolt ons and heads no cam.

600whp is prolly only reachable on a dyno on the happy side to be honest or with a very max effort H/C/I upped compression build
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:12 PM   #4
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Does anyone else besides Texas Speed even sell the PRC's?
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:13 PM   #5
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No issues with mine. A lot of shops like to talk bad about other places. I've heard bad stuff about mast heads, and others. It seems people just badmouth what they don't sell.
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Old 04-17-2013, 02:19 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unreal View Post
No issues with mine. A lot of shops like to talk bad about other places. I've heard bad stuff about mast heads, and others. It seems people just badmouth what they don't sell.
well I don't know if Every case if I would call it badmouth persay maybe some do but ... more, certain shops may just prefer certain products based on the experience they've had here... just like we as forum members may prefer to stick with a certain product or vendor ourselves over another.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:05 PM   #7
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600rwhp NA will need a pretty big cam, more compression, or a happy dyno. Very doable but I think there will be some compromises in street manners. Maybe not a big deal for your needs but just saying.

Doubt you'd see any difference with PRC265s or WCCH2s (my new short name for WCCH Stage 2 heads). I don't see how they can be that different since they're modeled off the OE heads and just run through a TPS port/polish program. They're also 6 bolt if you plan on FI down the line.

I've got a set of WCCH2s on my car and they work great and I do have a slight preference on keeping an OE head, but I think I would have been just as satisfied with PRC265s if I were to go down that path. I did strongly consider a set of PRCs in my build though.

With all of that said, I don't have any first hand experience with these heads but I did get to ride in Drews car that has PRC265s and they seemed just fine to me. I think he just finished an air strip event without issue, so they have been driven hard. It is possible that the shops have some knowledge or possibly motive which influences their recommendation for heads, but based on the research I've done, I think you'd be hard pressed to find the differences between the two sets of heads.

Last edited by Jawnathin; 04-17-2013 at 03:15 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:15 PM   #8
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At this point in time, I'll take my chances on PRC's vs. what I keep reading on poor oem machining. Maybe they're ticked they don't make them so it's easy to cut up others........not good for business though.........and besides, if the shops send the oem's out, they can profit of them, probably not so much on PRC's as I doubt they get a jobber cost.

Last edited by RedZ4me; 04-17-2013 at 03:21 PM.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Im getting ready to start ordering parts for my H/C build which hopefully will start late next month or early June. I reached out to 3 different shops(all are vendors here). All 3 werent in favor of PRCs. As soon as i mention them they'd recommend against them. I started asking as to why they dont like WCCH and here are couple of the reasons.

Shop A: "Because their chamber design is terrible and are very sensitive to detonation, and donít come close to running as well as the WCCH heads do"

Shop B: "On a couple of the cammed cars, there has been as much as 12-14 rwhp difference"....further explained that same exact parts were used and bla bla bla

Shop C: "In my honest opinion, they are hacks and I have seen so many issues with their engines over the years that I'm honestly suprised they are still in business."

Anyways, i was 100% set on going with PRCs this way my car doesnt have to be down for any amount of time and net cost after i sell my stock heads is roughly the same. Now, im not so sure anymore as these shops have done god knows how many cam/heads packages on LS7s.

As of late, a lot of CF members have gone with PRC heads and im curious the shops that you have used if they had any kinda opinion on PRCs?

Reading other threads it does appear that perhaps WCCH ported heads make more power than PRCs which is kinda what bugs me a bit as im trying to get close to 600whp.

Any thoughts or ideas?
EDIT required ???
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:45 PM   #10
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Without anything concrete I'm not too worried. My race instructor has a fully Texas-speed built engine in his C5 track car and he beats the hell out of it relentlessly. He's blown.up plenty of motors but his Texas speed motor is going strong.
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:47 PM   #11
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Boy, I've been gone for a few weeks for treatment and now Iím back and stumbled upon this thread

Many things changed, but a lot remains the same

Okay, on the subject of the heads:
Both units: the stock modified by WCCH and the Texas Speed PCR heads are fine. Both are great upgrades from the stock unmolested units. I repeat stock unmolested units.

I have successfully sold, installed and tuned both units with great results. In fact, just three weeks, ago a local guy stopped by for a Speed Density tune on his super clean forged pistons 2008 C6Z. He purchased one of our cams; he order a set of the PRC heads and completed the install himself with the help of his younger son. I believe his final CR was in the 12.1 range and after dyno tuning it, we managed to get him 608rwhp avg. the highest pull was 610.4Öall on 93oct Shell gas. The combination worked well and he was really happy.

Iíve seen a few of the PRC heads and they are good quality. However, I would suggest getting a good quality milling job followed with good tuning to recognize all available power. Any two of these heads will eliminate any of those heads issues/concerns seen from the stock unmolested units. Again, noticed I said unmolested!!! The stock units, once modified/molested properly are perfectly fine.

We sell and install the WCCH units and had great success with them dating back to our LS1 days. The WCCH units never let me down and when modified, they offer great power, flexibility and reliability. I am great friends with the guys at Texas Speed, they have good stuff and they definitely helped me out on numerous occasions including visits at the track. This is no secret, I had a long term relationship with Richard at WCCH and I love the fact that he allows me to try out any ideas without much fuss. Geez, who knows how many set of heads Iíve sent to him for R&DÖsome become junk but most were success stories; itís the price you pay for exploring Ė I am not afraid to explore.

In summary, Iíve seen and tuned both heads from both companies and never experienced any issues. Just do yourself a favor and choose one over your unmolested heads because you could suffer head failures which can potentially lead to a lot more repair cost.

Thanks,
Carlos
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Old 04-17-2013, 03:49 PM   #12
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Why does it always seem that you need to have 100% identical results of two cars to fully see the true picture. The only way we will truly know if one is better then the other is if 2 cars with the exact same mods except for heads dyno on the same day same shop. I have not heard one bad thing about the PRC's until now. Due to not prefering the downtime they were the route I planned to go when the time comes...STILL IS!!!
This could be header wars all over again.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:06 PM   #13
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Thanks Carlos
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:12 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Im getting ready to start ordering parts for my H/C build which hopefully will start late next month or early June. I reached out to 3 different shops(all are vendors here). All 3 werent in favor of PRCs. As soon as i mention them they'd recommend against them. I started asking as to why they dont like PRC and here are couple of the reasons.

Shop A: "Because their chamber design is terrible and are very sensitive to detonation, and donít come close to running as well as the WCCH heads do"

Shop B: "On a couple of the cammed cars, there has been as much as 12-14 rwhp difference"....further explained that same exact parts were used and bla bla bla

Shop C: "In my honest opinion, they are hacks and I have seen so many issues with their engines over the years that I'm honestly suprised they are still in business."

Anyways, i was 100% set on going with PRCs this way my car doesnt have to be down for any amount of time and net cost after i sell my stock heads is roughly the same. Now, im not so sure anymore as these shops have done god knows how many cam/heads packages on LS7s.

As of late, a lot of CF members have gone with PRC heads and im curious the shops that you have used if they had any kinda opinion on PRCs?

Reading other threads it does appear that perhaps WCCH ported heads make more power than PRCs which is kinda what bugs me a bit as im trying to get close to 600whp.

Any thoughts or ideas?
A buddy of mine just made 922rwhp with a LSX 440 and a YSI. It maxed out the MAF at 6,000rmp. He is switching to a Speed Density Tune and a 2 bar map. It should make 1,000HP Plus after the swap.

I bought the PRC 265's for my setup. I should have dyno numbers and track times in a few weeks.


In my opinion the over priced shops have to bad mouth the competitively priced shops to justify their extra fees.

I've been racing and building setups for 13 years, and all of my setups have run better than they should because I put max effort into the setup. I didn't just buy heads and cam and expect huge numbers. I bought every bolt-on that was offered on the car plus the heads and cam. As a result my car ran better than every other heads/ cam car.


My 1997 LS1 Swap TransAm , has a stock bottom end 346 LS1 that made 507rwhp and 445rwtq with a set of PRC 5.3 Heads and a G5X4 Cam and every bolt-on. Not bad for a little stock LS1..


Best of Luck with your build.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:20 PM   #15
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PRC:

I've seen their ported LS3 heads. Look like s%^t.

The LS7 heads looked pretty good.
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Old 04-17-2013, 04:42 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FrankTank View Post
Does anyone else besides Texas Speed even sell the PRC's?
PRC is Texas Speed. Texas Speed makes the PRC heads, and also has distributors other than themselves that sell them.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:04 PM   #17
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Thank you all for opinions, much appreciated it!

Point of this thread was to help someone like me or perhaps someone in similar boat as me. I obviously was in favor of PRC heads hence why i almost went with them. I still might as im still undecided.

All these shops i talked to just offered their opinion and were open for me to bring my own PRC heads just to clarify that.

It appears that perhaps its a close tie and personal preference or just one of those never ending debates.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:12 PM   #18
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I used Speed Inc in Illinois and they work with PRC and have done over 30 ls7s with the setup and have never had issues.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:24 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mookster View Post
Thank you all for opinions, much appreciated it!

Point of this thread was to help someone like me or perhaps someone in similar boat as me. I obviously was in favor of PRC heads hence why i almost went with them. I still might as im still undecided.

All these shops i talked to just offered their opinion and were open for me to bring my own PRC heads just to clarify that.

It appears that perhaps its a close tie and personal preference or just one of those never ending debates.
Just for my .02, both Z's in my avatar are running stock heads that have been worked by Texas Speed, and i am pleased with both. That said, don't forget Darin Morgan @ Reher Morrison. He's an option I'd have used if it could've been a turn key deal.
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Old 04-17-2013, 05:34 PM   #20
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It all comes down to whether you care about down time for sending the heads out and waiting the month or whatever it is people are having to wait now. Or just having a set of heads ready to go and not wait. I went with PRC for that reason alone I did not want to let my car sit at a shop for 2+wks, instead I had the heads swapped to the PRCs in 1day.

Also brand new Ti intake valves is a nice plus, not that it is needed just a plus
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