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Old 04-27-2013, 05:24 AM   #1
Bill Dearborn
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Default Another Z engine bit the dust yesterday

Was at the Glen yesterday when one of the other participants lost his engine between turn 1 and 2. Dropped enough oil that they couldnt clean it up by 4:30 so they closed the track an hour early. This brings the total that I personally know about to 9.
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:27 AM   #2
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That's very sad. What year was it?
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:34 AM   #3
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modifications?
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Old 04-27-2013, 06:37 AM   #4
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So glad mine is in the shop getting PRC heads
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:51 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
Was at the Glen yesterday when one of the other participants lost his engine between turn 1 and 2. Dropped enough oil that they couldnt clean it up by 4:30 so they closed the track an hour early. This brings the total that I personally know about to 9.
Bill
That's a lot of motors Bill.
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Old 04-27-2013, 08:57 AM   #6
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Wonder what year it was and how much tracktime it had?
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:04 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
Was at the Glen yesterday when one of the other participants lost his engine between turn 1 and 2. Dropped enough oil that they couldnt clean it up by 4:30 so they closed the track an hour early. This brings the total that I personally know about to 9.
Bill
Of course we all know that when any engine blows it is a weak stock exhaust valve at fault, there's no way oil starvation, cast pistons, constant race use and/or over-revs, etc, etc, ever had anything to do with it, GM is always at fault. That's why threads that start like this one with ABSOLUTELY no information other than "another engine blew" are so important to making the internet and this forum so useful

Thanks for the information Bill it has been so helpful and enlightening.

Cheers, Paul.
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Old 04-27-2013, 09:54 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
Was at the Glen yesterday when one of the other participants lost his engine between turn 1 and 2. Dropped enough oil that they couldnt clean it up by 4:30 so they closed the track an hour early. This brings the total that I personally know about to 9.
Bill
Did you get a chance to talk to the driver/owner to get specific info about the car? In a C6z between 1 and 2 at the glen what mph gear and rpm would a driver most likely be at? Could there have been a missed down shift?
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:08 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by forg0tmypen View Post
Wonder what year it was and how much tracktime it had?
It's a bummer either way, but heavily tracked cars need more maintenance that traditional vehicles. If this failure was a weekend warrior with a few track days under it's belt, then that's an issue and worthy of complaint.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MTIRC6Z View Post
Of course we all know that when any engine blows it is a weak stock exhaust valve at fault, there's no way oil starvation, cast pistons, constant race use and/or over-revs, etc, etc, ever had anything to do with it, GM is always at fault. That's why threads that start like this one with ABSOLUTELY no information other than "another engine blew" are so important to making the internet and this forum so useful
If it's a "been racing the car for years" semi-pro kind of guy, then this would fall under "maintenance failure" IMHO. Where the line is drawn specifically, I don't know. But I'd guess Katech, LG and others' tear-down schedules are a good place to start. For now, I'll wait for more info before assuming; but given Bill's experience, I'd guess "heavy" track use in the absence of clarification.

Might as well be surprised that the carbon ceramic Z07 rotors fail after a few years of road courses, or that crankcase/trans/differential oils need to be replaced more frequently - there has to be a reasonable limit to what we blame valves for, IMHO.

What I really don't like, are the low mile garage queens that pop, totally screwing the non-racer with a hefty repair bill. For heavily raced cars, cylinder head maintenance should be on the list along with tires, oil(s), rotors and suspension: **** wears out more quickly than OEM when you flog it like someone else's mean dog on a track for a few years.

Last edited by Random84; 04-27-2013 at 10:11 AM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Gizmo View Post
[...] In a C6z between 1 and 2 at the glen what mph gear and rpm would a driver most likely be at? Could there have been a missed down shift?
Unsure if this is the configuration in use for that event, but FWIW:

Click the image to open in full size.


Wikipedia - Watkins Glen Wikipedia - Watkins Glen

Last edited by Mark2009; 04-27-2013 at 10:26 AM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:46 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bill Dearborn View Post
Was at the Glen yesterday when one of the other participants lost his engine between turn 1 and 2.
Did the guy regularly road race the car, Bill?

IF it's a regular wondering why the owner never heard there's a potential issue w/ heads? Ever speak with the guy? Why on earth an informed owner wouldn't have their head redone for heavier track usage is a real mystery to me.
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Old 04-27-2013, 10:57 AM   #12
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I see the "it won't happen to me, because this was a case of abuse" crowd is in full force this morning.

Denial (I'm not checking my valves)
Anger (I've checked my valves and I'm posting a video. Eff GM)
Bargaining (if I don't abuse my car, will you spare it mr corvette god)
Depression (ill just get rid of it and move on)
Acceptance. (My heads are fixed and the beast is back)

Maybe I'll start a poll to see which stage forum members are in.

Last edited by jedblanks; 04-27-2013 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedblanks View Post
I see the "it won't happen to me, because this was a case of abuse" crowd is in full force this morning.

Denial (I'm not checking my valves)
Anger (I've checked my valves and I'm posting a video. Eff GM)
Bargaining (if I don't abuse my car, will you spare it mr corvette god)
Depression (ill just get rid of it and move on)
Acceptance. (My heads are fixed and the beast is back)

Maybe I'll start a poll to see which stage forum members are in.
I rather enjoyed this post.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:09 AM   #14
Mark2009
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There ya go -- confirmed exhaust valve failure. Can you guys post the pics from the overnight teardown? Click the image to open in full size.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:15 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedblanks View Post
I see the "it won't happen to me, because this was a case of abuse" crowd is in full force this morning. [...]
Since nobody said that, my question is: Why are you making stuff up?
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:47 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedblanks View Post
I see the "it won't happen to me, because this was a case of abuse" crowd is in full force this morning.

Denial (I'm not checking my valves)
Anger (I've checked my valves and I'm posting a video. Eff GM)
Bargaining (if I don't abuse my car, will you spare it mr corvette god)
Depression (ill just get rid of it and move on)
Acceptance. (My heads are fixed and the beast is back)

Maybe I'll start a poll to see which stage forum members are in.
I am in Acceptance - Have GMPP till april 2017 - hope she blows before then. 30 days before the GMPP expires, will be ordering a set of Brodix heads. -- Love the look of these C6 wide bodies. this was and will be my last corvette - muscle / sports car purchase.
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:55 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark200X View Post
Since nobody said that, my question is: Why are you making stuff up?


if you saw my original post....my 07 has 77K on it and hasn't had an issue....will it??? Maybe...IDK....do I track it? No....do I occasionally drive it like I stole it? yep...

are there some legitimate issues..... perhaps .....is it full blown epidemic? inconclusive.

do people post stuff to stir the pot? absolutely

do people do stuff and lie about it on the internet? yepper

would they ever do that to the dealer to try and it get it fixed under warranty? you betcha

was the guy the OP posted about under warranty? we don't know...if so what will he do?

these and many other questions will be answered in this episode of ....

"A Z06 dropped a valve!!!!" > insert dramatic music here<
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Old 04-27-2013, 11:58 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jedblanks View Post
I see the "it won't happen to me, because this was a case of abuse" crowd is in full force this morning.

Denial (I'm not checking my valves)
Anger (I've checked my valves and I'm posting a video. Eff GM)
Bargaining (if I don't abuse my car, will you spare it mr corvette god)
Depression (ill just get rid of it and move on)
Acceptance. (My heads are fixed and the beast is back)

Maybe I'll start a poll to see which stage forum members are in.
Somewhere between depression (why did I buy a warranty, it's so expensive to fix this car, I'm too scared to ruin it)

And acceptance (I'll drive it till it blows and HOPE the warranty fixes it, maybe I'll find a spare LS7 laying around and fix it up for when that happens)....


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Old 04-27-2013, 12:11 PM   #19
jedblanks
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Quote:
Originally Posted by forg0tmypen View Post
Wonder what year it was and how much tracktime it had?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MTIRC6Z View Post
Of course we all know that when any engine blows it is a weak stock exhaust valve at fault, there's no way oil starvation, cast pistons, constant race use and/or over-revs, etc, etc, ever had anything to do with it, GM is always at fault....
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Gizmo View Post
Did you get a chance to talk to the driver/owner to get specific info about the car? In a C6z between 1 and 2 at the glen what mph gear and rpm would a driver most likely be at? Could there have been a missed down shift?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Random84 View Post
It's a bummer either way, but heavily tracked cars need more maintenance that traditional vehicles. If this failure was a weekend warrior with a few track days under it's belt, then that's an issue and worthy of complaint.



If it's a "been racing the car for years" semi-pro kind of guy, then this would fall under "maintenance failure" IMHO. Where the line is drawn specifically, I don't know. But I'd guess Katech, LG and others' tear-down schedules are a good place to start. For now, I'll wait for more info before assuming; but given Bill's experience, I'd guess "heavy" track use in the absence of clarification.

Might as well be surprised that the carbon ceramic Z07 rotors fail after a few years of road courses, or that crankcase/trans/differential oils need to be replaced more frequently - there has to be a reasonable limit to what we blame valves for, IMHO.

What I really don't like, are the low mile garage queens that pop, totally screwing the non-racer with a hefty repair bill. For heavily raced cars, cylinder head maintenance should be on the list along with tires, oil(s), rotors and suspension: **** wears out more quickly than OEM when you flog it like someone else's mean dog on a track for a few years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Landru View Post
Did the guy regularly road race the car, Bill?

IF it's a regular wondering why the owner never heard there's a potential issue w/ heads? Ever speak with the guy? Why on earth an informed owner wouldn't have their head redone for heavier track usage is a real mystery to me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark200X View Post
Since nobody said that, my question is: Why are you making stuff up?
Really? Almost everyone mentioned abuse in one form or another.
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Old 04-27-2013, 12:21 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by pewter99 View Post
do people post stuff to stir the pot? absolutely
I find that hard to believe Click the image to open in full size.
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