Cordes Performance Racing

There is nothing wrong with the car. And search up nic d and his tuning than say the tune needs to be checked. This cam has been used by others in az and it gives up a lot down low. But this is corvette forum the land of over inflated dyno numbers.

SlowVet05

I'm leaning towards this too. Carlos actually gave me a call yesterday and we talked for over an hour about my setup.

EX1

That guy would be me. I only had access to 90 octane in Lubbock,TX. I recently went with 13:8 compression and E85 and the car laid down 645rwhp and traps 142 in the 1/4. It was nice to not have fuel be a limiting factor in my setup.

EX1

My Widow cam car has always made over 500rwtq from 3500-7000rpm and peaking at ~575. I have a couple threads on here ranging from when I first did the widow cam and milled heads to when I added a FAST 102 and then when I did the compression bump and ethanol. If all the AZ guys using the cam all have low numbers and you all like the same tuner, well, that seems to be the common denominator. Although, it seems to me that the OP's car may have have a clogged cat(s) or the clutch may be slipping on the dyno. Seen those two things stump lots of guys who thought the problem was in the motor or tune. He should be making 550 easy and over 500rwtq

O and the land of inflated dyno numbers is supra forums...

SlowVet05

Yep, it was you. Nice car by the way...I've been using it as a sort of outline. I'm going to install some headers in the next few weeks and have Carlos remote tune it. If I make what these other guys are making around the country we'll know the issue. If not, then I'll take back my doubts about the tune.

EX1

Thanks man. Check out your factory cats after you install the new headers. They tend to fail when you start bolting on power. It had happened to multiple members. What clutch are you running? I think you will like Carlos's tune.

SlowVet05

Stock clutch, car has right at 30k miles. I'll definitely take a look at the cats when we pull them off. I just looked up your post, you made 597rwhp on 90 octane. That's awesome. I mirrored your setup as best I could, I'm just missing the FAST/NW so hopefully I can make within 25rwhp or so of that. I'll have to start saving up for a clutch after all this is done. I'm sure that'll be next.

EX1

You positive your clutch isn't slipping under the new power? The NW is only if you are trying to squeeze out every last drop of N/A power. The headers and FAST really let the cam shine. Shoot me a PM and keep me updated on your build or if you have any questions.

SlowVet05

Sent you a PM.

0Myhardtop

Hello Mr. SlowVet05,

As I stated to you during our conversation, your current set up is not yet fully optimized until you at least implement a LT headers kit (LT headers and X-pipe). In terms of the cats, your stock units will be put aside because new LT headers kits come with the headers and X-pipe (catted or off-road)…depending on which of the two you choose to order.

Overall, your results does seem low considering average gains seen for the past 4 plus years here in Texas and across the entire world using either 91oct, 93oct, race gas or E85.

I can’t speak to the full nature of the tune without first analyzing which parameters were tweaked. If you like, we can conduct a deep dive look into your current tune now, or after you install the larger injectors, LT headers kit and E85.

As far as your stock clutch, be prepare to kiss it goodbye…it will not last too long. The Widow cam has been known to make torque from roughly 2800 rpms to 5800 or so while providing a horsepower band all the way to roughly 7200 rpms. After reading that the cam did not start pulling until 5,000 rpms tells me that something does not seem quite right. Perhaps clutch slip or….

If your vehicle is functioning like it should and all mechanical parameters were done 100% correctly, a re-tune can be perform giving you the opportunity to re-test at the SAME dyno and verify output. At the very least, doing this may eliminate one potential suspicion, or you can just move on and install your next modifications which will require a complete re-tune anyway.

Thanks,
Carlos

Cordes Performance Racing

The exhaust is backing up so bad it took only like 13 degrees of timing, commanding anymore resulted in knock. This is why his numbers are so low, even after its done it's still az summer, az gas, and currently very humid out for us so it's not going to make close to the numbers everyone else in the country does. He doesn't have any clutch slip at all as its pretty evident when that happens on a dyno. Once we do headers on it the car will make a good deal more.

SlowVet05

The AZ gas thing doesn't make sense to me. Do we get different gas than California? Why do the stock cars make the same numbers they make everywhere else and the bolt on cars do as well. It's only when the cars have bigger internal stuff that the numbers seem to differ from everywhere else.

EX1

Could be that the wrong plugs are in the car. He needs TR6s or in the AZ heat maybe TR7s. Your gas can't be any worse than the 90 octane they make us use in West Texas with 100+ degree days. Still plenty of 570+rwhp Zs running around here too.

Z O SICK

What's up bud, it's Tony (AO Z). I think our crappy gas (i.e. low octane) is a little to blame along with no timing. 13 degrees is pretty low. We just so happen to live and have some of the worst things for our cars. Heat, low octane, ect. I'm sure after you throw on some headers you'll be close to where you want to be number wise. I was a little surprised with your numbers too but again, I think it's a few little things that are all adding up. 10hp here, 30hp there, you get the jist. I think you'll pick up at least 30rwhp/30rwtq with headers alone. Keep me updated buddy!

Tony

'06 Quicksilver Z06

Very impressive and good to see people continuing to first off, take steps against dropping an exhaust valve, minimizing that prospect with the WCCH SS valve equipped heads, and then killing two birds with one stone by adding power.

Congratulations on the build. I have you added to "The Registry"

briancb1

I would take Carlos's advice and move forward with it.

Keep us posted, good luck.

jnv255

Check your tune, re tune, whatever, then go to the track and tell us your trap speeds.. Dynos are tuning tools, with the added benefit of giving HP numbers.... All they are, are numbers... At least to me.

PRE-Z06

Agreed, here's the gains from headers after a cam only was installed. This is a smaller cam and stock heads, so I imagine your gains will be greater.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...510-new-s.html

JMB

Here are my results of stock vs ported (+13RWHP):
-ported heads/cam/stock LS7 intake w/90mm ported TB: 618/518 RWHP/RWTQ
-same as 618 w/ported LS7 intake w/90mm ported TB: 631/518 RWHP/RWTQ

NicD

I have not posted on this forum for forever but since this thread is directly talking about something that I tuned I'll throw in some facts. First off it's always the tuners fault, now that that's out of the way....

Yes the car dyno'd low, lower than any other cammed Z06 I've seen and I've been doing this since they came out. The amount of timing it took was typical of 100+ degree temperatures here in AZ with ~17 degrees up top, ~23 degrees in the ~3400 rpm range dropping to about 15 at peak torque. A/F was approximately 12.5 the entire way through and all "airflow" numbers according to the MAF AND the VE were correct for the kind of power it was making. As anybody who tunes cars knows making horsepower is the easy part, it's timing and fuel and ultimately what it makes is up to the engine. If it pings, guess what you've got too much timing and you need to back it off. I have lost count of cars that dyno here in AZ and go off to other states and with no other changes make another 20 horsepower here or there.

If the car surges at part throttle, you add/remove timing in those areas to try to smooth it out, reduce/turn off spark smoothing, make sure your idle airflows are correct, reduce closed loop fueling swings, possibly even run O/L in that area and command it rich, etc. All of these things are done regularly on cammed cars and this one was no different. If the cam was a tooth off you can generally tell by looking at the power and torque peaks and seeing if they line up where they should be and this one looked like it peaked in the right places for that size camshaft.