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Old 07-21-2013, 02:48 PM   #1
SlowVet05
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Default Widow cam/WCCH-X results

So I'll start with a little background. I bought an '08Z about two months ago and the warranty was getting close to running out. I wanted to have the heads done and figured I would have the shop install a cam while they're in there. I actually bought Carlos' original Widow cam out of his car and WCCH-X heads from Vette Air as well. I had the heads milled .030 so I could run 91 octane. Along with the heads/cam I had a MF103 installed. No headers or anything. The baseline on the car was 462/443. The baseline was on a different dyno than the one used to tune the car so that kind of goes out the window. The final numbers after the heads/cam/MF103 were 505 rwhp and I'm not sure on the torque. Obviously I was a little disappointed. The tuner and shop both said the manifolds are really holding the car back. Additionally, they suggest a ported throttle body to help the car idle better. I'm going to pick up some 1 7/8 headers, and have the throttle body ported. I also bought some 65lb. injectors from a member here and am going to have the car tuned on E85 this time. I'm wondering if I should have the stock intake ported as well while I'm at it. I've searched a lot and haven't been able to find any results from a stock intake to a ported intake on a larger head/cam setup. I don't want to spend the money on a FAST 102 setup at this time so what do you guys think? Have the stock intake ported or just wait until I can get a FAST 102? Hopefully with the addition of headers/E85/TB I can see 560rwhp+.

Last edited by SlowVet05; 07-21-2013 at 05:35 PM.
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Old 07-21-2013, 02:56 PM   #2
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If you search Buddy A he added a fast 102 over his stock ported intake he did himself and picked up a good bit of power. Headers are really holding you back I'm sure they will net you atleast 25-30+whp.

I wouldn't disappointed with your numbers without first seeing what is the normal stock baseline on the dyno you just made 505whp with. Or going back to the original dyno to just do a dyno pull to see the difference
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:23 PM   #3
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How does your car feel to you? (power wise) and, how do other cars perform on that dyno? The 505 seems low, but it could just be the dyno? I'm no expert

My car made 523/484 with a torquer 110, PRC heads, and an MF103. No headers or other bolt ons. The car initially had a street tune on it, and it made about 505 on the first pull, running rich. It picked up 20 hp when he optimized the afr to where he liked it, though his initial street tune was within 5%.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:28 PM   #4
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Honestly it doesn't feel any faster, that's what disappoints me. I was thinking about doing a pull on the dyno that the baseline was done on after the headers.
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:37 PM   #5
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That's really strange it should feel alot faster. Hopefully nothing is wrong. Might want to PM z06tanner I think he had a similar problem at one point a while back where his h/c Z didn't run harder than his bolt on setup it was a huge thread. But honestly I can't remember what ended up being the problem
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Old 07-21-2013, 03:51 PM   #6
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Unless that's a mustang dyno that sound low. I'm pretty sure that setup with headers is suppose to be a upper 500s setup and if you added Headers I couldn't see that coming up that far( maybe 30hp)
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Old 07-21-2013, 04:34 PM   #7
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IMO, don't touch the intake or fuel yet. Do headers for sure. Don't just start throwing parts at it. Once you have the headers, see what is makes and if that is good enough.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:09 PM   #8
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Original dyno was a dyno pak that reads extremely close to other places in town. Second was a dyno jet. Like I said man get headers and it will feel better. Not a fan of that cam in any way but headers will help you a ton. First ls7 I have ever felt that surged. Inb4 find a new tuner lol we have nic d so there is no better.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:13 PM   #9
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If it doesn't feel any faster I'd be concerned. Have you taken it to the track before/after?
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #10
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Original dyno was a dyno pak that reads extremely close to other places in town. Second was a dyno jet. Like I said man get headers and it will feel better. Not a fan of that cam in any way but headers will help you a ton. First ls7 I have ever felt that surged. Inb4 find a new tuner lol we have nic d so there is no better.
Yeah, I'm gonna go with Kooks, just haven't decided on 1 7/8" or 2" yet.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:16 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by sublime1996525 View Post
If it doesn't feel any faster I'd be concerned. Have you taken it to the track before/after?
No, I haven't had it long and the tracks here all closed down for the time being.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:18 PM   #12
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He literally lost 40rwtq almost everywhere. A lot of that will come back with headers, the cam doesn't begin to make any real power till 5k. Moral of the story don't do a huge cam w/o supporting bolt on's which will be remedied very soon. Also don't do a cam that belongs in a motor that can rev past 7200 rpm lol.
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:19 PM   #13
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Ryan if your doing kooks get the 2" for you the price is barely different
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Old 07-21-2013, 06:56 PM   #14
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I have the same cam but with headers. Mine made 540rwhp with stock heads. I am shipping the heads off tomorrow to WCCH. Is milling .030 safe with that cam? I only have 91 here in Oklahoma as well. I am back and forth on milling the heads. I am looking to pick up 25-30 rwhp.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:22 PM   #15
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Quote:
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He literally lost 40rwtq almost everywhere. A lot of that will come back with headers, the cam doesn't begin to make any real power till 5k. Moral of the story don't do a huge cam w/o supporting bolt on's which will be remedied very soon. Also don't do a cam that belongs in a motor that can rev past 7200 rpm lol.
I hope you aren't talking about the Widow cam. That cam is already tried and tested by a large number of people. It does not give you a peaky powerband. I was one of the first people to have that original cam installed and have been running it for almost 3 years. Something else is wrong with the car.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:24 PM   #16
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I have the same cam but with headers. Mine made 540rwhp with stock heads. I am shipping the heads off tomorrow to WCCH. Is milling .030 safe with that cam? I only have 91 here in Oklahoma as well. I am back and forth on milling the heads. I am looking to pick up 25-30 rwhp.

Yes it is safe. Before I switched to e85, I had my heads milled .040 and I ran 91oct. Car ran like that for 2 years before the conversion.
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Old 07-21-2013, 08:25 PM   #17
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I hope you aren't talking about the Widow cam. That cam is already tried and tested by a large number of people. It does not give you a peaky powerband. I was one of the first people to have that original cam installed and have been running it for almost 3 years. Something else is wrong with the car.

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Old 07-21-2013, 09:13 PM   #18
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I think there is something else going on with the tune. . I had the widow-r installed with stock manifolds (NO CATS) and stock intake snd made around 540.. check tune..
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:49 PM   #19
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Headers are a must for that setup! Stock manifolds are not really up to par to deal with that cam and those heads. You're probably getting a lot of reversion which not beneficial to efficient combustion. Exhaust system efficiency is very important for scavenging and keeping the exhaust pulse out of the combustion chamber. Combustion left in the intake passage and cylinder because of reversion isn't combustible. It will take up volume in the combustion space which displaces an equal amount of fresh air/fuel charge. You're 2/3 of the way there so finish the build with headers. Once you get headers and a fresh tune you will have a smile on your face!
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Old 07-21-2013, 09:57 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by EX1 View Post
I hope you aren't talking about the Widow cam. That cam is already tried and tested by a large number of people. It does not give you a peaky powerband. I was one of the first people to have that original cam installed and have been running it for almost 3 years. Something else is wrong with the car.
I agree and that's why I chose the combo. Dozens of Widow/WCCH setups out there making great numbers. I don't remember the member but there's a guy in Texas making I think 600rwhp on 90 octane with this cam. I don't doubt that the combo is capable of producing the results I'm looking for.

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Headers are a must for that setup! Stock manifolds are not really up to par to deal with that cam and those heads. You're probably getting a lot of reversion which not beneficial to efficient combustion. Exhaust system efficiency is very important for scavenging and keeping the exhaust pulse out of the combustion chamber. Combustion left in the intake passage and cylinder because of reversion isn't combustible. It will take up volume in the combustion space which displaces an equal amount of fresh air/fuel charge. You're 2/3 of the way there so finish the build with headers. Once you get headers and a fresh tune you will have a smile on your face!
Headers will be going on very soon. I think you're right about being happy after the headers/retune!
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