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Old 09-22-2013, 01:44 AM   #1
AzMotorhead
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Default Anyone have warranty denied due to headers

Id like to know if anyone has had a warranty claim denied because they had headers on there car.
I dont want to hear conjecture or speculation.
Back in Jan I had a cam failure which was covered under warranty.Stock except for CAI.
I'm installing headers on my car this weekend and wonder if I have another engine related issue is this going to be a issue.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:03 AM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AzMotorhead View Post
Id like to know if anyone has had a warranty claim denied because they had headers on there car.
I dont want to hear conjecture or speculation.
Back in Jan I had a cam failure which was covered under warranty.Stock except for CAI.
I'm installing headers on my car this weekend and wonder if I have another engine related issue is this going to be a issue.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1559454343

Frenchican

What they told him it would cost him to replace his LS7 back then.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1559624864

It's typically cheaper to replace an LS7 out of pocket now, than the $20K they wanted to charge him back then.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:32 AM   #3
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I've had several friends who have, especially with a tune that was needed to run the headers.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:26 PM   #4
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Even if you have a good relationship with the service manager at your local dealership, service managers come and go. You need to expect the warranty will not cover any failure that can possibly be construed as caused by the modifications done to the car. Yea you can get a lawyer, but it'll cost you plenty going that route.

This from a former employee of an aftermarket computer programming company.
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:35 PM   #5
AzMotorhead
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I can see voiding because of a tune.

I was asking about headers. If a CAI wont void your warranty why would a exhaust setup?
I feel for Frenchican, I think something was wrong with that whole scene
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Old 09-22-2013, 12:53 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by AzMotorhead View Post
I can see voiding because of a tune.

I was asking about headers. If a CAI wont void your warranty why would a exhaust setup?
I feel for Frenchican, I think something was wrong with that whole scene
I agree. That's why I would never tune a car still under warranty. I will ask if any brand of headers can be run without a tune before I buy those headers. Thinking about JBA 4/2/1 headers myself.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:05 PM   #7
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The headers' rearward mounted cats throws a code that produces a check engine light. A tune is required to "turn off" the rear cat sensors.

I don't think the code/light has any effect on the car's performance. At least none has been reported. The thing is, with the check engine light burning all the time you may not get the message if you have a real problem.

If you can find a set of rear cat MIL simulators you can use them without a tune. They mimic the output of rear cat 02s. You just simply plug them into the wiring harness in place of the rear mounted 02 sensors. I haven't seen them advertised for years though. Maybe someone else can chime in on MIL simulator availability.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:11 PM   #8
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The headers' rearward mounted cats throws a code that produces a check engine light. A tune is required to "turn off" the rear cat sensors.

I don't think the code/light has any effect on the car's performance. At least none has been reported. The thing is, with the check engine light burning all the time you may not get the message if you have a real problem.

If you can find a set of rear cat MIL simulators you can use them without a tune. They mimic the output of rear cat 02s. You just simply plug them into the wiring harness in place of the rear mounted 02 sensors. I haven't seen them advertised for years though. Maybe someone else can chime in on MIL simulator availability.
Great topic because I think I've already seen posted elsewhere on here where headers have been said by vendors to be OK to run without a tune. The 'minor detail' you've brought up seems pretty important. I wonder which if any header/cat systems don't do this? If so, those would be the only headers I would consider.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #9
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I agree. That's why I would never tune a car still under warranty. I will ask if any brand of headers can be run without a tune before I buy those headers. Thinking about JBA 4/2/1 headers myself.
You'd be hard pressed to get a MFR to guarantee a "No Code set of headers".

It's the "long tube" design of the header that's the problem. It locates the cats much further back on the car. Moving the cats back causes a slower cat heat up. That heat up is a timed event, monitored by the PCM. If the PCM sees a late heat up outside it's parameters for 3 or 4 cycles then it sets the code. Once the cat is heated the rear O2s sees everything as normal.

I haven't heard anything on this issue from our latest entry in the headers arena. Their slightly different design may impact on that, doubtful though. If they guarantee it and they don't throw a code then you'll be sitting Phadt.
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Old 09-22-2013, 01:53 PM   #10
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And a CAI could void a warranty. There are several cais that lean out the car. Anything that adds power beyond the factory may be grounds to deny the warranty claim. If a motor popped and the person had a air leak/etc or was running lean from a cai then I would fully expect the warranty not to cover it. Same with headers. You are going to add 20-30hp over what the factory rated, remove heat shielding/etc which can burn/melt wires. If the started died on a car with headers I wouldn't expect warranty to cover that, same with any other drivetrain/motor related failures. If the radio failed, they won't care.

The whole voided warranty thing means they can't void the whole warranty for parts like headers/cai but they sure can deny claims based on those parts. A wheel bearing going out, no problem, rear end exploding, valve dropping, piston breaking, etc I wouldn't expect it to be covered.
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Old 09-22-2013, 02:57 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Undy View Post
The headers' rearward mounted cats throws a code that produces a check engine light. A tune is required to "turn off" the rear cat sensors.

I don't think the code/light has any effect on the car's performance. At least none has been reported. The thing is, with the check engine light burning all the time you may not get the message if you have a real problem.

If you can find a set of rear cat MIL simulators you can use them without a tune. They mimic the output of rear cat 02s. You just simply plug them into the wiring harness in place of the rear mounted 02 sensors. I haven't seen them advertised for years though. Maybe someone else can chime in on MIL simulator availability.
Excellent points Undy.

Awhile back, there was a company which made O2 simulators, but they don't seem to be around anymore.

At any rate, KOOKS was working on a "Green Revolution" catalytic converter which was supposed to keep your CEL from coming on when you use your stock rear O2 sensors.



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Old 09-22-2013, 07:32 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by '06 Quicksilver Z06 View Post
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1559454343

Frenchican

What they told him it would cost him to replace his LS7 back then.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c6-z...post1559624864

It's typically cheaper to replace an LS7 out of pocket now, than the $20K they wanted to charge him back then.
Tommy is a local and the first one to own a C6Z06 in our area. He had very few miles on it. It was a garage queen that he brought out to car shows. It was denied at the same dealership that warrantied my blown motor with stock exhaust.


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Old 09-22-2013, 07:43 PM   #13
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Can we please stop using the term "void" warranty? Only a court can do that. As OP stated, a dealership can refuse to honor a warranty, but only a court can declare a contract "void." And it would only do that for reasons of illegality, etc. #LawyerNitpick #Quixotic
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Old 09-22-2013, 07:56 PM   #14
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If you can't afford to pay, then don't mod to play. That said, I find more fun in playing rather than cowering in fear of paying. My engine warranty was gone in 4 months and the rest of the drivetrain within the 1st year. I'll never lie on my death bed smiling about the fun I missed just to keep the warranty intact.
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Old 09-22-2013, 08:08 PM   #15
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Quote:
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I'll never lie on my death bed smiling about the fun I missed just to keep the warranty intact.
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Old 09-22-2013, 10:35 PM   #16
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Quote:
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I'll never lie on my death bed smiling about the fun I missed just to keep the warranty intact.
Best reply EVER that I've seen on the Corvette forums!
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Old 09-23-2013, 04:00 AM   #17
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This post digresses from my original question. But we'll continue
I'm not afraid to play either. And I like doing Mods.
But if something goes south, due to a possible flaw from a incorrect machining procedure done at the factory. Why should I be the one to incur the cost of the loss? especially if I have a warranty that covers said loss.
I didn't purchase the car with the mind set of "oh well whats another $1500-$3000 towards ownership"
Tires & brakes clutches are just like fuel and oil, EXPENDABLE and have a life limit. Yes I can see paying out of pocket for those.
But when a MFG puts out a product that is designed and engineered for certain duties it should be able to perform those duties for at least as long as their originally offered warranty is in effect.
Now if a extended warranty is offered,it is not free. Essentially you are purchasing insurance agreement that if anything should go wrong later you are covered. If you never have to use the extended warranty and you let it expire the Co. you entered that agreement with has now reaped the benefit of essentially "free money"
Anyway.... The reason I inquired about headers is that I see them as no different as the CAI you are just helping the engine breathe In and out.
How or why someone can conclude that helping a engine breathe can cause a mechanical failure is beyond me.
As a side note
The second set of O2's are just there to monitor the Cats. If they see cat inefficiency they turn on the CEL if they see too much fuel being unburnt by the cat they will cause the CEL to start flashing. Indicating that you are possibly damaging the cat(s) But they will not command fuel to be cut.
The Primary O2's are the ones that report to the ECM to determine fuel scheduling
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:41 AM   #18
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I just installed a set of Melrose Ceramic long tubes and H/F cats and don't have a check engine yet. I've only put a few hundred on though.
Why don't you call the service manager. I'm sure he will tell you what folks are saying here. GM will pretty much do anything to not pay a penny on warranties. There's no way a set of headers should void a warranty. But if you tune the car to get the most from the headers you give them a 14k out. If you pull the trigger on the headers you may have to pull the trigger very soon on making sure the valve issue is addressed.
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Old 09-23-2013, 09:58 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HOXXOH View Post
If you can't afford to pay, then don't mod to play. That said, I find more fun in playing rather than cowering in fear of paying. My engine warranty was gone in 4 months and the rest of the drivetrain within the 1st year. I'll never lie on my death bed smiling about the fun I missed just to keep the warranty intact.
Well said sir!!
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:05 PM   #20
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You can always flash the car back to stock and put the stock manifolds back, if any issues do arrise. Itll be a pain in the a$$ doing so, but hey if they can fix it, its worth it. The manufacturer has to prove that the issue was a direct correlation to the headers that you put in. Theyll make you run through hoops, which will be a bi*** and they can still deny the claim. We dont get the Z and expect it to keep them stock all the time.
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Old 09-23-2013, 12:05 PM
 
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