[Z06] Hell Widow Cam and WCCH Setup
06-20-2014, 12:47 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Hell Widow Cam and WCCH Setup
I finally got my car all back together so I thought I'd share some of the results. I picked this car up about 2 months ago and it had 14.5k miles on it at the time. I put about 800 miles on it before tearing it apart. Good thing I did because my guides were out of spec.
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads (11.8-12.0:1)
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
K5R Timing Chain
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads (11.8-12.0:1)
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
K5R Timing Chain
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
Last edited by rio95; 06-20-2014 at 05:39 PM.
06-20-2014, 01:31 AM
#2
I finally got my car all back together so I thought I'd share some of the results. I picked this car up about 2 months ago and it had 14.5k miles on it at the time. I put about 800 miles on it before tearing it apart. Good thing I did because my guides were out of spec.
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
06-20-2014, 05:20 PM
#6
I finally got my car all back together so I thought I'd share some of the results. I picked this car up about 2 months ago and it had 14.5k miles on it at the time. I put about 800 miles on it before tearing it apart. Good thing I did because my guides were out of spec.
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
Setup:
WCCH/Vette-air Stage 2 heads
Bronze guides, REV exhaust valves, BTR dual springs
Vette-air Hell Widow Cam
Halltech 107R
New stock LS7 rockers and lifters
BTR 7.75 pushrods
ARP head bolts
160 deg Tstat
Stock exhaust, intake, and TB
So far I love the setup. The new found power and sound is great. The first startup went great, except for a dead battery.... I was very surprised how well the car idled with the stock tune. I put some easy miles on it prior to tuning to make sure everything was solid and aside from some bucking and rough starting, the car ran quite well. My buddy has since worked on the tune on the street and WOT is pretty much worked out, but we haven't made any progress on driveability. The first few seconds of startup are rough and there is some bucking below 2k RPM in high gear, but it's not too bad. I'm hopeful we'll be able to improve on these things. We plan to get it on the dyno early next week to optimize WOT a little further. Right now AFR is about 12.2 and timing is about 20. More timing was giving us blips of KR. I'm curious to see what the car responds to while on the dyno.
In regards to the cam, I am very happy with my choice thus far. It is a pretty choppy idle and certainly shakes the car around at idle, which I like. The car is quite loud at the rear (not too loud), but very tame in front of the car and in the cabin. In fact my wife said "oh I thought it was going to be louder" haha. The sound really isn't that different inside while cruising around, which was a bit of a surprise. I was considering getting a mild to wild setup, but don't feel the need to with the stock exhaust. I don't think I would ever want the baffles closed. I thought the valvetrain was going to be louder than it is so I'm happy about that. It is certainly louder than stock though and you can notice it at times with the windows down.
Next up is new front tires so I can make my 4 hour trip next weekend to a car show.
Here's a video of the first start-up with baffles open:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj4s...ature=youtu.be
It is possible that the dynamic compression is way too high. there are a lot of variables that go into measuring that and I hope you or someone else did this. I have seen this happen many times. The LS7 motor is very touchy and on pump gas you wont get timing and have to run it too rich to cool the combustion enough not to get KR if the DCR is too high. Put it on race gas and it will be fine and take timing but you are not going to run the car on C16 daily. This is the first thing to look at. get the cam specs and hopefully you know your piston to deck height in order to get and accurate DCR. Plus you need to know the combustion chamber volume and gasket thickness. You can get you dynamic stroke and dynamic compression with all this info.
The reason I mention this is because it happened to me recently and it is because I messed up in my original calculations of DCR and ordered the wrong head gaskets so now thicker ones are going on it to drop it down since it was nearly 8.8:1 which is too high for 91 octane even with torco. The crappyness of heavily oxygenated fuel is not changed in that regard with torco. it is still garbage fuel although the torco can help and I am sure it did since I doubt we would have gotten even 18 degrees at peak torque without it. For a street car on pump you want it right around 8.4-8.5 unless you have 93 octane then you can get away with a little more. CA 91 is just horrible gas though. Not sure what you have where you live.
06-20-2014, 05:42 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
It is possible that the dynamic compression is way too high. there are a lot of variables that go into measuring that and I hope you or someone else did this. I have seen this happen many times. The LS7 motor is very touchy and on pump gas you wont get timing and have to run it too rich to cool the combustion enough not to get KR if the DCR is too high. Put it on race gas and it will be fine and take timing but you are not going to run the car on C16 daily. This is the first thing to look at. get the cam specs and hopefully you know your piston to deck height in order to get and accurate DCR. Plus you need to know the combustion chamber volume and gasket thickness. You can get you dynamic stroke and dynamic compression with all this info.
The reason I mention this is because it happened to me recently and it is because I messed up in my original calculations of DCR and ordered the wrong head gaskets so now thicker ones are going on it to drop it down since it was nearly 8.8:1 which is too high for 91 octane even with torco. The crappyness of heavily oxygenated fuel is not changed in that regard with torco. it is still garbage fuel although the torco can help and I am sure it did since I doubt we would have gotten even 18 degrees at peak torque without it. For a street car on pump you want it right around 8.4-8.5 unless you have 93 octane then you can get away with a little more. CA 91 is just horrible gas though. Not sure what you have where you live.
The reason I mention this is because it happened to me recently and it is because I messed up in my original calculations of DCR and ordered the wrong head gaskets so now thicker ones are going on it to drop it down since it was nearly 8.8:1 which is too high for 91 octane even with torco. The crappyness of heavily oxygenated fuel is not changed in that regard with torco. it is still garbage fuel although the torco can help and I am sure it did since I doubt we would have gotten even 18 degrees at peak torque without it. For a street car on pump you want it right around 8.4-8.5 unless you have 93 octane then you can get away with a little more. CA 91 is just horrible gas though. Not sure what you have where you live.
Luckily, we have 93 octane up here in Michigan
Last edited by rio95; 06-21-2014 at 12:21 AM.
06-21-2014, 12:17 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
06-21-2014, 12:20 AM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
That was the original plan but I changed my mind last minute. I go on a 4 hour one way trip every year where e85 is not available so it's always a pita for the e85 guys. I figured with this compression I could go either way.
Last edited by rio95; 06-22-2014 at 07:34 PM.
06-26-2014, 12:44 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Well I finally got it on the dyno and I'm happy with the results. It made 552/517 (corrected). That's pretty good considering this was on a mustang dyno in terrible weather. Keep in mind I have stock exhaust, intake, TB, and injectors. The car responded very well to timing. A 2 deg bump resulted in about 20 rwhp. The compression was keeping us from running more timing as we were getting two small blips of KR on a few of the runs. I think a little 110 or E85 would make a huge difference on this setup. We're hoping the addition of headers and ditching the stock cats will make the car a little more resistant to knock and allow us to get a touch more aggressive on AFR and timing.
Last edited by rio95; 06-26-2014 at 05:00 AM.
06-26-2014, 02:32 PM
#16
Drifting
06-26-2014, 03:26 PM
#17
Pro
Could run a meth setup, that steps the timing up a little when it is active, and leaves it the way it is, when it isn't spraying. This way, you aren't forced to run it if it isn't available, or wanted.
05-22-2016, 07:21 PM
#18
Racer
2 year old thread but I am about to put this combo in plus the NW TB and FAST intake, LG LT Headers, high flow cats. Going flex fuel e85 to 91octane 725cc Injector Dynamics w/ Kenne Bell boost a pump.
Cannot wait for this to be done and get on the dyno. Engine being overhauled.
Mantic 9000 and LG carbon driveshaft going in as well.
Should have numbers Early July!
Cheers fellas, I will post the dyno sheet up once I have it.
Cannot wait for this to be done and get on the dyno. Engine being overhauled.
Mantic 9000 and LG carbon driveshaft going in as well.
Should have numbers Early July!
Cheers fellas, I will post the dyno sheet up once I have it.