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Old 07-22-2014, 07:48 PM   #1
Tarostar
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Default Had heads inspected today. Advice needed.

Hi all. I took my 2007 Z06 in to get the heads/valves checked today at a local performance shop. 25k miles. They showed me that while the wiggle wasn't terrible, there was clear sign of wear on the tips of the intake valves that they were concerned about. He said that the outer metal layer had started to strip away and that the tips were starting to mushroom out and break up. They said they were OK with me driving the car home and for short drives, but that they highly recommended having the heads reworked. I'd like to get your input.

The shop recommended sending my heads to WCCH for the stage 2 service. They also suggested that I could pursue a cam swap or bolt on super charger while it was in. My questions:

1) The car came with a Hendrick Autoguard CPO maintenance repair service. Is there any chance that they will reliably fix this issue under their warranty to an extent that I can push the valve drop issue to the back of my mind, or is the stage 2 the clear way to go? The documentation says they cover valves and guides, but that doesn't mean they will cover a true fix. My next step is to take it back to the dealer and see what they will offer to do, but I'm not optimistic.

2) I want to make sure the car remains comfortable to drive on city streets, and I'm not looking to drag it. Is there a cam you would recommend? Any other smaller ticket items I should address while it is in?

3) Is there a good source of information for bolt-on LS7 superchargers? Not sure I will have the funds to go down that route.

Last edited by Tarostar; 07-22-2014 at 07:57 PM.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:07 PM   #2
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Contact ECS or FSP for supercharger questions. Either way the heads should be worked.

Intake valves shouldn't be mushrooming unless lash caps were left off. If they were, then someone else was in the motor and messed it up.

Either way, WCCH stage 2 is a great upgrade/modification. AI also does great heads.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:15 PM   #3
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Quote:
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Contact ECS or FSP for supercharger questions. Either way the heads should be worked.

Intake valves shouldn't be mushrooming unless lash caps were left off. If they were, then someone else was in the motor and messed it up.

Either way, WCCH stage 2 is a great upgrade/modification. AI also does great heads.
I may have misheard him and it could be the exhaust valve tips showing the wear. He suggested it looked like the wear was from hard driving, but that everything else about the car aside from the valves looked great.
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Old 07-22-2014, 08:59 PM   #4
Mark2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
Hi all. I took my 2007 Z06 in to get the heads/valves checked today at a local performance shop. 25k miles. They showed me that while the wiggle wasn't terrible [...]
This is unacceptable. Either they measured with a dial indicator, or they didn't. If they didn't, they are robbing you by taking your money.

As soon as the guy tried to sell me a supercharger I probably woulda been outta there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
[...] there was clear sign of wear on the tips of the intake valves that they were concerned about. He said that the outer metal layer had started to strip away and that the tips were starting to mushroom out and break up. [...]
This makes no sense at all. Even if he was talking about the exhaust valves. Unless the stock valves are no longer in the car (I've read of this on aftermarket valves, but never on the stock valves).

At this point I'd suggest another shop that can provide a written report that makes sense. Or just say to hell with it and get the heads rebuilt regardless (since so many seem to have so much trouble getting a shop to do a proper check).

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I want to make sure the car remains comfortable to drive on city streets, and I'm not looking to drag it. Is there a cam you would recommend?
Yes, the stock one
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:10 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
Hi all. I took my 2007 Z06 in to get the heads/valves checked today at a local performance shop. 25k miles. They showed me that while the wiggle wasn't terrible, there was clear sign of wear on the tips of the intake valves that they were concerned about. He said that the outer metal layer had started to strip away and that the tips were starting to mushroom out and break up. They said they were OK with me driving the car home and for short drives, but that they highly recommended having the heads reworked. I'd like to get your input.

The shop recommended sending my heads to WCCH for the stage 2 service. They also suggested that I could pursue a cam swap or bolt on super charger while it was in. My questions:

1) The car came with a Hendrick Autoguard CPO maintenance repair service. Is there any chance that they will reliably fix this issue under their warranty to an extent that I can push the valve drop issue to the back of my mind, or is the stage 2 the clear way to go? The documentation says they cover valves and guides, but that doesn't mean they will cover a true fix. My next step is to take it back to the dealer and see what they will offer to do, but I'm not optimistic.

2) I want to make sure the car remains comfortable to drive on city streets, and I'm not looking to drag it. Is there a cam you would recommend? Any other smaller ticket items I should address while it is in?

3) Is there a good source of information for bolt-on LS7 superchargers? Not sure I will have the funds to go down that route.
I would follow the advice of the shop that you have chosen.

Of course, you can roll the dice that the shop which told you all of this was simply lying and trying to make you spend money on a supercharger, and just keep driving.

But a hole in the side of your engine block is the penalty if you are wrong.

Or you could spend more dough to have yet "another shop" do a "wiggle test", and if their findings and recommendations differed from the first shop, spend to the money to have a "third" shop, do a wiggle test for the "tie breaker".

Or, if their findings were the same as the first shop, you could keep paying for other shops to do wiggle tests until you got the result that you wanted.

The above is why some look at the "wiggle test" with a jaundiced eye in the first place, in terms of it's actual "value" in the management of this issue, and it's cost effectiveness.

The decision is ultimately yours of course, and I wish you the best.

But the smart choice here, is to take the advice of the shop you took your car to for the management of the matter.

.
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Old 07-22-2014, 09:30 PM   #6
Mark2009
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Nice job of deleting your original post, then greatly amplifying it to refute mine after-the-fact
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:03 PM   #7
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This is unacceptable. Either they measured with a dial indicator, or they didn't. If they didn't, they are robbing you by taking your money.

As soon as the guy tried to sell me a supercharger I probably woulda been outta there.


This makes no sense at all. Even if he was talking about the exhaust valves. Unless the stock valves are no longer in the car (I've read of this on aftermarket valves, but never on the stock valves).

At this point I'd suggest another shop that can provide a written report that makes sense. Or just say to hell with it and get the heads rebuilt regardless (since so many seem to have so much trouble getting a shop to do a proper check).


Yes, the stock one
Supercharger is out of the picture. Cam too probably. The shop was recommended on these forums. Have been around for nearly 10 years but this is my first time there.
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Old 07-22-2014, 10:12 PM   #8
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Well, I'm a numbers guy. If a shop is checking clearances for me, I want the numbers, then I'll make the decision if they are good or not. Not everyone is so picky

Did they say if the springs and retainers looked like original equipment? The valve tip issue is really puzzling.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:16 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2009 View Post
Well, I'm a numbers guy. If a shop is checking clearances for me, I want the numbers, then I'll make the decision if they are good or not. Not everyone is so picky

Did they say if the springs and retainers looked like original equipment? The valve tip issue is really puzzling.
Can't argue with you about wanting numbers or more info. Not sure if a successful wiggle test would ease my mind for more than a few hundred miles at this point. Would be nice to have real peace of mind.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:19 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2009 View Post
Well, I'm a numbers guy. If a shop is checking clearances for me, I want the numbers, then I'll make the decision if they are good or not. Not everyone is so picky

Did they say if the springs and retainers looked like original equipment? The valve tip issue is really puzzling.


If it were me, I'd try to find a second shop/second opinion that could give me better details in writting.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:21 PM   #11
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Nice job of deleting your original post, then greatly amplifying it to refute mine after-the-fact
Hahahahahaha.
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Old 07-23-2014, 12:19 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark2009 View Post
Nice job of deleting your original post, then greatly amplifying it to refute mine after-the-fact
Whatever are you talking about Mark? What original post????

You're probably just experiencing déjà vu all over again?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
Can't argue with you about wanting numbers or more info. Not sure if a successful wiggle test would ease my mind for more than a few hundred miles at this point. Would be nice to have real peace of mind.
Your local shop has already given you advice as to how to achieve that.

Do yourself a favor and follow their advice, and you will have your "real peace of mind".

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Old 07-23-2014, 06:11 AM   #13
telly444
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get your heads done. WCCH no exeptions.
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Old 07-23-2014, 07:54 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
Can't argue with you about wanting numbers or more info. Not sure if a successful wiggle test would ease my mind for more than a few hundred miles at this point. Would be nice to have real peace of mind.
So you took your car there to have your heads inspected and they didn't tell you whether or not your guides passed or failed? Ask for the measurements, and if they don't have any, take your car somewhere else. The whole point of inspecting the heads it to measure the valve guide clearance and if they didn't do that then don't pay them. A diagnosis of "wasn't terrible" guide wear is useless. If this shop was recommended on the forum then you should have been given more info and explanation other than "it looks like it's from hard driving."

And damaged valve tips are not a common problem we see unless the heads were worked on and the installer did not re-install the lash caps. That would be a cause for concern if that is really the problem that you are describing. If the heads were messed with in any way, no warranty is going to cover a bad head job or installer error. Also, if this shop was any good they would have recognized the missing lash caps and told you.
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Old 07-23-2014, 08:13 AM   #15
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I'm a bit perplexed.....since your car has a warranty, why wouldn't you take it to a dealer? They actually do employ qualified techs y'know. And to the dealer's shop, a job is a job, they get paid just the same warranty or no warranty.

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Old 07-23-2014, 08:13 AM   #16
Mark2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tarostar View Post
Can't argue with you about wanting numbers or more info. Not sure if a successful wiggle test would ease my mind for more than a few hundred miles at this point. Would be nice to have real peace of mind.
Peace of mind is a state of mind, often illusive, and not particularly related to reality. I would suggest high quality cannabis Click the image to open in full size.

Otherwise I would suggest the stainless steel valve 'fix' for you, regardless of the condition of your current heads... that seems to give many great peace of mind
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:05 AM   #17
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Originally Posted by rsalco View Post
I'm a bit perplexed.....since your car has a warranty, why wouldn't you take it to a dealer? They actually do employ qualified techs y'know. And to the dealer's shop, a job is a job, they get paid just the same warranty or no warranty.

The qualified ones are few and far between...
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:10 AM   #18
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The qualified ones are few and far between...
Sorry, that is an inaccurate statement. But feel free to carry on with your all-too common belief system.

And, please, spare me all the anecdotal stories about this dealership and that dealership.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:19 AM   #19
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Sorry, that is an inaccurate statement. But feel free to carry on with your all-too common belief system.

And, please, spare me all the anecdotal stories about this dealership and that dealership.
That's your opinion...Feel free to keep your head buried in the sand pal. I bet you're actually one of these so called "qualified techs", aren't you? Wonder why so many folks on this forum can't seem to find a dealership "qualified" enough to perform a simple guide wear test...or even understand what that is???

I will abide your request and spare you any further humiliation...carry on.
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Old 07-23-2014, 09:29 AM   #20
Mark2009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rsalco View Post
I'm a bit perplexed.....since your car has a warranty, why wouldn't you take it to a dealer? They actually do employ qualified techs y'know. And to the dealer's shop, a job is a job, they get paid just the same warranty or no warranty.

A fear has been cultivated here that the typical warranty replacement -- new OEM heads -- are defective out of the box.

This fear is not totally unwarranted given some machining issues still occasionally discovered, but it leads to the belief that OEM parts in general are essentially defective and beyond rehabilitation. This is, of course, extreme but leads to the aftermarket solutions which are generally not available under warranty.

As to the anecdotal generalizations about dealers, it is hard to ignore them considering their proliferation. I'm sure there are good ones -- we have an outstanding one here as a supporting vendor -- but just walking in off the street how does one know if one has a good one or a bad one (can't even change the oil)?
.

Last edited by Mark2009; 07-23-2014 at 09:33 AM. Reason: sp
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