[Z06] C6 Z06 development/integration information
10-24-2014, 05:50 PM
#1
Advanced
Thread Starter
C6 Z06 development/integration information
All,
I'm working on a project for a systems engineering class, and I am basing it on the C6 Z06. The class is about systems integration and verification. I've found a lot of information through this site and links to it, but was hoping to find more, or at least people who might have access to some more information. A lot of this stuff isn't going to be general knowledge and I think a lot of what I'm looking for would be difficult to get from GM. For an idea of what I need, here is the writeup from the professor as an example of the kinds of questions to be able to answer.
learn a little about the requirements for the system, the roles and responsibilities of the integration team, and the process the team followed in integrating the final product. In your examination, look for good and bad integration practice. Answer questions like (but not limited to): “Was the real root cause of the problem for which this system was created to solve properly identified? Was a single integration authority identified and empowered effectively? What were the primary integration drivers? What engineering tools and techniques were used? Were key functions identified? Were they allocated well? What trade-offs were made during design and integration? How would you assess its producibility; its supportability? What heuristics or best practices were followed? How would you characterize the test and evaluation strategy? Were test results used effectively to inform integration decisions? Overall, is this a good integration effort or a poor one and why?”
Now, I'm doing the analysis, I'm just looking for the information to use as backup. For example, the engine was originally required to be a 450 HP engine, and then that creeped to a 500HP requirement. Ideally, I would have requirements documents, capabilities documents, test plans, lessons learned, etc, but I know that I can't get those. However, links to articles where those things are talked about would be great. The Z06 information collection available on the halltech corvette LS7 site is excellent, provides examples of testing, etc, but there isn't anywhere that I can find a lot of discussion of the effort of fitting the engine, drivetrain, chassis together, tradeoffs that had to be made, competing requirements, etc. Something else that seems to be limited is discussion of specific engineering problems in testing that required rework or redesign. If anyone has information like that or has contacts that I could talk to, please let me know. If you have links to articles besides what's available on the C6Z06 FAQ, I'd appreciate anything you have.
Eric
I'm working on a project for a systems engineering class, and I am basing it on the C6 Z06. The class is about systems integration and verification. I've found a lot of information through this site and links to it, but was hoping to find more, or at least people who might have access to some more information. A lot of this stuff isn't going to be general knowledge and I think a lot of what I'm looking for would be difficult to get from GM. For an idea of what I need, here is the writeup from the professor as an example of the kinds of questions to be able to answer.
learn a little about the requirements for the system, the roles and responsibilities of the integration team, and the process the team followed in integrating the final product. In your examination, look for good and bad integration practice. Answer questions like (but not limited to): “Was the real root cause of the problem for which this system was created to solve properly identified? Was a single integration authority identified and empowered effectively? What were the primary integration drivers? What engineering tools and techniques were used? Were key functions identified? Were they allocated well? What trade-offs were made during design and integration? How would you assess its producibility; its supportability? What heuristics or best practices were followed? How would you characterize the test and evaluation strategy? Were test results used effectively to inform integration decisions? Overall, is this a good integration effort or a poor one and why?”
Now, I'm doing the analysis, I'm just looking for the information to use as backup. For example, the engine was originally required to be a 450 HP engine, and then that creeped to a 500HP requirement. Ideally, I would have requirements documents, capabilities documents, test plans, lessons learned, etc, but I know that I can't get those. However, links to articles where those things are talked about would be great. The Z06 information collection available on the halltech corvette LS7 site is excellent, provides examples of testing, etc, but there isn't anywhere that I can find a lot of discussion of the effort of fitting the engine, drivetrain, chassis together, tradeoffs that had to be made, competing requirements, etc. Something else that seems to be limited is discussion of specific engineering problems in testing that required rework or redesign. If anyone has information like that or has contacts that I could talk to, please let me know. If you have links to articles besides what's available on the C6Z06 FAQ, I'd appreciate anything you have.
Eric
10-24-2014, 05:54 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
All,
I'm working on a project for a systems engineering class, and I am basing it on the C6 Z06. The class is about systems integration and verification. I've found a lot of information through this site and links to it, but was hoping to find more, or at least people who might have access to some more information. A lot of this stuff isn't going to be general knowledge and I think a lot of what I'm looking for would be difficult to get from GM. For an idea of what I need, here is the writeup from the professor as an example of the kinds of questions to be able to answer.
learn a little about the requirements for the system, the roles and responsibilities of the integration team, and the process the team followed in integrating the final product. In your examination, look for good and bad integration practice. Answer questions like (but not limited to): “Was the real root cause of the problem for which this system was created to solve properly identified? Was a single integration authority identified and empowered effectively? What were the primary integration drivers? What engineering tools and techniques were used? Were key functions identified? Were they allocated well? What trade-offs were made during design and integration? How would you assess its producibility; its supportability? What heuristics or best practices were followed? How would you characterize the test and evaluation strategy? Were test results used effectively to inform integration decisions? Overall, is this a good integration effort or a poor one and why?”
Now, I'm doing the analysis, I'm just looking for the information to use as backup. For example, the engine was originally required to be a 450 HP engine, and then that creeped to a 500HP requirement. Ideally, I would have requirements documents, capabilities documents, test plans, lessons learned, etc, but I know that I can't get those. However, links to articles where those things are talked about would be great. The Z06 information collection available on the halltech corvette LS7 site is excellent, provides examples of testing, etc, but there isn't anywhere that I can find a lot of discussion of the effort of fitting the engine, drivetrain, chassis together, tradeoffs that had to be made, competing requirements, etc. Something else that seems to be limited is discussion of specific engineering problems in testing that required rework or redesign. If anyone has information like that or has contacts that I could talk to, please let me know. If you have links to articles besides what's available on the C6Z06 FAQ, I'd appreciate anything you have.
Eric
I'm working on a project for a systems engineering class, and I am basing it on the C6 Z06. The class is about systems integration and verification. I've found a lot of information through this site and links to it, but was hoping to find more, or at least people who might have access to some more information. A lot of this stuff isn't going to be general knowledge and I think a lot of what I'm looking for would be difficult to get from GM. For an idea of what I need, here is the writeup from the professor as an example of the kinds of questions to be able to answer.
learn a little about the requirements for the system, the roles and responsibilities of the integration team, and the process the team followed in integrating the final product. In your examination, look for good and bad integration practice. Answer questions like (but not limited to): “Was the real root cause of the problem for which this system was created to solve properly identified? Was a single integration authority identified and empowered effectively? What were the primary integration drivers? What engineering tools and techniques were used? Were key functions identified? Were they allocated well? What trade-offs were made during design and integration? How would you assess its producibility; its supportability? What heuristics or best practices were followed? How would you characterize the test and evaluation strategy? Were test results used effectively to inform integration decisions? Overall, is this a good integration effort or a poor one and why?”
Now, I'm doing the analysis, I'm just looking for the information to use as backup. For example, the engine was originally required to be a 450 HP engine, and then that creeped to a 500HP requirement. Ideally, I would have requirements documents, capabilities documents, test plans, lessons learned, etc, but I know that I can't get those. However, links to articles where those things are talked about would be great. The Z06 information collection available on the halltech corvette LS7 site is excellent, provides examples of testing, etc, but there isn't anywhere that I can find a lot of discussion of the effort of fitting the engine, drivetrain, chassis together, tradeoffs that had to be made, competing requirements, etc. Something else that seems to be limited is discussion of specific engineering problems in testing that required rework or redesign. If anyone has information like that or has contacts that I could talk to, please let me know. If you have links to articles besides what's available on the C6Z06 FAQ, I'd appreciate anything you have.
Eric
Eric
Ya lost me at "Im working on a project"
Clif
10-24-2014, 06:14 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
10-24-2014, 06:31 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Integration problems, I would probably start with the TSB's issued against the c6z07, like the flying roof issue.
10-24-2014, 06:59 PM
#5
Instructor
Very cool project, I do this kind of work on avionics. However I suspect you won't be able to find the level of detail you need in acquired data. Company jewels...
10-24-2014, 07:26 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
10-25-2014, 01:53 PM
#7
Advanced
Thread Starter
Thanks, I did have that article but exactly the level of technical detail I'm talking about. There is quite a bit of information out there the problem is that none of it is in one place, and of course the real official documents are never going public. Here are some of the things I'm focusing on-
Engine-original HP target was 450, crept to 500 to compete with viper/porsche/ferrari, etc. forced a 7.0 liter engine
Weight - needed to be lighter than a C5Z06 - design decision, forced aluminum/magnesium pieces. This is the real integration nightmare here as the AL frame then had to be thicker than the stock steel in order to have close to the same rigidity, and the shape was tightly controlled so it would have the same attachment points as the original steel (common tooling/producibility considerations). Forced fixed roof.
Suspension - Interesting discussion here is how over about 6 years the car's track speed increased each year on the lightning lap with really only suspension tweaks (though the last C6Z run in that also had cup tires)
Testing/integration - 24 hour track test event - What I really need here is something this pointed out, like a design change forced by something they learned here. Didn't see anything in the article that pointed that way, and nothing indicated to me that it was specifically a validation test.
If anyone has anything at all to add, even if the source is hearsay, I'd be interested in hearing it. If someone has a source I could talk to on the phone for even 20 minutes, that would probably add everything I need to finish my second presentation.
The first presentation is pretty simple as it really is just an overview. The second one isnt for another month, that's what I am really looking for info on.
vray - I'll look into that roof issue, was that only on C6Z07? not the ZR1 as well?
DaOtherOne - Thanks again for the link.
Engine-original HP target was 450, crept to 500 to compete with viper/porsche/ferrari, etc. forced a 7.0 liter engine
Weight - needed to be lighter than a C5Z06 - design decision, forced aluminum/magnesium pieces. This is the real integration nightmare here as the AL frame then had to be thicker than the stock steel in order to have close to the same rigidity, and the shape was tightly controlled so it would have the same attachment points as the original steel (common tooling/producibility considerations). Forced fixed roof.
Suspension - Interesting discussion here is how over about 6 years the car's track speed increased each year on the lightning lap with really only suspension tweaks (though the last C6Z run in that also had cup tires)
Testing/integration - 24 hour track test event - What I really need here is something this pointed out, like a design change forced by something they learned here. Didn't see anything in the article that pointed that way, and nothing indicated to me that it was specifically a validation test.
If anyone has anything at all to add, even if the source is hearsay, I'd be interested in hearing it. If someone has a source I could talk to on the phone for even 20 minutes, that would probably add everything I need to finish my second presentation.
The first presentation is pretty simple as it really is just an overview. The second one isnt for another month, that's what I am really looking for info on.
vray - I'll look into that roof issue, was that only on C6Z07? not the ZR1 as well?
DaOtherOne - Thanks again for the link.
10-25-2014, 08:17 PM
#8
Drifting
http://www.sae.org/servlets/PaperEve...PROD_CD=PT-118
The link gets you to a SAE publication that came out around the time that the C6 Z06 was introduced. This is a collection of SAE papers, about half on the C6 Z06 and others are historical in nature. The link should give you the entire list of papers included.
It seems that the price has ranged all over the place over the years. If I recall correctly, it was $150 when it came out, and I saw it for as low as $25 a few years ago.
Not sure that this is exactly what you're looking for, but the papers do give a good insight on how metrics were developed, and the analysis/engineering to meet the metrics.
The link gets you to a SAE publication that came out around the time that the C6 Z06 was introduced. This is a collection of SAE papers, about half on the C6 Z06 and others are historical in nature. The link should give you the entire list of papers included.
It seems that the price has ranged all over the place over the years. If I recall correctly, it was $150 when it came out, and I saw it for as low as $25 a few years ago.
Not sure that this is exactly what you're looking for, but the papers do give a good insight on how metrics were developed, and the analysis/engineering to meet the metrics.
Last edited by acrace; 10-25-2014 at 08:19 PM.
10-28-2014, 05:59 PM
#10
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
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One thing you should look at is the book "All Corvettes are Red", it is an in depth journalists view of the inner workings of GM when they developed the C5. It discusses how they addressed a number of issue you mention along with a key element that you haven't talked about: COST. There are some other issues like internal politics which pretty much happen in all large companies and would represent the kinds of political battles that happen on the Customer side of things when you are developing and selling systems to the Government. Very interesting project. I worked in systems development for a large part of my career.
One thing I can tell you is the systems development process is considerably more difficult developing a system for the general public Vs developing a more specific capability like a military system. The potential number of requirements can be very high while the more specific nature of a project for a single Customer to meet a specific need constaints the number of requirements that have to be tracked and satisfied. Requirements for general purpose computing systems can approach infinity as there will always be at least one of the 7 plus billion people on the face of the earth who will use your system in a different manner than you planned.
Bill
One thing I can tell you is the systems development process is considerably more difficult developing a system for the general public Vs developing a more specific capability like a military system. The potential number of requirements can be very high while the more specific nature of a project for a single Customer to meet a specific need constaints the number of requirements that have to be tracked and satisfied. Requirements for general purpose computing systems can approach infinity as there will always be at least one of the 7 plus billion people on the face of the earth who will use your system in a different manner than you planned.
Bill
10-31-2014, 12:51 PM
#11
Advanced
Thread Starter
Bill, thanks for the book information, I ordered and it arrived last night, looks very interesting.
There wouldn't happen to be something like that for the C6 development? I figure I'll learn enough from the book to figure out the general idea and apply it.
You mention cost. This particular course is on integration and development, while cost is a major part of Systems Engineering, this course is more focused on the integration methodologies used, process, etc, and how it worked or not. At the end I'll need to recommend how they could have done better and talk about what they did right.
Of course I'm biased being a Z06 owner, and as embarrassed as I am to say it, the engineering aspects are pretty awesome, but the seats do stink! Certainly some aspects in the entertainment/nav system are both good and bad.
I may concentrate on the changes made over the life of the system to talk about the good and bad as obviously those changes were to address things they could have done better the first time. Any thoughts appreciated.
Eric
There wouldn't happen to be something like that for the C6 development? I figure I'll learn enough from the book to figure out the general idea and apply it.
You mention cost. This particular course is on integration and development, while cost is a major part of Systems Engineering, this course is more focused on the integration methodologies used, process, etc, and how it worked or not. At the end I'll need to recommend how they could have done better and talk about what they did right.
Of course I'm biased being a Z06 owner, and as embarrassed as I am to say it, the engineering aspects are pretty awesome, but the seats do stink! Certainly some aspects in the entertainment/nav system are both good and bad.
I may concentrate on the changes made over the life of the system to talk about the good and bad as obviously those changes were to address things they could have done better the first time. Any thoughts appreciated.
Eric
