[Z06] Logic of closing threads?
01-29-2015, 01:40 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Logic of closing threads?
We see an all too often trend lately in mod's closing threads that evolve into pi...ng contests.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
01-29-2015, 01:49 PM
#2
Team Owner
We see an all too often trend lately in mod's closing threads that evolve into pi...ng contests.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
I've seen it done...so not sure why it varies.
01-29-2015, 02:35 PM
#3
Drifting
01-29-2015, 02:37 PM
#4
If you don't like what some have to post, well then the ignore feature works just fine, and you will never see the posts from the people whom you have a beef with.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 01-29-2015 at 02:43 PM.
01-29-2015, 02:41 PM
#5
Drifting
And this is another piling on and axe grinding thread and hopefully will be locked as well.
Good.
If you don't like what some have to post, well then the ignore feature works just fine, and you will never see the posts from the people whom you have a beef with.
Good.
If you don't like what some have to post, well then the ignore feature works just fine, and you will never see the posts from the people whom you have a beef with.
01-29-2015, 02:44 PM
#6
Drifting
I took your advice and made a sandwich board yesterday, want to see it?
01-29-2015, 02:50 PM
#7
This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with.
No need for it when the ignore feature works just fine.
If you disagree with, or have a distaste for a fellow forum member's comments, well then no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read that forum member's comments.
Indeed, you don't even have to see them if you elect not to by choosing the ignore feature.
So then what really is the purpose of this thread???
:No, thank you.
01-29-2015, 02:54 PM
#8
Drifting
Well in this case, I hate that I have to be.
This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with.
No need for it when the ignore feature works just fine.
If you disagree with, or have a distaste for a fellow forum member's comments, well then no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read that forum member's comments.
Indeed, you don't even have to see them if you elect not to by choosing the ignore feature.
So then what really is the purpose of this thread???:
No, thank you.
This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with.
No need for it when the ignore feature works just fine.
If you disagree with, or have a distaste for a fellow forum member's comments, well then no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read that forum member's comments.
Indeed, you don't even have to see them if you elect not to by choosing the ignore feature.
So then what really is the purpose of this thread???
:No, thank you.
01-29-2015, 03:00 PM
#9
Race Director
We see an all too often trend lately in mod's closing threads that evolve into pi...ng contests.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
They typically start off with pertinent and legitimate topics that are Z06 related, totally appropriate and rightly should be shared with all interested parties.
Rather than close a thread that has reached the threshold for a lock, why not the moderators simply delete the questionable posts and let the post continue to serve the silent majority.
What happens is that the usual 2 main antagonists jump in to fire up their agenda- attempting to validate their own choice for "the fix", and now trying to save face for playing the role of pied piper and leading so many to follow into a flawed solution.
That is followed by a few other folks who respond with opposing views or alternatives who want the discussion to be balanced vs. biased, and then it's on. Take a good look at the rare threads where the antagonists stay out of the discussion and you'll notice 2 things. The discussions stay civil and informative...and the folks who have tried to present opposing views no longer need to play that role. Those are fruitful discussions, and are absent of the hostilities we unfortunately see so much of.
When the hostilities fly, the mods at some point step in to do what they need to do. It creates a lot of work for them, and I'm sure they don't appreciate it. Locking a thread is probably the easiest solution in many cases. After enough warnings to the antagonists, there must come a point at which vacations and bans are looked at- but I think the forum leashes can be pretty long in those areas. I don't envy the mods for the crap they need to wade through at times, but I do appreciate and respect how hard it can be to keep the peace and enforce the rules. Staying patient and keeping a balanced approach must be a huge challenge.
01-29-2015, 03:03 PM
#10
Drifting
I'm pretty sure the mods get as tired as we do of the bickering that has become all too predictable over the last 2-3 years. I always bear in mind that the mods are not paid for what they do nor do they often get thanked for it.
What happens is that the usual 2 main antagonists jump in to fire up their agenda- attempting to validate their own choice for "the fix", and now trying to save face for playing the role of pied piper and leading so many to follow into a flawed solution.
That is followed by a few other folks who respond with opposing views or alternatives who want the discussion to be balanced vs. biased, and then it's on. Take a good look at the rare threads where the antagonists stay out of the discussion and you'll notice 2 things. The discussions stay civil and informative...and the folks who have tried to present opposing views no longer need to play that role. Those are fruitful discussions, and are absent of the hostilities we unfortunately see so much of.
When the hostilities fly, the mods at some point step in to do what they need to do. It creates a lot of work for them, and I'm sure they don't appreciate it. Locking a thread is probably the easiest solution in many cases. After enough warnings to the antagonists, there must come a point at which vacations and bans are looked at- but I think the forum leashes can be pretty long in those areas. I don't envy the mods for the crap they need to wade through at times, but I do appreciate and respect how hard it can be to keep the peace and enforce the rules. Staying patient and keeping a balanced approach must be a huge challenge.
What happens is that the usual 2 main antagonists jump in to fire up their agenda- attempting to validate their own choice for "the fix", and now trying to save face for playing the role of pied piper and leading so many to follow into a flawed solution.
That is followed by a few other folks who respond with opposing views or alternatives who want the discussion to be balanced vs. biased, and then it's on. Take a good look at the rare threads where the antagonists stay out of the discussion and you'll notice 2 things. The discussions stay civil and informative...and the folks who have tried to present opposing views no longer need to play that role. Those are fruitful discussions, and are absent of the hostilities we unfortunately see so much of.
When the hostilities fly, the mods at some point step in to do what they need to do. It creates a lot of work for them, and I'm sure they don't appreciate it. Locking a thread is probably the easiest solution in many cases. After enough warnings to the antagonists, there must come a point at which vacations and bans are looked at- but I think the forum leashes can be pretty long in those areas. I don't envy the mods for the crap they need to wade through at times, but I do appreciate and respect how hard it can be to keep the peace and enforce the rules. Staying patient and keeping a balanced approach must be a huge challenge.
Well stated, and thank you 
01-29-2015, 03:05 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Well in this case, I hate that I have to be.
This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with.
No need for it when the ignore feature works just fine.
If you disagree with, or have a distaste for a fellow forum member's comments, well then no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read that forum member's comments.
Indeed, you don't even have to see them if you elect not to by choosing the ignore feature.
So then what really is the purpose of this thread???:
No, thank you.
This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with.
No need for it when the ignore feature works just fine.
If you disagree with, or have a distaste for a fellow forum member's comments, well then no one is putting a gun to your head and making you read that forum member's comments.
Indeed, you don't even have to see them if you elect not to by choosing the ignore feature.
So then what really is the purpose of this thread???
:No, thank you.
01-29-2015, 03:14 PM
#12
Le Mans Master
Clif
01-29-2015, 03:14 PM
#13
1. Started by a customer of a shop that you are familiar with, and a customer who is just as adamant and vocal about promoting that shop as you are, if not more adamant. I've looked at some of his posts, and it seems that sometimes he just hangs out there and shoots the breeze.
https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...6-excited.html
In fact, his own heads are supposedly in spec. Now how happen, that he just somehow "stumbles" across that video in that thread, that you mention above, of somebody else's heads?? A video, which was said to be for the customer. Ever hear of Dropbox????
Forum membver ctsv510, called it right, and he called it early on in that thread that you refer to
2. Car does not even belong to the thread starter.
3. Car does not appear to belong to a forum member, but supposedly belongs to a customer of the shop.
4. Current owner of the car is not even the original owner of the car and not the owner who had the heads put on by a "rival" shop. So the current owner bought the car second hand. Apparently neither current nor prior owners are members in here.
5. Because of #4, no specifics about the car, none, including the cam, etc, how the car was behaving, what caused the removal of the head, can be first hand verified.
6. Head is off the car, and a "wiggle test" supposedly requested, by the owner who sent the head in. Odd since the head is already off the car and direct measurement was not done, but wiggle testing done.
7. The video was said to be for the customer, but it was posted publicly.
8. Unusually strong effort was made in not one, but both videos to point out the logo of the rival shop.
9. The video magically showed up, after the results of the poll put up started to shake out.
The timing is curious. It reminds me of a political poll where one candidate is losing, and his camp decides to step up his ad campaign.
10. No one knows how the heads ended up in the condition that they appear from the video to be in.
The whole thing to me, looked like a commercial. One which was not supposed to be recognized as such.
Now, if asking questions, and expressing concerns about the above, in your mind somehow constitutes "ruining the thread", well then guilty as charged.
If I respond to it, aside from the way that I am now, well then it brings me down to his level and things truly do go downhill and you have just what it is that you're complaining about.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 01-29-2015 at 03:39 PM.
01-29-2015, 03:27 PM
#14
01-29-2015, 03:33 PM
#15
[...] This is nothing more than an ax grinding thread, and it will be ridden with posts similar to the one that you apparently edited, and permeated with a sentiment similar to the one you displayed.
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with. [...] So then what really is the purpose of this thread???:[....]
A "gripe session", if you will.
But unfortunately, that is it's purpose to begin with. [...] So then what really is the purpose of this thread???
:[....]
Last edited by Mark2009; 01-29-2015 at 03:35 PM.
01-29-2015, 03:43 PM
#17
Drifting
I'm glad you bring that up, because I've been thinking about that thread today.
1. Started by a customer of a shop that you are familiar with, and a customer who is just as adamant and vocal about promoting that shop as you are, if not more adamant. The customer was in the shop visiting his car as he is waiting on parts to finish his build, I addressed that yesterday.
2. Car does not even belong to the thread starter. Correct, who cares, he saw the Out-of-Spec WCCH Heads himself and decided to post up a thread about it.
3. Car does not appear to belong to a forum member, but supposedly belongs to a customer of the shop. I am not sure if it belongs to a forum member or not, that is a question for AHP.
4. Current owner of the car is not even the original owner of the car and not the owner who had the heads put on by a "rival" shop. So the current owner bought the car second hand. Apparently neither current nor prior owners are members in here. Is everyone here the original owners of their Z? I bought my 2008 used at a Dealership, I have no knowledge of my car other than a CarFax, AHP stated what the current owner knows about the car, and what the previous owner told him when he bought it.
5. Because of #4, no specifics about the car, none, including the cam, etc, how the car was behaving, what caused the removal of the head, can be first hand verified. That was one of the questions we were waiting to hear back from AHP, what prompted the customer to pull the heads, was it making noises, burning oil, etc.
6. Head is off the car, and a "wiggle test" supposedly requested, by the owner who sent the head in. Odd since the head is already off the car and direct measurement was not done, but wiggle testing done. A wiggle test was requested by the customer as AHP stated, even a monkey can tell by watching the videos those guides were totally shot. Do you want to pay AHP some extra money for further testing, you know take apart everything, spend the time to Mic/Bore Gauge Test and write down all the measurements just to satisfy you and Howie?
7. The video was said to be for the customer, but it was posted publicly. AHP takes pictures and videos of everything they do, I have some of when my car was done, Kohle asked me if I wanted anything posted on the forum, said nope, just fix my car. AHP was accused of lying the last time he came across another Out-of Spec WCCH Head, well I guess you now have the proof you are looking for.
8. Strong effort was made in the video to point out the logo of the rival shop. Who cares, it is pointing out the obvious, again I go back to him being called a liar on the first set of WCCH Heads, now he has proof in a video, I would do the same.
9. The video magically showed up, after the results of the poll put up started to shake out. So can AHP magically have a customer ship their heads to them due to a forum poll and might I add another pissing match? I wish my clients would send me business right when I need it to prove others wrong, I would buy a lottery ticket the same day.
The timing is curious. It reminds me of a political poll where one candidate is losing, and his camp decides to step up his ad campaign.
AHP is too busy with work to have to worry about a poll or what people like you think. He is in the middle of a shop expansion, installing more lifts, building a clean room for engine builds, etc. The guy is not hurting for customers.
10. No one knows how the heads ended up in the condition that they appear from the video to be in. Hmmmm Let's see the customer drove his car and the previous owner drove it as well like all of us do, it was stated that both previous and current owners use was street driven.
The whole thing to me, looked like a commercial. One which was not supposed to be recognized as such. No, it was a video taken at a shop where work is done on cars, a video of Out-of-Spec WCCH Heads. A true commercial would have the owner say a few words about the shop, a tour of the facility, and how to contact them - this was not a "Commercial"
You see, that's a personal attack, and it violates the rules.
If I respond to it, aside from the way that I am now, well then it brings me down to his level and things truly do go downhill and you have just what it is that you're complaining about.
1. Started by a customer of a shop that you are familiar with, and a customer who is just as adamant and vocal about promoting that shop as you are, if not more adamant. The customer was in the shop visiting his car as he is waiting on parts to finish his build, I addressed that yesterday.
2. Car does not even belong to the thread starter. Correct, who cares, he saw the Out-of-Spec WCCH Heads himself and decided to post up a thread about it.
3. Car does not appear to belong to a forum member, but supposedly belongs to a customer of the shop. I am not sure if it belongs to a forum member or not, that is a question for AHP.
4. Current owner of the car is not even the original owner of the car and not the owner who had the heads put on by a "rival" shop. So the current owner bought the car second hand. Apparently neither current nor prior owners are members in here. Is everyone here the original owners of their Z? I bought my 2008 used at a Dealership, I have no knowledge of my car other than a CarFax, AHP stated what the current owner knows about the car, and what the previous owner told him when he bought it.
5. Because of #4, no specifics about the car, none, including the cam, etc, how the car was behaving, what caused the removal of the head, can be first hand verified. That was one of the questions we were waiting to hear back from AHP, what prompted the customer to pull the heads, was it making noises, burning oil, etc.
6. Head is off the car, and a "wiggle test" supposedly requested, by the owner who sent the head in. Odd since the head is already off the car and direct measurement was not done, but wiggle testing done. A wiggle test was requested by the customer as AHP stated, even a monkey can tell by watching the videos those guides were totally shot. Do you want to pay AHP some extra money for further testing, you know take apart everything, spend the time to Mic/Bore Gauge Test and write down all the measurements just to satisfy you and Howie?
7. The video was said to be for the customer, but it was posted publicly. AHP takes pictures and videos of everything they do, I have some of when my car was done, Kohle asked me if I wanted anything posted on the forum, said nope, just fix my car. AHP was accused of lying the last time he came across another Out-of Spec WCCH Head, well I guess you now have the proof you are looking for.
8. Strong effort was made in the video to point out the logo of the rival shop. Who cares, it is pointing out the obvious, again I go back to him being called a liar on the first set of WCCH Heads, now he has proof in a video, I would do the same.
9. The video magically showed up, after the results of the poll put up started to shake out. So can AHP magically have a customer ship their heads to them due to a forum poll and might I add another pissing match? I wish my clients would send me business right when I need it to prove others wrong, I would buy a lottery ticket the same day.
The timing is curious. It reminds me of a political poll where one candidate is losing, and his camp decides to step up his ad campaign.
AHP is too busy with work to have to worry about a poll or what people like you think. He is in the middle of a shop expansion, installing more lifts, building a clean room for engine builds, etc. The guy is not hurting for customers.
10. No one knows how the heads ended up in the condition that they appear from the video to be in. Hmmmm Let's see the customer drove his car and the previous owner drove it as well like all of us do, it was stated that both previous and current owners use was street driven.
The whole thing to me, looked like a commercial. One which was not supposed to be recognized as such. No, it was a video taken at a shop where work is done on cars, a video of Out-of-Spec WCCH Heads. A true commercial would have the owner say a few words about the shop, a tour of the facility, and how to contact them - this was not a "Commercial"
You see, that's a personal attack, and it violates the rules.
If I respond to it, aside from the way that I am now, well then it brings me down to his level and things truly do go downhill and you have just what it is that you're complaining about.
01-29-2015, 03:53 PM
#18
You are concerned about rules? You posted a picture of my car in a thread without my consent, you made fun of the windshield banner on my car, you suggested I go make a sandwich board so I can stand out on the street corner to promote AHP. Pot meet Kettle, Kettle meet Pot
Here, watch again how it works:
Final portion of the American Heritage Performance Review:
Flew from Phoenix, AZ into Long Beach Saturday morning, my In Laws picked us up and we headed over to the shop to pick up both cars, when we arrived Kohle had already washed both of our cars, they looked great, he also installed his shop logo decal on our windshields (with our prior approval). He then went over each car in detail what was done, we already knew what was done with the heads, but he went over how they do things and the why behind it. I will tell anyone reading this review; he treats a customer's Z06 as if it was his own car. Then we went over both shop bills, line item by line item, no surprises, exactly as quoted over the phone. We shook hands, he thanked us for our business and we thanked him for taking great care of our cars and the quality of the work that was done.
1st leg of our trip was from his shop in Harbor City, CA to Yucca Valley, CA which was 132 miles, since it was all freeway/highway driving never really got an opportunity to get on it, so this drive was just cruising along. First thing I noticed after driving for a while was how quiet my engine is now, like 75% quieter than before I dropped it off, since I bought my car with approximately 21,000 on it and took it in at 27,000 - all I knew was how the valve train sounded, now I can tell you it was noisy with the out of spec guides. I am very in tune to my cars always listening to how the engine sounds, etc., it was a very noticeable difference. So I am very happy about this aspect.
2nd leg of our trip home was today going from Yucca Valley, CA to Prescott Valley, AZ which is 315 Miles. Packed up, headed out on the road, first 60 miles just cruised along, came to a stop sign to change roads and ran her hard 1st through 3rd, I swear he must have sneaked in a tune on my car (he did not) because it ran like a raped ape, had great smooth power that just kept on pulling. Being out in the middle of the desert it was all 2 lane roads, of course you have to do a lot of passing with truckers and slow drivers, had about 7 opportunities to drop her down to 3rd going about 60 Mph, nail it to pass and by the time I got around the trucks/cars was doing *** MPH, then slowed back down to the speed limit. The car just plain runs flawless
My research and gut instinct to take both cars to American Heritage Performance was worth all of the driving, flying, gas, meals, hotels, and paying my shop bill. Top notch shop, and thanks again Kohle for a great experience
Here are a couple pics of our cars I took during a pit stop on the way to Yucca Valley:
Flew from Phoenix, AZ into Long Beach Saturday morning, my In Laws picked us up and we headed over to the shop to pick up both cars, when we arrived Kohle had already washed both of our cars, they looked great, he also installed his shop logo decal on our windshields (with our prior approval). He then went over each car in detail what was done, we already knew what was done with the heads, but he went over how they do things and the why behind it. I will tell anyone reading this review; he treats a customer's Z06 as if it was his own car. Then we went over both shop bills, line item by line item, no surprises, exactly as quoted over the phone. We shook hands, he thanked us for our business and we thanked him for taking great care of our cars and the quality of the work that was done.
1st leg of our trip was from his shop in Harbor City, CA to Yucca Valley, CA which was 132 miles, since it was all freeway/highway driving never really got an opportunity to get on it, so this drive was just cruising along. First thing I noticed after driving for a while was how quiet my engine is now, like 75% quieter than before I dropped it off, since I bought my car with approximately 21,000 on it and took it in at 27,000 - all I knew was how the valve train sounded, now I can tell you it was noisy with the out of spec guides. I am very in tune to my cars always listening to how the engine sounds, etc., it was a very noticeable difference. So I am very happy about this aspect.
2nd leg of our trip home was today going from Yucca Valley, CA to Prescott Valley, AZ which is 315 Miles. Packed up, headed out on the road, first 60 miles just cruised along, came to a stop sign to change roads and ran her hard 1st through 3rd, I swear he must have sneaked in a tune on my car (he did not) because it ran like a raped ape, had great smooth power that just kept on pulling. Being out in the middle of the desert it was all 2 lane roads, of course you have to do a lot of passing with truckers and slow drivers, had about 7 opportunities to drop her down to 3rd going about 60 Mph, nail it to pass and by the time I got around the trucks/cars was doing *** MPH, then slowed back down to the speed limit. The car just plain runs flawless
My research and gut instinct to take both cars to American Heritage Performance was worth all of the driving, flying, gas, meals, hotels, and paying my shop bill. Top notch shop, and thanks again Kohle for a great experience
Here are a couple pics of our cars I took during a pit stop on the way to Yucca Valley:
All anyone has to do is click the reply button on your post, and it comes up ready for reply, along with the picture that you posted in it.
So a "quote" from this message board, and clear indication that it was you and not I who posted it up, no. Now if I "copy" your picture and post it anywhere without your permission, that's different. But all I did was quote your own post and put up my reply to it.
Also, I believe that I made my comments after an incendiary comment of your own. Am I correct???
So yes, pot, meet kettle.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 01-29-2015 at 03:59 PM.
01-29-2015, 03:59 PM
#19
Drifting
I don't need your consent to post the picture of your car because I didn't post it. You did and I was quoting a post that you made, and it appears in the quote.
Here, watch again how it works:
All anyone has to do is click the reply button on your post, and it comes up ready for reply, along with the picture that you posted in it.
So a "quote" from this message board, and clear indication that it was you and not I who posted it up, no.
Also, I believe that I made my comments after an incendiary comment of your own. Am I correct???
So yes, pot, meet kettle.
Here, watch again how it works:
All anyone has to do is click the reply button on your post, and it comes up ready for reply, along with the picture that you posted in it.
So a "quote" from this message board, and clear indication that it was you and not I who posted it up, no.
Also, I believe that I made my comments after an incendiary comment of your own. Am I correct???
So yes, pot, meet kettle.
So if you want to be a dick, here is your sandwich board I found on the corner at WCCH.
01-29-2015, 04:01 PM
#20
And on this forum, any quote, of any post, can and often times has been, made anywhere on this forum.
Does this forum have your permission to reproduce your picture?
Because it does so by default each and every time your post is quoted anywhere within this forum.
If you don't want that picture shown whenever or wherever your post is quoted, and I can see why you wouldn't, well then you need to delete it from your original post.
Because as long as your post is quoted, anywhere in here, well then your pics are going to show up with it.
Last edited by '06 Quicksilver Z06; 01-29-2015 at 04:19 PM.
