Michael_D

I'd love to see your tune file, to see what magic you have done...or whomever it was who tuned the car...... I've been screwing with my tune the past two years, trying to get it to behave under 2500 rpm. It is no where near, not even in the same city as the ballpark of "drives like stock".

And let me get this straight..... you dyno'd 600 rwhp, 91 octane, and the cam has 231 @ 50 intake duration?

I'm having trouble with that. Takes closer to 240 to get 600 at that wheels.

Gizmo5

See ya

tonypittman

650 whp. Great drivability. Not the cheapest way though.

Michael_D

Chasis dyno, yes..... Engine dyno, not so much. The OP however did have 600 rwhp listed as his goal, and I just don't see that happening with the cam your using and 91 octane.

I will PM you my email address? I am using the HPT 2 bar custom op system. Might be easier to send me your file, as I'm not sure that you'll be able see mine.

Unreal

Great varies on opinion. I thought my 240/250 110LSA car drove great, and it did. But drive it back to back with a stock cam car, or a blower car and it was like "Wow, i though it drove great but this is soooo much better"

OP needs to go drive some 550+hp cammed cars to see what his opinion of driving great is.

And 600rwhp, sure but 600rwhp on a cammed car and drives like stock is not even close to realistic. Drives good, yes. Drives like stock, not happening.

Josh B.

611rwhp here with 235* intake duration. OP's power goal is realistic, my tune was completed on 92 octane, I think 91 would be negligible in terms of power production.

IMHO, Z06's should be N/A. FI is unquestionably the easiest way to make power with minimal loss of drivability, but the Z06 pedigree is lost. This is not an anti-blower rant, simply an expression for my love of N/A. I've had Prochargers on my Mustangs, big power, fun, but anyone with a belt and ARP headbolts can make power with a big enough leaf blower on the inlet.

-Fuel system
I'm on stock fuel injectors still. I don't have the exact injector duty cycle percentage, but I trust VR to have ensured it was safe. Try making over six hundo to the tires with FI on the stock injectors, it won't happen. Brake specific fuel consumption, making more power with less fuel. Does that matter to most people? Probably not, but I like efficiency within a combination, so BSFC means something to me.

-Cooling, not a big concern for street guys, I want my coolant temps manageable and my oil temps within spec if I ever track my car. I have no idea how tracked blower guys are with temps, but I would be interested in learning.

-Weight, again, pedigree. Lightweight N/A bruiser with an alum frame.

-More failure points. Procharger kit from back in the day would eat up tensioners/bearings. Even with more refinement and reliability in better kits, in the back of my mind I would always be concerned that I'm about to throw a belt or damage a tensioner, or belt slip...

-Cost

and lastly

-Exhaust Lope makes the panties drop. WRX whoosing noises raises the panties up.

Chris Edwards

Maybe I should recalibrate my goals. 600rwhp is merely a metaphor for a properly thought out build, with optimized quench, valve events, and parts selection. Ok how about my main question. Ported Fast 102 vs ported Stock LS7 intake? Every single post I've read says the Fast 102 will make more average power, with minimal peak gains. I assume the NW102 tb would provide some gains, but will either the Fast or the NW tb HURT driveability or allow the potential to improve it given the tune is dialed?

Michael_D

Happy dynos everywhere it would seem.

That would put you about 700 at the crank. You say your are at 611 with stock injectors, then you say stock injectors won't support 600 at the wheels? Did I miss something?

I can show you my spark tables, tuned for 90 octane, and you can compare them to the OE tables. It'll make a believer out of you that one point does make a difference. I'm about 15 deg total in the peak MAP/RPM areas of the table. A reduction of 10 deg from stock.

Unreal

Niether. MSD with 102 if max power is your goal.

Josh B.

OP, Heads and cam that mother f&cker. Blowers are for Mustangs, they have their place in this world, but not on a Z06 IMHO.

Unreal

Unless you want to go really fast or have a great driving car IMO. Done heads cam, went to blower, would never go back.

Josh B.

The OP specified "factory shortblock" not fortified internals, "really fast" with a blower is hard to achieve with that in mind. Unless I'm misinformed, I typically hear about FI LS7s putting out something around 650rwhp with the factory shortblock and LS7 cam. Not impressive when H/C/I builds can achieve 600+ with daily driveable cams.

Respectfully, You don't need 240+ intake duration (the giant cams that gave cammed cars a bad reputation for drivability) to make over six bills at the tires, 235* is very street friendly, I idle my K501 car through my neighborhood several nights a week when my toddler wants to go for a ride in "daddy's yellow car", really put-putting around!

With factory shortblock as a limitation, I think the slight power advantage of a blower makes the choice more clear. C6Zs were made for naturally aspirated lightweight performance. I get a chubby when I hear about a H/C/I Z lay the smack down on a ZR1. Of course the ZR1 has more potential, but it's in a different category of car, IMO. And so is the Viper T/A. If all new Z06s (C8, C9) use FI, then I am very happy to own the last example of real Z06 pedigree, an N/A 427. FI will make more power with less fuss, but then, so does a GTR, heck, those even have twin clutch transmission and launch like a catapult from a carrier. But then it's not a Z06.

Gizmo5

I can tractor idle uphill in my car, zero bucking, zero clutch feathering, just idle.

I love how people (on this forum) always seem to take the position that since they cant get it done than its impossible for others. silly internet...

I posted my entire build for reference for others to see what I did and what my results were. I wanted maximum ROI for each part, not just a huge cam with a cool name lol.

Everything has to work, ported heads the flow X amount need a cam that pulls in X amount, but if your manifold doesnt flow X amount..... You get the point.

Im with JB on this one, OP, research and go about you options the best way you see fit. I did and LOVE my car now. Good luck with it all

Josh B.

I think the following videos are relevant to consider as well.

620rwhp ZR1 vs 606rwhp Heads Cam Z06

630rwhp Grand Sport (supercharged) vs 606rwhp Heads Cam Z06

Michael_D

I think I need to find a recent quote of yours taking about passive aggression so you can read it while looking in the mirror.

Settle down. I'm not arguing with you, just trying to find particulars. I hate boost of any sort. I also hate laughing gas. I'm an N/A engine builder, unless the client insists on boost or spray, or...it's required to be competitive.

And you were the one who said "my tune was completed on 92 octane, I think 91 would be negligible in terms of power production."

Maybe not a great reduction in peak power with one or two points, but "drivability" greatly suffers through the off idle/low rpm/mid range transients.

Gizmo5

See ya

MyLS1Hauls

A true 600rwhp C6Z is capable of 138 in the 1/4. I don't see many do it. It takes a lot of intake duration to hit these numbers. All of the guys at the top of the Fast list have huge cams. When I see a guy run 138mph+ in a close to stock weight Z, with a 231* cam, I will retract my statement.

There is no way to make a big cam drive like stock. You can't tune out reversion...and that is what is causing the bucking. I've owned/driven a lot of cammed LSx cars over the years. The ones that I've enjoyed the most, have had more moderately sized cams.

Unreal

That timing table looks pretty good compared to some out here I've seen. This time of year on Arizona 91 that is about all a cammed LS7 will take.

Michael_D

Trolling you?? Why in the fck would you even imply something so ludicrous???

You look at my spark table, in comparison to yours, and come to this conclusion, and that "my tune is all f**cked up, and you don't know where to start"..

Who's trolling who? Spark is only one very small part of tuning a car. And I f'ing told you, I'm running 90 octane! Is that all you can do, jack a spark table and play with PE? Where's your VE? What did you do with the transients, you even know how with an E38?

Where did I say 600 whp wasn't possible? Quote it. I said you'd need "about" 240 / fifty intake duration to get there.

So I showed you my tune, show me yours superstar. I have NOTHING to hide. I'll post the g'dam file and logs for the world to see.

Trolling you.....good grief. Give Kohle a call and ask him about me if you really think that. He's one of the very few who knows a bit about me.

Josh B.

PM sent, off topic with ad hominem remark.