When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
St. Jude Donor '03-'04-'05-'06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13
A couple of the guys above have had a number of days on track with their car and did some very good advice for you. Bill has had his car on track for YEARS and knows his car very well and some things he has had to replace on his own car.
LFZ is another that has a number of track days on his car and can tell you some good upgrades to do.
These guys are close to you and are dealers of ours, just tell them I sent you!
Spend some time with the car and get used to it. Also spend time on the track and get familiar with it and learn the track. Mostly your times are going to drop on track from tires and driver experience.
Safety. Make sure you and your car have proper and good safety gear. From your helmet down to the brake pads and fluids in the car. You can't have fun unless you and your car are both safe as you can make it. You are going to find suggestions on here on items like you would on what is a good beer...so look around. I would be happy to help you with some of the items we carry and what we use and run on our race cars.
From that point on...it's game on for upgrades; weight reduction, more power, better brakes, better tires, suspension, aero....you name it.
First, my tires are bad and I know it. I have Pilot Sports (not PSS), and they are old (I can see some dry rot). However, I can somewhat differentiate the tires from the suspension.
Drag Strip / Highway Pull: The worst I ever felt was at the drag strip. Just about all the way through 3rd gear the back end was bouncing left to right so bad I seriously thought about lifting. I stayed in it thinking it would calm down but it end up doing it never did. I've felt this on highway pulls in 3rd and 4th as well.
RoadCourse:
>Straightaway - same issue as above plus another issue, the straight away is bumpy plus has elevation change. I could feel the rear tires skipping over the bumps, slipping then regaining traction is one issue but then that upset the car and I started getting some of that back and forth movement.
>Corners - Yes I could wait a little to roll on and/or roll on throttle softer. This is more of a budget vs desire decision here.
New and better tires should make the whole experience better so I might try that first along with a full inspection and potential alignment of the suspension. I'll definitely do the brake and motor fluids and I'll look into the brake cooling and perhaps even getting some blanks and better pads.
The head job is really hard to swallow. That is a lot of money to spend for no performance benefit. I know this is old news to you guys but man this really makes owning this car far less enjoyable. I absolutely love it but that risk really hangs over your head.
All other suggestions are welcome and I really appreciate the help so far. I think I have some options so I just need to do some research and make a decision.
Here are a couple of suggestions about what might be causing this.
First, is the rear alignment. How much rear toe are you running? A lot of rear toe in can cause the backend to hop back and forth on a bumpy surface.
Maybe your rear camber eccentrics are loose and changing under hard acceleration.
Loose hub or loose tie rod end.
Has the car been lowered? If so you might be getting some bump steer.
Anthony's post is right on. If you don't control yourself and your desires you can easily go from driving your street car to the track to driving your 18 wheeler with two race cars in it and a full complement of tools/spare parts. It can become addicting. I tell new students it is the 2nd most fun thing you can do in a car and in a Corvette it is probably the first fun thing since the other activity would be pretty hard to do in a Vette.
Bill
Last edited by Bill Dearborn; 10-28-2015 at 05:38 PM.
Valves, either have redone or warranty, then redo before warranty expires like I will next summer.
Brakes, fluid and cooling. Fluids at least 600*F boiling point, like Motul RBF 600, 660 or Castrol 600+ fluid. Cooling, Quantum brake ducts out to the rotors from OEM duct modified for 3" outlet using hardware store 3" aluminum vent outlets pop-riveted to the modified duct, the 4" cooling from both sides of the grill inlet as shown here: https://www.corvetteforum.com/forums...-new-look.html I can help you with parts list for the 4" ducts ($70 very well spent).
Upgrade the factory shocks as the rears do not deal with bumps well. DRM Bilsteins work.
Yes the stock car rolls and squats/dives, but that does not hurt the handling.
For the limited experience you have and the limited amount of track time expected, you do not need to spend lots of hardware $, you want the car to be reliable, safe and well driven.
Ok I'm probably going to catch crap but here is my suggestion. For anyone who wants to learn and get really fast on a road course ...
Step 1 Get a momentum car (Miata BRZ S2000) spend 15 20 days on track with the momentum car then sell it and start the path to putting down power ....
What you get is a cheap way to learn how to handle a car on the edge with much less cost and much less consequences if things go wrong ...
Also it may only cost you less than a set of slicks for all that track time after you sell the car !
At that point you can relearn the power part of the equation...
I started with a 750 hp Camaro .. Then a Miata then a BRZ (2:16 at VIR with 180 hp) became an instructor ...for more track time . Now with the C6Z what I have found (25-35 track days a year) momentum cars are cheap to run and fun to drive..the Vette is a blast but not cheap. IE 1 set of brakes per year on a momentum car vers every 3-6 track days at 800 bucks .. Tires last for ever on a momentum car ...not so much on the Vette at 1750 a set ....
What I'm tring to say is it's more fun and easer on the wallet and safer to just get a track beater to start with... My 2 cents
Ps every time I swap brake pads I keep the rotors with those pads . Swapping both at one time that way beding in pads is no big deal.
This is a good point....OE rotors are fairly inexpensive on the interwebs, although when I go to buy them...I have to fight my hand off to not buy the 2 piece front/rears that would cost me nearly $1800.....
has anyone mentioned trans and differential lube changes?
. One question --do we have water pump cavitation in the higher rpms?
In the c6Z I run Amsoil "torque drive" in the trans and "sever gear" on the rear diff w/ one bottle of posi lock if needed. These synthetic fluids look new when I change every year. They hold up extremely well but as I mentioned I am running HPDE's not racing for hours. These are 20 min sessions and I do cool down laps and runs afterwards. I have used Amsoil for 15 years on several tracked cars and it is great stuff w/ good analysis from blackstone. 15/50w Mobil 1 for track only, Napa(wix) gold fliter#7060, Motul 600 for clutch and brakes. 160 thermostat 90/10 water w/ water wetter. Cavitation a non issue.
Transmission and dif fluid changes every 24 track hours, w/GM recommended fluids. Grease the two Zerk fittings on the trailing rear arms (one each on the outer end of the trailing arm in the rear suspension) before every track session/weekend with quality synthetic grease (I have Royal Purple). I use M1 0W-40 year-round and change it when the maintenance reminder gets below 30%. Blackstone Lab analyses always show I could have gone longer.
First, my tires are bad and I know it. I have Pilot Sports (not PSS), and they are old (I can see some dry rot). However, I can somewhat differentiate the tires from the suspension.
Drag Strip / Highway Pull: The worst I ever felt was at the drag strip. Just about all the way through 3rd gear the back end was bouncing left to right so bad I seriously thought about lifting. I stayed in it thinking it would calm down but it end up doing it never did. I've felt this on highway pulls in 3rd and 4th as well.
All other suggestions are welcome and I really appreciate the help so far. I think I have some options so I just need to do some research and make a decision.
Search for "high speed death wobble" on this forum. I think you're suffering from the same thing I am (along with many others) with the MPSS. I experienced nearly the same exact thing with my MPSS at the drag strip. Maybe the first mod should be tires. You can contact Michelin, they send you to Discount Tire for an inspection and you could get a possible credit on some new MPSS (which may solve the problem). Best of luck, and thanks to all the posters for great advice, I learned a lot in this thread...
Search for "high speed death wobble" on this forum. I think you're suffering from the same thing I am (along with many others) with the MPSS. I experienced nearly the same exact thing with my MPSS at the drag strip. Maybe the first mod should be tires. You can contact Michelin, they send you to Discount Tire for an inspection and you could get a possible credit on some new MPSS (which may solve the problem). Best of luck, and thanks to all the posters for great advice, I learned a lot in this thread...
He indicated he had old Pilot Sport tires. Those are not PSS that have had the problem with some tires. The Pilot Sport tires are two generations older, with the PS2's in between.
I got my PSS 2 weeks after the 325's became available in Feb. 2012 and have not had any problems with them with 5 pulls over 190 and over 400 miles at 150+.
Tires (I like R888s), brakes (I like EBC's & Motul), and as much camber as your stock car can go. Throw in a bottle of that cooling stuff too, that makes your coolant more effective.
That's all you need equipment wise to go very very fast. Your car is a heck of a car stock.
You have to do the heads, not because you are tracking but because you have a Z06. If you don't do it now, you will absolutely have to do it before you sell the car or it won't have any resale value. So just do it.
Ok I'm probably going to catch crap but here is my suggestion. For anyone who wants to learn and get really fast on a road course ...
Step 1 Get a momentum car (Miata BRZ S2000) spend 15 20 days on track with the momentum car then sell it and start the path to putting down power ....
What you get is a cheap way to learn how to handle a car on the edge with much less cost and much less consequences if things go wrong ...
Also it may only cost you less than a set of slicks for all that track time after you sell the car !
At that point you can relearn the power part of the equation...
I started with a 750 hp Camaro .. Then a Miata then a BRZ (2:16 at VIR with 180 hp) became an instructor ...for more track time . Now with the C6Z what I have found (25-35 track days a year) momentum cars are cheap to run and fun to drive..the Vette is a blast but not cheap. IE 1 set of brakes per year on a momentum car vers every 3-6 track days at 800 bucks .. Tires last for ever on a momentum car ...not so much on the Vette at 1750 a set ....
What I'm tring to say is it's more fun and easer on the wallet and safer to just get a track beater to start with... My 2 cents
Ps every time I swap brake pads I keep the rotors with those pads . Swapping both at one time that way beding in pads is no big deal.
There is a lot to be said for this approach. Miata's are fairly cheap to run, parts are cheap and tires/brakes last a long time compared to the Vette world. You can spend most of your money on learning how to drive Vs a large share of it on parts. Running a momentum car teaches you a lot about handling and what line to run. One of my first students had an MR2. I was coaching him to open up thru the Esses at the Glen when he said the throttle is floored and this is as fast as its going to get. He only had 134 HP. I then started looking for a line that required less turning of the steering wheel since you could literally feel the car slow down every time he turned the steering wheel at speed.
I do HPDE's with my Z06, but co-drive Miatas in 12-24 hour races.
I started out 40+ years ago with a low powered Datsun 510 that had a good suspension, then got a national quality 510 with power. Later I ran FV's for a couple of years. That taught me even more about momentum and tire scrub. Then I started doing the long endurance races in VW GTI's which brought the front drive equation to momentum.
I got to apply those skills to my Supra TT and subsequently a NASCAR Ford Taurus road race car with 600+ HP. I was conscious of minimizing front tire scrub in the Taurus so the power could be used to get better track-out exit speed.
Those skills can definitely be applied to running the Z06 hard and it's a cheaper way to build your driving skills. With the momentum cars you maximize track out speed by having the best line and maximize your minimum speed. With the higher horsepower cars, you would tend to maximize your track-out speed by using a later apex with straighter exit out of the corner to be able to use the most power at the earliest time.
The best lap time improvements will come from instruction and track time and more track time and you will improve your safety as you get more seat time. Every time you go out on the track plan to focus on improving one or two things, maybe a particular corner or maybe how smoothly you turn the steering wheel, then when that is mastered go on to another thing or two.
He indicated he had old Pilot Sport tires. Those are not PSS that have had the problem with some tires. The Pilot Sport tires are two generations older, with the PS2's in between.
I got my PSS 2 weeks after the 325's became available in Feb. 2012 and have not had any problems with them with 5 pulls over 190 and over 400 miles at 150+.
Saw that AzDave, but the symptoms are eerily familiar to what many folks have reported on the MPSS. Just thought maybe he might be able to get a discounted set of Michelins if the inspection warranted it. That side to side wobble is frightening. I was too scared to stay in the throttle, it felt like the car was going to fly out of control...
My plan was to go with a race prepped Miata for at least a year before buying the Z but...I was obviously impatient.
There is a lot of great info in here. Others feel free to keep asking questions specific to your car and track prep. As for me my plan is a full suspension inspection and correction of any potential issues like alignment, hubs, etc. MPSS tires, Blank rotors, pads, Motul 600, brake ducts, change trans and diff fluids, and I'll start looking into getting the heads done.
I am considering s second set of wheels to race with; still MPSS tires and then these cheap F1 tires I got from a friend for $300 on my stock wheels. Any suggestions on wheel and tire sizes? Do we have any issues lowering the car 3/4" and running slightly wider tires? Just thinking ahead in case I eventually upgrade to coil overs.
Any shop suggestions around the Midwest for the heads? We have Lingenfelter here in Indiana. I'm not exactly sure what all has to be done to fix the issue but I'm sure there are threads on here I can find.
I presume the car is off warranty. I would not consider driving my Z06 without warranty if the heads had not been done. $17K replacement is a big financial risk. It would be the first thing you should do, not "consider".
Understood. Yes I fear it, but I'm saying I don't have an signs right now. I also know most people don't get any warning.
So in your opinion the preventative cost is worth it. What all do you suggest I get done? We have http://www.lingenfelter.com/ here in IN but I'm open to suggestions from any of the Midwest members on here.
I live here in Northern Indiana as well and am having a local shop that has done some machine work for me in the past do my heads here soon, Guy does amazing work and is very reasonably priced! I will update you with my experiences on these heads when he is done if you would like.
Sorry to bring back a relatively dead thread, but I have been searching for recommendations on what to do for brake lines.
I have been much happier with my previous vehicles using SS lines over stock rubber lines.
The main lines for the c6 z06 are the Stoptech and Goodridge G stops from my research, I know there are other suppliers such as VSS, Mallet, etc. and I would rather go with Mallet, but they have yet to answer me about buying their product. At this point I'd rather buy a known supplier in the Stoptechs or the Goodridge lines.
People have commented that Goodridge tests their lines to 12,000psi, but everything that they state says they only test to 3,000 psi. Whereas Stoptech tests their lines to 4,500 psi and they come with a coating to protect the SS braid from abrasion.
Which lines do you all prefer if you have experience with one or both?
(the car is a weekend toy primarily used for track days/hpde and autocross)
10-28-2015, 03:26 PM
I will update you with my experiences on these heads when he is done if you would like.
