[Z06] help me choice valve for c6 z
02-11-2016, 11:45 AM
#21
Le Mans Master
It is satire, yes I support WCCH and would choose them again, but I recognize the merits of AHP as a sound alternative. I just got a writers itch this morning when wcch was described as old school, and ahp as new school, with respect to the person who wrote that, I mean no disrespect. I just don't agree.
Just stirring the pot in good fun. Joshing you.
Just stirring the pot in good fun. Joshing you.
That said, check out the new Triumph Election 2016 special on Hulu if you are in for a good laugh.. The guy is not as sharp as he used to be, but still funny as hell..
And in the spirit of Triumph, "I really like WCCH as well.. FOR ME TO POOP ON!!"
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; 02-11-2016 at 02:58 PM.
02-11-2016, 11:47 AM
#22
Pro
I wouldn't hesitate to use either WCCH or AHP. Both have shown that they do good work. I do like the fact that AHP is a board sponsor, and Kohle spends time on here answering questions and sharing new developments. We've never heard directly from Richard...but I have talked to him on the phone, and he seems like a good guy as well.
I did use PM guides when I had Livernois refurbish my heads, as they felt the same way Kohle does, about bronze guides.
I did use PM guides when I had Livernois refurbish my heads, as they felt the same way Kohle does, about bronze guides.
02-11-2016, 11:55 AM
#23
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Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Harbor City California
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Josh B are you under the impression professional race team heads are cnc ported? If so you are wrong. Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported. Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Last edited by American Heritage; 02-11-2016 at 12:09 PM. Reason: PC
02-11-2016, 12:15 PM
#24
I think Josh was just poking fun. A difference in opinion about what constitutes comic relief is what I see going on here.
By old school, what exactly do we mean here? Richard has been doing heads for 26-27 years, that's just 3 years shy of my age lol.
By old school, what exactly do we mean here? Richard has been doing heads for 26-27 years, that's just 3 years shy of my age lol.
02-11-2016, 12:19 PM
#25
Josh B are you under the impression professional race team heads are cnc ported? If so you are wrong. Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported. Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Got any suggestions?
02-11-2016, 12:30 PM
#26
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Harbor City California
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On to another point - what rockers do you recommend with Bronze guides? I have the bronze guides and I know the stock flat tappet style rockers cause side-loading and I knew beforehand that the recommendation by my builder was to eventually replace those stockers.
Got any suggestions?
Got any suggestions?
1st choice would be Jesel then either T&D or Crower. Each company makes at least two different versions of the rocker (material, ect...).
Last edited by American Heritage; 02-11-2016 at 12:35 PM.
02-11-2016, 12:54 PM
#27
Safety Car
Josh B are you under the impression professional race team heads are cnc ported? If so you are wrong. Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported. Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Sue him for satire? Good luck with that!
02-11-2016, 01:47 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
Josh B are you under the impression professional race team heads are cnc ported? If so you are wrong.
I disagree. Obviously the use of CNC tooling exists for many teams, to the extent it is utilized?....I'd defer to actual polling before I take your word for it.
Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported.
This is a very precise claim, you must be German?
Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Because those Haas Machines are cheap....
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc?
I was utterly unaware of that, but now I know. I thought CNC machines just computed out their maps with zero human input, but I have been enlightened as to the truth now.
Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
No way...are you sure?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
Thank you for proving my point
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development.
So you ARE German! Me too!
Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
You can let Katech speak for Katech. Do you have any legal grounds to presume AHP is a reference to you?
Association for Healthcare Philanthropy
Ashford Hospitality Prime
American Herbal Pharmacopoeia® (AHP) < I Think they beat you to it?
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Small world, because I'm here to support the forum also. If someone asks me a two sentence question, I often give a 500 word answer
I disagree. Obviously the use of CNC tooling exists for many teams, to the extent it is utilized?....I'd defer to actual polling before I take your word for it.
Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported.
This is a very precise claim, you must be German?
Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Because those Haas Machines are cheap....
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc?
I was utterly unaware of that, but now I know. I thought CNC machines just computed out their maps with zero human input, but I have been enlightened as to the truth now.
Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
No way...are you sure?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
Thank you for proving my point
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development.
So you ARE German! Me too!
Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
You can let Katech speak for Katech. Do you have any legal grounds to presume AHP is a reference to you?
Association for Healthcare Philanthropy
Ashford Hospitality Prime
American Herbal Pharmacopoeia® (AHP) < I Think they beat you to it?
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Small world, because I'm here to support the forum also. If someone asks me a two sentence question, I often give a 500 word answer
But it would be a waste of perfectly good Thursday satire, that helps us all limp ourselves to Friday kind of humor, IMO.
Last edited by Josh B.; 02-11-2016 at 01:48 PM.
02-11-2016, 01:56 PM
#29
Race Director
It is satire, yes I support WCCH and would choose them again, but I recognize the merits of AHP as a sound alternative. I just got a writers itch this morning when wcch was described as old school, and ahp as new school, with respect to the person who wrote that, I mean no disrespect. I just don't agree.
Just stirring the pot in good fun. Joshing you.
Just stirring the pot in good fun. Joshing you.
The following users liked this post:
Josh B. (02-11-2016)
02-11-2016, 02:21 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Josh B are you under the impression professional race team heads are cnc ported? If so you are wrong. Almost every single professional (high level professional) race cylinder head is hand ported not cnc ported. Cnc porting is done for production style heads. Its done to help control cost not because it gives you the best product available. CNC machines dont show up late to work or call out sick as a human may do. CNC is done for cost and production reasons.
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
Are you also aware that every CNC head at one point or another was a hand ported head that was then mapped out by the cnc? Are you aware that if you dont rig up the head in the cnc exactly as the mapped head you get a different result (the cnc follows the programs, so if the head was rigged in the machine a little off the cnc work will be a little off)?
For the record (since Josh B's post could be construed as confusing), We AHP have never had any conversations with Katech regarding the LS7 heads.
We are a group of Men (a few of us German Men) and do not find sarcasm funny or helpful to social/forum development. Im sure Katech being the professional company they are would also take offense to your post. Also it is probably not the best legal decision for you to be making up conversations about company's and putting them in quotations.
We are here to help the forum. We have no issue with difference of opinion in fact we support the right to have your own opinion but your earlier post (made up conversation) is non helpful to the forum and insulting to us (as im sure it would be to the people you are attempting to support).
02-11-2016, 02:59 PM
#31
Supporting Vendor
Member Since: Sep 2013
Location: Harbor City California
Posts: 2,817
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Bolding aside, I have no quarrel with you sir, I merely responded in kind. From my narrow experience, it would appear that AHP is dedicated to helping this forum, and I was offering just a little jest. With that said, I humbly apologize for offending you in any sense. If you request me to, I will delete my post.
But it would be a waste of perfectly good Thursday satire, that helps us all limp ourselves to Friday kind of humor, IMO.
But it would be a waste of perfectly good Thursday satire, that helps us all limp ourselves to Friday kind of humor, IMO.
No need to remove any posted material. Sometimes its easy to misunderstand humor via internet forum.
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Josh B. (02-11-2016)
02-11-2016, 03:18 PM
#32
Melting Slicks
There's no need to rag on one shop vs. another. Both do great work just one does things one way and the other shop another way. Results should be the same regardless the only thing that differs is long term how the heads will hold up.
I know I didn't want to do this job again and because WCCH uses only bronze guides I chose AHP to do my heads.
The afkt. really needs to come out with a reasonable cost roller rocker for LS7 heads. Most of us don't want to fork out thousands for a shaft setup so we're stuck using stock rockers (or go YT).
For me whether RR are avail or not I would still go for a PM guide just like factory for durability over a bronze guide and that's a big reason why I went with Kohle on my heads.
Tony
I know I didn't want to do this job again and because WCCH uses only bronze guides I chose AHP to do my heads.
The afkt. really needs to come out with a reasonable cost roller rocker for LS7 heads. Most of us don't want to fork out thousands for a shaft setup so we're stuck using stock rockers (or go YT).
For me whether RR are avail or not I would still go for a PM guide just like factory for durability over a bronze guide and that's a big reason why I went with Kohle on my heads.
Tony
02-11-2016, 03:30 PM
#33
Team Owner
There's no need to rag on one shop vs. another. Both do great work just one does things one way and the other shop another way. Results should be the same regardless the only thing that differs is long term how the heads will hold up.
I know I didn't want to do this job again and because WCCH uses only bronze guides I chose AHP to do my heads.
The afkt. really needs to come out with a reasonable cost roller rocker for LS7 heads. Most of us don't want to fork out thousands for a shaft setup so we're stuck using stock rockers (or go YT).
For me whether RR are avail or not I would still go for a PM guide just like factory for durability over a bronze guide and that's a big reason why I went with Kohle on my heads.
Tony
I know I didn't want to do this job again and because WCCH uses only bronze guides I chose AHP to do my heads.
The afkt. really needs to come out with a reasonable cost roller rocker for LS7 heads. Most of us don't want to fork out thousands for a shaft setup so we're stuck using stock rockers (or go YT).
For me whether RR are avail or not I would still go for a PM guide just like factory for durability over a bronze guide and that's a big reason why I went with Kohle on my heads.
Tony
Both do outstanding work...its really what you (the consumer) is comfortable with in choosing. Some people like Coke, some people like Pepsi. Some like Blonds, others like Brunettes. You get the gist...
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REDZED2 (02-13-2016)
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REDZED2 (02-13-2016)
02-11-2016, 03:51 PM
#35
Bolding aside, I have no quarrel with you sir, I merely responded in kind. From my narrow experience, it would appear that AHP is dedicated to helping this forum, and I was offering just a little jest. With that said, I humbly apologize for offending you in any sense. If you request me to, I will delete my post.
But it would be a waste of perfectly good Thursday satire, that helps us all limp ourselves to Friday kind of humor, IMO.
But it would be a waste of perfectly good Thursday satire, that helps us all limp ourselves to Friday kind of humor, IMO.
The following users liked this post:
Josh B. (02-11-2016)
02-11-2016, 03:51 PM
#36
color*
kidding of course....
The only reason I went with wcch was because I wanted to do heads and cam as a single transaction and be as simple as possible. The shop I had do the installation has a relationship with them, so it made it simple for me to get it all done. If AHP was offered, I would have been perfectly fine using their heads as well. Both have given us options and support that GM doesn't.
kidding of course....The only reason I went with wcch was because I wanted to do heads and cam as a single transaction and be as simple as possible. The shop I had do the installation has a relationship with them, so it made it simple for me to get it all done. If AHP was offered, I would have been perfectly fine using their heads as well. Both have given us options and support that GM doesn't.
02-11-2016, 07:14 PM
#39
Drifting
I spent months and months reading posts and weighing my options. In the end I went with Katech and have not regretted my decision. I have titanium/molybdenum intake and exhaust valves.
They are top notch, kept me informed on my build and answered my numerous questions through out the process.
They are top notch, kept me informed on my build and answered my numerous questions through out the process.
Last edited by rpm94; 02-12-2016 at 06:52 PM.
