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C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Just got my first corvette a week or so ago. Its a 2008 z06, black 3LZ with 11k miles. Bought from BillyBadd here on this site. Love the car so far, and heres a quick rundown of whats already done:
WCCH Stage 2 Heads with Dual Springs
Comp Cams Trunion "upgrade"
CMC GT-20 Cam
Pfadt Longtubes and X-pipe
Callaway Honker Intake
Stock TB and Intake Manifold
Car is insane, but I would like to run e85 since it is readily available. So I plan to piece together an e85 fuel system consisting of flex fuel sensor, walbro 465 pump, ID850 or 1000 injectors and of course a tune. Also plan to do an MSD intake manifold. What else is needed to make low-mid 600s? Do I need a different cam? Can i port the stock throttle body or is a 102mm necessary? Any other suggestions?
Also I have read some pretty bad things about the comp cams trunion kit, anything I should do about that? Obligatory (dirty) pic of the car the day it came off the trailer:
650 to the wheels N/A is a TALL ORDER on a stock block. Going to have to go to a pretty wild cam and do a lot of other stuff which ALL will hurt driveability. 650 with a blower is easy and driveability will still be ok, but blowers on ls7 are not so kind to the factory bottom end.
E85 isnt the magic that you might think unless you are specifically going to build a motor to take advantage of it i.e. really raise the compression or put forced induction on it.
I have a dyno sheet for 558 right now. I think that is a mustang dyno though, can't remember. Maybe mid 600s is being a little cheeky, but i have seen at least a few build threads with common H/C packages making low-mid 600s on e85, so I know it is possible. Car is not a DD or anything like that but I do still want to be able to cruise in it.
I also know e85 works better with FI or increased compression, but I know it cant hurt in these applications either. Especially with the ease of a flex fuel sensor, I can run anything from 93 to e85 and anything in between. Seems to me to be a no brainer since it is available in my area.
Intake manifold and 102mm throttle body will net you 20-30. That setup thats on there is probably close to running out of injector.
Beyond that, IMO things get silly with big cams, completely different aftermarket heads(the WCCH stage 2 heads are already ported pretty decently so not much more to be had there), and other tricks. Then you still have the factor of the stock block and its thin cylinder liners and pistons that dont take to kindly to detonation.
There is another thread where a guy went all out, solid roller cam, etc... and made 607, which I think is low, should be 650, but something is up with that car.
So is it possible, yea, are you ready to deal with the driveability and maintenance aspect of doing a big cam? Or a solid roller cam? Or building the bottom end(you can only go so much lift on a big cam before you get into piston to valve contact).
And E85, go for it if you want, but its expensive to do right and I dont think will net you the gains you think it might.
Intake manifold and 102mm throttle body will net you 20-30. That setup thats on there is probably close to running out of injector.
Beyond that, IMO things get silly with big cams, completely different aftermarket heads(the WCCH stage 2 heads are already ported pretty decently so not much more to be had there), and other tricks. Then you still have the factor of the stock block and its thin cylinder liners and pistons that dont take to kindly to detonation.
There is another thread where a guy went all out, solid roller cam, etc... and made 607, which I think is low, should be 650, but something is up with that car.
So is it possible, yea, are you ready to deal with the driveability and maintenance aspect of doing a big cam? Or a solid roller cam? Or building the bottom end(you can only go so much lift on a big cam before you get into piston to valve contact).
And E85, go for it if you want, but its expensive to do right and I dont think will net you the gains you think it might.
Good points thanks. Where are you getting the expensive e85 system though? Some guys run it with just the flex fuel sensor and completely stock fuel system. I would do the sensor, fuel pump and injectors. Under $1500.
My 08 is a DD, went the supercharger route.
A&A blower with intercooler, DeWitts radiator, High capacity fan, American Racing headers, AlkyControl injection. Limited to 6psi boost.
630 rwhp.
My 08 is a DD, went the supercharger route.
A&A blower with intercooler, DeWitts radiator, High capacity fan, American Racing headers, AlkyControl injection. Limited to 6psi boost.
630 rwhp.
Looking to stay NA this season for now. Sounds like a stout combo though!
Good points thanks. Where are you getting the expensive e85 system though? Some guys run it with just the flex fuel sensor and completely stock fuel system. I would do the sensor, fuel pump and injectors. Under $1500.
ever priced the labor on dropping the tank to put a pump in? There is a reason people run Boost-A-Pump's a lot(of which I am NOT a fan).
I would do it once and do it right if dropping the tank and paying all that labor. I would put a Fore dual pump setup in. Thats $1320.
Then the Dedicated Motorsports flexfuel sensor setup is $400.
Then your ID1000 injectors for another $950.
Thats almost 2700 bucks NOT counting the labor to drop the tanks which I have heard is upwards of $1000 as the tank/s are a beast to drop. Oh and BTW while you are in there, might as well replace the sending units because if you dont, they will break shortly after you put the tanks back in. That last part would be my luck.
Again, if you are building a motor that can REALLY take advantage of E85(high compression or blower) and its readily available to you, I think its a great fuel source. IF the car isnt built to take advantage of E85, I dont really believe there is much power there.
Ill just use my car as an example, running 93 octane. During tuning timing was added and the car made 2 extra hp, the timing was backed out for a safer tune with basically unchanged HP. There was more injector left so we werent risking running lean. It just reached its limit due to my build. SO running E85 with its realistic 98 octane(dont believe this 110 octane BS), where do I go tuning wise to pickup power? The car has already told us its basically got nothing left by not making more power with more timing and we werent running it out of fuel. NOW I am not a tuner, so MAYBE there are some more tuning tricks to get more power out of my setup with E85, but the advantage of E85(cooler EGT's and higher octane), on my setup, I dont think would be realized.
Just my 2c as I hate to see people jump feat first into something because its the "latest and greatest" only to be disappointed in the end because the outcome did not get close to their expectations.
How about a different approach. Seeing how you just got the car and you haven't even had your honeymoon yet, I'd suggest you sleep with the gal for a few weeks, get to know her quirks, then after the hangover is over....cause you will have one, reevaluate your situation.
BTR stage 4 cam
BTR Spring kit
Heads sent to LME for port job and mill
Ported stock throttle body. If you go with a ported 102 prob more ponies as well
Ported MSD intake manifold
Haltech killer bee CAI
Kooks 1 7/8 headers and catted xpipe. If you use catless xpipe you will get a few more ponies
Tuned on 93 pump gas
Made 610.7 whp and 534 tq
Last edited by JFG Racing #1; 04-21-2016 at 05:41 PM.
BTR stage 4 cam
BTR Spring kit
Heads sent to LME for port job and mill
Ported stock throttle body. If you go with a ported 102 prob more ponies as well
Ported MSD intake manifold
Haltech killer bee CAI
Kooks 1 7/8 headers and catted xpipe. If you use catless xpipe you will get a few more ponies
Tuned on 93 pump gas
Made 610.7 whp and 534 tq
Awesome setup. Besides the 102 vs. ported stock throttle body(maybe worth 5-10hp), thats about as "all out" as it gets, especially the cam...and you "only" made 610whp. I say "only" like its nothing, its a sick number. Just trying to point to the OP to say your setup is "all out" in my opinion and didnt hit his magic 650whp number. I bet the car is a riot to drive!
The car is a different beast now, not that it wasn't already. Lol. The drivability with that cam isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I'm very pleased on the way it drives. It just keeps pulling and pulling some more
For more power like someone mentioned is to build the bottom end. I'm not to familiar with E85 since we don't have it here in NJ readily available. Unless you buy 55 gallon drums from out of state. :-(
Originally Posted by rjacobs
Awesome setup. Besides the 102 vs. ported stock throttle body(maybe worth 5-10hp), thats about as "all out" as it gets, especially the cam...and you "only" made 610whp. I say "only" like its nothing, its a sick number. Just trying to point to the OP to say your setup is "all out" in my opinion and didnt hit his magic 650whp number. I bet the car is a riot to drive!
What kind of dyno?
Are those numbers SAE-corrected, Std.-corrected or uncorrected?
At what rpm are the torque and power peaks?
On the OPs intent...if that's 650 at the wheels SAE-corrected, that works out to about 765 at the flywheel. That's going to be a really steep mountain to climb with a normally aspirated LS7, whether you use gasoline or E85.
My suggestion is that you use either dilitium crystals, liquid unobtanium or dark matter because they are likely the only things on which you're going to able to fuel a 765-hp NA LS7 which can be both street driven and be reliable/durable.
Now...if you are willing to put a blower on the motor, then, given a cam change, 765 is doable as long as you have really good charge air cooling and then, pray your cylinder liners don't bulge like Kim Kardashian's big ***.
Last edited by Hib Halverson; 04-21-2016 at 07:32 PM.
What kind of dyno?
Are those numbers SAE-corrected, Std.-corrected or uncorrected?
At what rpm are the torque and power peaks?
On the OPs intent...if that's 650 at the wheels SAE-corrected, that works out to about 765 at the flywheel. That's going to be a really steep mountain to climb with a normally aspirated LS7, whether you use gasoline or E85.
My suggestion is that you use either dilitium crystals, liquid unobtanium or dark matter because they are likely the only things on which you're going to able to fuel a 765-hp NA LS7 which can be both street driven and be reliable/durable.
Now...if you are willing to put a blower on the motor, then, given a cam change, 765 is doable as long as you have really good charge air cooling and then, pray your cylinder liners don't bulge like Kim Kardashian's big ***.
What kind of dyno?
Are those numbers SAE-corrected, Std.-corrected or uncorrected?
At what rpm are the torque and power peaks?
On the OPs intent...if that's 650 at the wheels SAE-corrected, that works out to about 765 at the flywheel. That's going to be a really steep mountain to climb with a normally aspirated LS7, whether you use gasoline or E85.
My suggestion is that you use either dilitium crystals, liquid unobtanium or dark matter because they are likely the only things on which you're going to able to fuel a 765-hp NA LS7 which can be both street driven and be reliable/durable.
Now...if you are willing to put a blower on the motor, then, given a cam change, 765 is doable as long as you have really good charge air cooling and then, pray your cylinder liners don't bulge like Kim Kardashian's big ***.
The car is a different beast now, not that it wasn't already. Lol. The drivability with that cam isn't as bad as I thought it was going to be. I'm very pleased on the way it drives. It just keeps pulling and pulling some more
For more power like someone mentioned is to build the bottom end. I'm not to familiar with E85 since we don't have it here in NJ readily available. Unless you buy 55 gallon drums from out of state. :-(
Tell us more about the driveability. When does it start to surge/buck in higher gears? Difficult to get it moving from a stop?
Just like any cam. Needs a little throttle to get it moving. When I first drove I thought I was going to stall it a few times until I got use to it. Not in this case at all. Havent stalled it yet. My sweet spot for not surging/bucking is 1600 to 1800 rpm In any gear besides 6th. So anything under that you can tell it needs more foot on gas. Lol
Originally Posted by MTBSully
Tell us more about the driveability. When does it start to surge/buck in higher gears? Difficult to get it moving from a stop?
Not familiar with a Dynapack, but I see the numbers are SAE-corrected and they are impressive. You are at, say...715-720 at the flywheel.
Is there really that much drive train loss on this car, Hib? I'm just asking, cause I don't know. I was figuring roughly 10%, but that's only based on a few 'stock' baseline dyno sheets I've paid attention to.
To anyone, is the dynopack the portable dyno that bolts to the hubs? And don't they tend to report a bit higher than a drum dyno? No tire loss??
04-21-2016, 11:27 AM
New Z06: Help me get to 650hp!
