[Z06] School me on octane boosters.....
05-03-2016, 05:48 PM
#21
Safety Car
Thread Starter
If you read the MSDS's you probably wouldn't touch Toluene or Xylene.
Great info in the other thread linked to above. I gotta get better with the search function. I did search, for what it's worth.
Regarding meth injection, my hesitation is simply added complexity and just one more thing to deal with. I am a staunch KISS principle advocate. And don't the meth kits steel the washer fluid tank? I need that. Lots of bugs where I live.
The booster in a can is appealing to me. Pretty simple to just add a can for each tank.
Great info in the other thread linked to above. I gotta get better with the search function. I did search, for what it's worth.
Regarding meth injection, my hesitation is simply added complexity and just one more thing to deal with. I am a staunch KISS principle advocate. And don't the meth kits steel the washer fluid tank? I need that. Lots of bugs where I live.
The booster in a can is appealing to me. Pretty simple to just add a can for each tank.
05-03-2016, 08:05 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
I bought a case of Amsoil Octane boost on a whim. Anyone familiar? Will it kill my liver faster than my drinking will? 
Haven't used yet but was going to throw a bottle in the tank for track days.
Haven't used yet but was going to throw a bottle in the tank for track days.
05-03-2016, 08:22 PM
#24
Melting Slicks
the additives are snake oil to me. fortunately i have 100 race gas at one station nearby. mixed with 91 i can take care of my needs. 4 gallons 100 in a fill up gets you 93 octane. charts are available online to blend according to your octane requirement.
if had need for more detonation control, like with blower , i would be doing water/meth injection.
if had need for more detonation control, like with blower , i would be doing water/meth injection.
05-03-2016, 09:13 PM
#25
Team Owner
Only some additives are snake oil, others work great.
Avgas will kill o2 and cats. It is leaded.
Avgas will kill o2 and cats. It is leaded.
05-03-2016, 09:30 PM
#26
Msds on mtt isn't very good either! Heck it is not good just for gasoline lol.
One thing I noted about torco.. Once you mix it don't let it sit for long periods.
My vote is water meth and no you don't have to use the washer tank. You could put a tank in the storage bin...or anywhere else. A 50/50 blend it is not flammable...surprised?
And it is not the meth that deters knock.... It's the water.
One thing I noted about torco.. Once you mix it don't let it sit for long periods.
My vote is water meth and no you don't have to use the washer tank. You could put a tank in the storage bin...or anywhere else. A 50/50 blend it is not flammable...surprised?
And it is not the meth that deters knock.... It's the water.
05-03-2016, 10:06 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
There in no danger running MMT in a small bottle of octane boost in a na engine.. hell I have been running the NOS brand in both c5 c6 z's... mild orange powder deposit may be found on plugs and valves.. zero harm to o2s or cats... yeah when i pulled my 243 heads in 2012.guess what zero orange on them or my plugs... torco rep I talked to said their accelerator (mmt)isnt any better than the best on the shelf stuff... they all give you roughly ( mmt with nitro methane) a real life 2 full points on about 10 gallons or 40 litres of fuel... this doesnt need to be complex... all I know is when i flll my z with 1/2 tank withoiut my NOS boost I cant induce mild wheel hop.. with it (booster) i can... i can tell all day.. ut bey thats just .my experience.. i don't use it all the time.. helps in hot weather. One guys expereince. Now some guys dump 2-3 bottles on a half tank..start a new story.
Oh and any octane booster without mmt is snake oil and does nothing..I have seen a lab data sheet and KR from a Canadian company testing several boosters. Yes the new Richard Petty STP in the fancy gold box has mmt so does RP... its that or run torco 108 unleaded mixed with ur best pump.
Oh and any octane booster without mmt is snake oil and does nothing..I have seen a lab data sheet and KR from a Canadian company testing several boosters. Yes the new Richard Petty STP in the fancy gold box has mmt so does RP... its that or run torco 108 unleaded mixed with ur best pump.
Last edited by REDZED2; 05-04-2016 at 03:27 AM.
05-04-2016, 03:25 AM
#28
Melting Slicks
05-04-2016, 03:37 AM
#29
Melting Slicks
Yes iread the MSD on mmt ,toluene etc.. the amount of mmt in a small bottle of octane boost is a joke.. I read the Governmemnt of Canada MSDS... Read it all... there is virtually zero health or safety issues... think of all the young kids like me who grew up sniffing leaded gas for years.. mmt is kool aid compared...
Just wouldnt run more than 1 bottle per half a tank.. yes I can tell the difference.. why I run it off and on for half the year the Z is on the road.
Just wouldnt run more than 1 bottle per half a tank.. yes I can tell the difference.. why I run it off and on for half the year the Z is on the road.
Last edited by REDZED2; 05-04-2016 at 03:40 AM.
05-04-2016, 08:58 AM
#30
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I found the link I mentioned..
http://bndautomotive.com/aces-formul...oline-formula/
Someone try this stuff out, let us know if it works!
http://bndautomotive.com/aces-formul...oline-formula/
Someone try this stuff out, let us know if it works!
You've done a lot more research on this that I. What do you think about this guy's comments?
Some info on MMT:
FYI:
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT) is an organometallic compound with the formula (CH3C5H4)Mn(CO)3. Marketed initially in 1958 as a supplement to the gasoline additive, tetraethyl lead to increase the fuel's octane rating, MMT was later used in unleaded gasoline. Although banned as a gasoline additive in the United States from 1977 to 1995, MMT has been used in Canadian gasoline since 1976 and was recently introduced in Australia. It is sold under the tradenames HiTec 3000 and AK-33X.
Tetraethyl lead (TEL) has been, and still is, used as an additive to increase the octane rating of gasoline. TEL was manufactured and marketed by the Ethyl Corporation, a joint venture between General Motors and DuPont. When the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered the phase out of leaded gasoline in 1972, new fuel additives were sought. Initially marketed in 1958 as a smoke suppressant for gas turbines, MMT was used in 1974 as an additive in unleaded gasoline.
In 1977, use of MMT was banned in the US by the Clean Air Act until the Ethyl Corporation could prove that the additive would not lead to failure of new car emissions-control systems. As a result of this ruling, the Ethyl Corporation began a legal battle with the EPA, presenting evidence that MMT was harmless to automobile emissions-control systems. In 1995, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that the EPA had exceeded its authority and, as a result, MMT became a legal fuel additive in the US. MMT is nowadays manufactured by the Afton Chemical Corporation division of Newmarket Corporation.
A bit more...
There has been a lot of myth and unfair treatment of MMT in the past two decades. Some of the posts above clearly demonstrated this fact. But in reality, MMT is still widely used today in Canadian, European, Asian and Latin American commercial pump gas. Btw, the same company supplies Shell with "V-Power gas detergent" and factory filled motor oil, tranny oil, gear oil for all new GM vehicles. This is no small garage operation.
We don't see MMT in U.S. gas stations for two reasons: 1) Congress mandates the use of heavily subsidized ETHANOL 2) MMT was subject to rigorous health and environmental reviews (in U.S. and Canada) as the most tested fuel additive in history, however gas distributors avoided it because of its controversial history even though MMT was exonerated of all charges.
It is after all A LEGAL PRODUCT so you can buy it over-the-counter as a NOS brand octane booster. MMT based o.b. will increase octane number by 3-4 points just as it has done to overseas pump gas. This is a fact!
As to whether it will damage your O2 sensors, catalytic converters, OBD-II, that is another myth. IN 1994, the EPA concluded that a concentration of 0.083 grams of Mn/liter of gas "will not cause or contribute to the failure of any emission control device or systems." In 1998 and 2000, the Canadian government said, "current scientific information failed to demonstrate that MMT impairs the proper functioning of automotive on board diagnostics system. Furthermore, there is no new scientific evidence to modify the conclusion drawn by Health Canada that MMT poses no health risk."
If MMT o.b. works out for you, financially, as an alterantive to race-fuel, feel free and dump it in your tank. It will leave an orangeish tint on your spark plugs, but that's nothing to worry about.
FYI:
Methylcyclopentadienyl manganese tricarbonyl (MMT) is an organometallic compound with the formula (CH3C5H4)Mn(CO)3. Marketed initially in 1958 as a supplement to the gasoline additive, tetraethyl lead to increase the fuel's octane rating, MMT was later used in unleaded gasoline. Although banned as a gasoline additive in the United States from 1977 to 1995, MMT has been used in Canadian gasoline since 1976 and was recently introduced in Australia. It is sold under the tradenames HiTec 3000 and AK-33X.
Tetraethyl lead (TEL) has been, and still is, used as an additive to increase the octane rating of gasoline. TEL was manufactured and marketed by the Ethyl Corporation, a joint venture between General Motors and DuPont. When the US Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) ordered the phase out of leaded gasoline in 1972, new fuel additives were sought. Initially marketed in 1958 as a smoke suppressant for gas turbines, MMT was used in 1974 as an additive in unleaded gasoline.
In 1977, use of MMT was banned in the US by the Clean Air Act until the Ethyl Corporation could prove that the additive would not lead to failure of new car emissions-control systems. As a result of this ruling, the Ethyl Corporation began a legal battle with the EPA, presenting evidence that MMT was harmless to automobile emissions-control systems. In 1995, the U.S. Court of Appeals ruled that the EPA had exceeded its authority and, as a result, MMT became a legal fuel additive in the US. MMT is nowadays manufactured by the Afton Chemical Corporation division of Newmarket Corporation.
A bit more...
There has been a lot of myth and unfair treatment of MMT in the past two decades. Some of the posts above clearly demonstrated this fact. But in reality, MMT is still widely used today in Canadian, European, Asian and Latin American commercial pump gas. Btw, the same company supplies Shell with "V-Power gas detergent" and factory filled motor oil, tranny oil, gear oil for all new GM vehicles. This is no small garage operation.
We don't see MMT in U.S. gas stations for two reasons: 1) Congress mandates the use of heavily subsidized ETHANOL 2) MMT was subject to rigorous health and environmental reviews (in U.S. and Canada) as the most tested fuel additive in history, however gas distributors avoided it because of its controversial history even though MMT was exonerated of all charges.
It is after all A LEGAL PRODUCT so you can buy it over-the-counter as a NOS brand octane booster. MMT based o.b. will increase octane number by 3-4 points just as it has done to overseas pump gas. This is a fact!
As to whether it will damage your O2 sensors, catalytic converters, OBD-II, that is another myth. IN 1994, the EPA concluded that a concentration of 0.083 grams of Mn/liter of gas "will not cause or contribute to the failure of any emission control device or systems." In 1998 and 2000, the Canadian government said, "current scientific information failed to demonstrate that MMT impairs the proper functioning of automotive on board diagnostics system. Furthermore, there is no new scientific evidence to modify the conclusion drawn by Health Canada that MMT poses no health risk."
If MMT o.b. works out for you, financially, as an alterantive to race-fuel, feel free and dump it in your tank. It will leave an orangeish tint on your spark plugs, but that's nothing to worry about.
05-04-2016, 09:03 AM
#31
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Msds on mtt isn't very good either! Heck it is not good just for gasoline lol.
One thing I noted about torco.. Once you mix it don't let it sit for long periods.
My vote is water meth and no you don't have to use the washer tank. You could put a tank in the storage bin...or anywhere else. A 50/50 blend it is not flammable...surprised?
And it is not the meth that deters knock.... It's the water.
One thing I noted about torco.. Once you mix it don't let it sit for long periods.
My vote is water meth and no you don't have to use the washer tank. You could put a tank in the storage bin...or anywhere else. A 50/50 blend it is not flammable...surprised?
And it is not the meth that deters knock.... It's the water.
Like I said earlier, it's just more complication. One more stinking thing to break or malfunction, and when it comes to fuel, air or spark.....I like to keep things simple. I friggin hate nitrous because of this..... I build guys engines for spray, big power builds, but I'll never own one. With Meth injection, there are things to fail, and finding the spot for the tank is a problem.
05-05-2016, 10:34 AM
#32
lots of room in the engine compartment and I ran a snow dual nozzle set up both street and track for about 3 years. No problems--just clean the nozzles every 6 months or so.
besides you would not be running the w/m because you are tuning on the edge, increasing boost etc. You will be running it for safety purposes. With the fail safe stuff they have now once it is set up you can almost forget it.
I like Water meth because it doesn't have to be activated unless you need/want it. It cleans , it cools and it protects.
Running additives --the additives are being used all the time. Plus we have a dual tank car. I am not sure how well the fuel additive would mix just by dumping it in?
The best way would be to add the stuff to the gas BEFORE the gas goes in the car---royal pain.
That hatch area is nice MD! Didn't realize you were into sound
besides you would not be running the w/m because you are tuning on the edge, increasing boost etc. You will be running it for safety purposes. With the fail safe stuff they have now once it is set up you can almost forget it.
I like Water meth because it doesn't have to be activated unless you need/want it. It cleans , it cools and it protects.
Running additives --the additives are being used all the time. Plus we have a dual tank car. I am not sure how well the fuel additive would mix just by dumping it in?
The best way would be to add the stuff to the gas BEFORE the gas goes in the car---royal pain.
That hatch area is nice MD! Didn't realize you were into sound
Last edited by olddragger; 05-05-2016 at 10:37 AM.
05-05-2016, 12:09 PM
#33
Safety Car
Thread Starter
OK.... You have me reconsidering meth.....damn you. 
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
05-05-2016, 12:57 PM
#34
lol--well at least up there you will not have any problem finding windshield wiper fluid rated to -20 F....lAdmire people that install stereo stuff. It gets involved.
Just the other day I was looking for a place to put an 8 track player---I still have one....yes I do
Don't think you will be disappointed with the water meth. Another toy to play with.
05-05-2016, 02:40 PM
#35
Racer
OK.... You have me reconsidering meth.....damn you.
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
05-05-2016, 02:50 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
I've run VP race fuel at many track days and had no gain and even had my performance drop off a little. This was when the car was stock with no tune.
After being modded I tuned for race fuel and it made a difference. Expensive stuff though.
After being modded I tuned for race fuel and it made a difference. Expensive stuff though.
05-05-2016, 04:52 PM
#37
Intermediate
OK.... You have me reconsidering meth.....damn you.
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
I am a complete and total A/V geek. I just finished sound proofing and swapping out the Blows system. Long, dark winters and isolation in Alaska means you either have hobbies, or go bonkers.
I am going to experiment with the booster products. See how much spark I can throw at the girl.
05-06-2016, 06:41 PM
#38
If you read the MSDS's you probably wouldn't touch Toluene or Xylene.
Great info in the other thread linked to above. I gotta get better with the search function. I did search, for what it's worth.
Regarding meth injection, my hesitation is simply added complexity and just one more thing to deal with. I am a staunch KISS principle advocate. And don't the meth kits steel the washer fluid tank? I need that. Lots of bugs where I live.
The booster in a can is appealing to me. Pretty simple to just add a can for each tank.
Great info in the other thread linked to above. I gotta get better with the search function. I did search, for what it's worth.
Regarding meth injection, my hesitation is simply added complexity and just one more thing to deal with. I am a staunch KISS principle advocate. And don't the meth kits steel the washer fluid tank? I need that. Lots of bugs where I live.
The booster in a can is appealing to me. Pretty simple to just add a can for each tank.
It's the tank you want, pump fits under the tank, comes with a light on the dash to tell you when it's low and it holds almost 2 gallons. Only costs about $4 to fill.
I've been running this set up since 2009 and over 85,000 miles on a 580rwhp motor. I could run more timing advance above 5600rpm, carry the torque curve, thus providing a higher HP number but I don't feel the need.
Once a month or so I top off the tank, takes about a pint. One track day will use the whole tank.
05-06-2016, 07:04 PM
#39
Safety Car
Thread Starter
-20° windshield washer fluid (part A) is 30% meth and 70% water. Can't see why you don't steal the washer tank, add a yellow bottle HEET (part B) and wash the windshield too (50/50 mix).
It's the tank you want, pump fits under the tank, comes with a light on the dash to tell you when it's low and it holds almost 2 gallons. Only costs about $4 to fill.
I've been running this set up since 2009 and over 85,000 miles on a 580rwhp motor. I could run more timing advance above 5600rpm, carry the torque curve, thus providing a higher HP number but I don't feel the need.
Once a month or so I top off the tank, takes about a pint. One track day will use the whole tank.
It's the tank you want, pump fits under the tank, comes with a light on the dash to tell you when it's low and it holds almost 2 gallons. Only costs about $4 to fill.
I've been running this set up since 2009 and over 85,000 miles on a 580rwhp motor. I could run more timing advance above 5600rpm, carry the torque curve, thus providing a higher HP number but I don't feel the need.
Once a month or so I top off the tank, takes about a pint. One track day will use the whole tank.
05-06-2016, 09:02 PM
#40
Team Owner
Depends on how much you spray, and how often it is active. You could go 200 miles or 2000 miles. It only sprays at WOT (or whatever you set), so if you are just putting around, it uses zero meth. I fill mine maybe every 3 months, and even then it is just topping off.
With a 50/50 mix, you could clean you windshield just fine, since that is basically what washer fluid is with added dye.
With a 50/50 mix, you could clean you windshield just fine, since that is basically what washer fluid is with added dye.