[Z06] Issue and frustrated with MSD Intake.
06-30-2016, 08:14 PM
#21
Le Mans Master
One would think MSD tests their design on a few vettes... reads like they haven't.
Many comments about low quality in this product.
Too bad.
Good luck wished to the OP.
Many comments about low quality in this product.
Too bad.
Good luck wished to the OP.
06-30-2016, 08:15 PM
#22
Racer
It happened to be on the rear of the 3 bolts. I used an in/lb torque wrench. I just got it as tight as I could before it would pop and called it good since the other 2 torqued fine.
07-01-2016, 01:06 PM
#23
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
MSD told me that they have run into this issue before and they are sending me some new bolts.
It looks like my bolts are too long and they are hitting the plastic and being pushed back through the threads.
Seems strange that they wouldn't be shipping these units with the correct bolts. Frustrating.
It looks like my bolts are too long and they are hitting the plastic and being pushed back through the threads.
Seems strange that they wouldn't be shipping these units with the correct bolts. Frustrating.
Last edited by lamboworld; 07-01-2016 at 01:06 PM.
07-01-2016, 01:14 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
MSD told me that they have run into this issue before and they are sending me some new bolts.
It looks like my bolts are too long and they are hitting the plastic and being pushed back through the threads.
Seems strange that they wouldn't be shipping these units with the correct bolts. Frustrating.
It looks like my bolts are too long and they are hitting the plastic and being pushed back through the threads.
Seems strange that they wouldn't be shipping these units with the correct bolts. Frustrating.
Unless you are saying "it's loose because it bottomed out, not because it pulled the insert out or stripped between the insert and the plastic".
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; 07-01-2016 at 01:15 PM.
07-01-2016, 01:17 PM
#25
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Damn! - well, I guess that would explain it - more QC issues. So, once the brass insert is "popped out" of the molded plastic, that's a "done deal", right? How will replacing the bolts fix THIS manifold?
Unless you are saying "it's loose because it bottomed out, not because it pulled the insert out or stripped between the insert and the plastic".
Unless you are saying "it's loose because it bottomed out, not because it pulled the insert out or stripped between the insert and the plastic".
The brass insert did not pop out. I believe that the bolt bottomed out and I don't think that the threads on the bolt are cut correctly because that should not allow the bolts to come out of the threads. I think that they are sending me shorter bolts with threads that are cut differently. Who knows.
07-01-2016, 01:22 PM
#26
Le Mans Master
The brass insert did not pop out. I believe that the bolt bottomed out and I don't think that the threads on the bolt are cut correctly because that should not allow the bolts to come out of the threads. I think that they are sending me shorter bolts with threads that are cut differently. Who knows.
Last edited by Dan_the_C5_Man; 07-01-2016 at 01:28 PM.
07-02-2016, 03:54 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
I just got my Mamo MSD and the top bolts torque to spec but must be too long. I can spin the washer with my fingers after the bolt has been torqued. MSD definitely has some QC issues.
07-02-2016, 05:28 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
07-02-2016, 05:44 PM
#29
Melting Slicks
07-02-2016, 05:54 PM
#30
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I bought some shorter bolts. M6 X 16mm and they worked perfect. I was able to tighten them to 75 in/lbs with no issues. The bolts that are included are too long and they bottom out. They are also a tad smaller than a M6 bolt and that is why the will pop out of the threads.
I also noticed that they don't include enough washers. There should be 24 and they include 22. 14 to bolt the top to the bottom and 10 to bolt the intake to the heads. Their instructions are written wrong and indicate that 4 washers are preinstalled and 18 washers are in the bag.
They need to do a better job with their QC.
07-02-2016, 06:13 PM
#31
Le Mans Master
I bought some shorter bolts. M6 X 16mm and they worked perfect. I was able to tighten them to 75 in/lbs with no issues. The bolts that are included are too long and they bottom out. They are also a tad smaller than a M6 bolt and that is why the will pop out of the threads.
I also noticed that they don't include enough washers. There should be 24 and they include 22. 14 to bolt the top to the bottom and 10 to bolt the intake to the heads. Their instructions are written wrong and indicate that 4 washers are preinstalled and 18 washers are in the bag.
They need to do a better job with their QC.
I also noticed that they don't include enough washers. There should be 24 and they include 22. 14 to bolt the top to the bottom and 10 to bolt the intake to the heads. Their instructions are written wrong and indicate that 4 washers are preinstalled and 18 washers are in the bag.
They need to do a better job with their QC.
07-02-2016, 10:51 PM
#33
Team Owner
Part throttle no, just don't go WOT or beat on it.
07-03-2016, 04:29 AM
#34
Guys,
Thought I would chime in here quickly....
I have seen a lot of intakes pass though my hands in the last six months or so and I have stated before that the fit and finish and QC on some are a little suspect. I do rectify the bulk of these issues with the porting work and having the opportunity to disassemble and reassemble the manifold (so the bulk of any potential issues are handled before the manifold ever gets to my customer). In fact I think I mentioned this in a previous thread, but I have pulled a few out of the box that had an injector hole(s) completely blocked off (I have the right size hole punch that removes that casting flash perfectly). I've received one top that had one of the center top bolt threads stripped on arrival (MSD quickly exchanged that for me) and it seems those three center bolts snug the top cover down in varying degrees. IMO that's due to the stacking of tolerances concerning the base and the height of the top and the molds in general which are never perfectly consistent (I think that there are some differences present when they are removed from the mold). When I'm removing the logos I experience some tops that have "sunken" lower than others and require more bodywork to flatten the top before I texture coat and top coat them.
While all of this is certainly frustrating, I have to admit that as a rule of thumb I'm just accustomed to aftermarket parts not fitting very well and for the most part I find I end up modifying practically everything I purchase because I'm very particular about the smaller details.....some parts clearly need more help than others. My quick fix to you guys dealing with bolts that are a little long is a cut off wheel and a belt sander to dress the end of the fastener after you shorten it. Its a lot faster to simply cut down the thread length of the bolts supplied then heading to the local hardware store or waiting for shorter bolts in the mail....cutting the bolts takes 3 mins and your back in business.
Now before you guys start flaming, I'm not justifying or saying it's OK the fact that MSD's new plastic wonder has some teething issues with quality control....but I am confident they will sort out the small issues that are now likely presenting themselves due to all the volume of parts being made....having a background in manufacturing has shown me some stuff doesn't rear its ugly head till you produce a larger quantity of the product. And having been hot rodding and modding cars for 35 years has my mind programmed to finding solutions and fabricating ones if need be. To be honest, most products in this industry that call themselves bolt on's are anything but.....in the case of the MSD I think the issues here are mostly minor and somewhat manageable from the standpoint of the end user but clearly it would be ideal if all of you could remove this intake from the box and have zero issues....trust me I get that....and I'm sure that's MSD's goal long term, striving to make that happen. These guys have been in business a long time and are well funded....I'm confident they are going to sort out and address what needs to be improved upon (they have already with the upgrade seals etc.).
The real bottom line, properly prepped and modified these intakes provide huge gains in performance and are certainly worth a bit of hassle in terms of their installation and fitment (as unwelcome as that might be). Its quite expensive and usually alot more difficult to see 35-40 RWHP than bolting on a ported intake manifold in half an afternoon. If that means I have to cut a bolt down or deal with a few small nuances to get this baby installed I wouldn't hesitate. I'm sure MSD will get most of this sorted out in the very near future....but none of it is beyond the scope of those reading should they encounter an issue and I can say that the bulk of the folks I have helped have had smooth installs with phenomenal results and if were a Z06 owner looking for more I wouldn't hesitate a minute to take the plunge.....the rewards easily outweigh the cost and the ease of installation even if your one of the few that have to trim a bolt or two.
-Tony
Thought I would chime in here quickly....
I have seen a lot of intakes pass though my hands in the last six months or so and I have stated before that the fit and finish and QC on some are a little suspect. I do rectify the bulk of these issues with the porting work and having the opportunity to disassemble and reassemble the manifold (so the bulk of any potential issues are handled before the manifold ever gets to my customer). In fact I think I mentioned this in a previous thread, but I have pulled a few out of the box that had an injector hole(s) completely blocked off (I have the right size hole punch that removes that casting flash perfectly). I've received one top that had one of the center top bolt threads stripped on arrival (MSD quickly exchanged that for me) and it seems those three center bolts snug the top cover down in varying degrees. IMO that's due to the stacking of tolerances concerning the base and the height of the top and the molds in general which are never perfectly consistent (I think that there are some differences present when they are removed from the mold). When I'm removing the logos I experience some tops that have "sunken" lower than others and require more bodywork to flatten the top before I texture coat and top coat them.
While all of this is certainly frustrating, I have to admit that as a rule of thumb I'm just accustomed to aftermarket parts not fitting very well and for the most part I find I end up modifying practically everything I purchase because I'm very particular about the smaller details.....some parts clearly need more help than others. My quick fix to you guys dealing with bolts that are a little long is a cut off wheel and a belt sander to dress the end of the fastener after you shorten it. Its a lot faster to simply cut down the thread length of the bolts supplied then heading to the local hardware store or waiting for shorter bolts in the mail....cutting the bolts takes 3 mins and your back in business.
Now before you guys start flaming, I'm not justifying or saying it's OK the fact that MSD's new plastic wonder has some teething issues with quality control....but I am confident they will sort out the small issues that are now likely presenting themselves due to all the volume of parts being made....having a background in manufacturing has shown me some stuff doesn't rear its ugly head till you produce a larger quantity of the product. And having been hot rodding and modding cars for 35 years has my mind programmed to finding solutions and fabricating ones if need be. To be honest, most products in this industry that call themselves bolt on's are anything but.....in the case of the MSD I think the issues here are mostly minor and somewhat manageable from the standpoint of the end user but clearly it would be ideal if all of you could remove this intake from the box and have zero issues....trust me I get that....and I'm sure that's MSD's goal long term, striving to make that happen. These guys have been in business a long time and are well funded....I'm confident they are going to sort out and address what needs to be improved upon (they have already with the upgrade seals etc.).
The real bottom line, properly prepped and modified these intakes provide huge gains in performance and are certainly worth a bit of hassle in terms of their installation and fitment (as unwelcome as that might be). Its quite expensive and usually alot more difficult to see 35-40 RWHP than bolting on a ported intake manifold in half an afternoon. If that means I have to cut a bolt down or deal with a few small nuances to get this baby installed I wouldn't hesitate. I'm sure MSD will get most of this sorted out in the very near future....but none of it is beyond the scope of those reading should they encounter an issue and I can say that the bulk of the folks I have helped have had smooth installs with phenomenal results and if were a Z06 owner looking for more I wouldn't hesitate a minute to take the plunge.....the rewards easily outweigh the cost and the ease of installation even if your one of the few that have to trim a bolt or two.
-Tony
Last edited by Tony @ Mamo Motorsports; 07-03-2016 at 04:31 AM.
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SteveDoten@ARH (08-09-2016)
07-03-2016, 10:38 AM
#35
Le Mans Master
You make a good point Tony, I remember back in 2005 and 2006 when you had to cut the cowel on the C6's to fit the FAST intake manifolds. FAST fix the issue with the 102 manifolds, so I'm sure MSD will come around.
Last edited by Brandon619; 07-03-2016 at 10:39 AM.
07-03-2016, 12:04 PM
#36
Pro Mechanic
Pro Mechanic
I have a MSD intake on my LS7. I did not experience near the installation problems as did the OP. The two issues I had were 1) modifying the PCV lines and 2) making sure the hose connecting the manifold to the valley cover did not have so tight a bend in it that the hose collapsed. I had no problems with any of the fasteners.
I did an article for another Corvette web site about the installation. CF rules prohibit me from giving out the URL or putting a link in this post but if you know about other Corvette forum sites, it's the one which has the product evaluations available to members.
As for calibration, the manifold requires aftermarket tuning to work well. Not only do you need to change the engine's fueling at WOT but working on part throttle helps, too. Lastly, EFILive is the best software to use because it supports the manfiold volume parameter which HPTuners does not. You must be able to change that parameter because the MSDs intake volume is so much larger than stock.
In my chassis dyno testing at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma CA, on a stock LS7 with proper calibration, the manifold was responsible for a 22.3-hp increase in power and 28-lb/ft increase in torque.
I did an article for another Corvette web site about the installation. CF rules prohibit me from giving out the URL or putting a link in this post but if you know about other Corvette forum sites, it's the one which has the product evaluations available to members.
As for calibration, the manifold requires aftermarket tuning to work well. Not only do you need to change the engine's fueling at WOT but working on part throttle helps, too. Lastly, EFILive is the best software to use because it supports the manfiold volume parameter which HPTuners does not. You must be able to change that parameter because the MSDs intake volume is so much larger than stock.
In my chassis dyno testing at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma CA, on a stock LS7 with proper calibration, the manifold was responsible for a 22.3-hp increase in power and 28-lb/ft increase in torque.
07-03-2016, 12:14 PM
#37
Drifting
I have a MSD intake on my LS7. I did not experience near the installation problems as did the OP. The two issues I had were 1) modifying the PCV lines and 2) making sure the hose connecting the manifold to the valley cover did not have so tight a bend in it that the hose collapsed. I had no problems with any of the fasteners.
I did an article for another Corvette web site about the installation. CF rules prohibit me from giving out the URL or putting a link in this post but if you know about other Corvette forum sites, it's the one which has the product evaluations available to members.
As for calibration, the manifold requires aftermarket tuning to work well. Not only do you need to change the engine's fueling at WOT but working on part throttle helps, too. Lastly, EFILive is the best software to use because it supports the manfiold volume parameter which HPTuners does not. You must be able to change that parameter because the MSDs intake volume is so much larger than stock.
In my chassis dyno testing at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma CA, on a stock LS7 with proper calibration, the manifold was responsible for a 22.3-hp increase in power and 28-lb/ft increase in torque.
I did an article for another Corvette web site about the installation. CF rules prohibit me from giving out the URL or putting a link in this post but if you know about other Corvette forum sites, it's the one which has the product evaluations available to members.
As for calibration, the manifold requires aftermarket tuning to work well. Not only do you need to change the engine's fueling at WOT but working on part throttle helps, too. Lastly, EFILive is the best software to use because it supports the manfiold volume parameter which HPTuners does not. You must be able to change that parameter because the MSDs intake volume is so much larger than stock.
In my chassis dyno testing at Westech Performance Group in Mira Loma CA, on a stock LS7 with proper calibration, the manifold was responsible for a 22.3-hp increase in power and 28-lb/ft increase in torque.
Hp tuner support it since a long time now.
Seb
07-03-2016, 01:00 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
Ironically, I've been logging the last few days, discovered the MSD has brought things in line nicely - it is countering the rich LTFT's the headers and Callaway created - less work for me!
07-03-2016, 01:08 PM
#39
Intake volume is not automatically added to each op system, globally. You have to bug HPT support to get it added.
But having said that, after I got it added, and after I changed the volume parameter, I couldn't detect any changes good/bad/different from doing so.
But having said that, after I got it added, and after I changed the volume parameter, I couldn't detect any changes good/bad/different from doing so.
07-03-2016, 01:32 PM
#40
Drifting
Yeah, Hib knows this, not sure what's up with that comment about the manifold volume, unless it's other tables he is referring to.
Ironically, I've been logging the last few days, discovered the MSD has brought things in line nicely - it is countering the rich LTFT's the headers and Callaway created - less work for me!
Ironically, I've been logging the last few days, discovered the MSD has brought things in line nicely - it is countering the rich LTFT's the headers and Callaway created - less work for me!