[Z06] Less mild and more wild HCI build! (An American Heritage Performance tale)
07-07-2016, 05:46 PM
#21
Team Owner
800-2000 is where I noticed the most difference with a 102 TB.
The following users liked this post:
MikeOC (07-07-2016)
07-07-2016, 06:15 PM
#22
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
Not a fan of pfadt headers but since you got them used I guess that is OK. That is what I was going to say. Looking back though I would add a nw102. Tuning issues was when they first came out and used a c5 motor. Any nw102 made in last 3-4 years are nothing more than 1-2 minor tune tweaks. If your tuner can't handle them then they shouldn't be touching your car. You would probably see a solid 10hp/10tq from a nw102 and the three cars I've done with them all drove better and had better throttle response and less cam issues.
Dynapak can read high or low depending on setup. For example your chart shows 3.43 gear which is wrong and will skew numbers.
Dynapak can read high or low depending on setup. For example your chart shows 3.43 gear which is wrong and will skew numbers.
I'll take the NW102 under advisement. If I was trying to squeeze out every HP I could or if I go down that road in the future I will consider it. I wasn't aware the tuning issues wee more a thing of the past.
As for the numbers on the chart. I don't know that they are an accurate reflection of the parameters used to measure the car. Kohle can shed some light on that when he is able to. I know if you look at my original run when stock years ago (the 2nd sheet) that the A/F values are screwed up and not an accurate reflection of what the A/F actually was on the run.
07-07-2016, 06:20 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
Excellent built, and excellent results...but no surprise there, Kohle and his team at AHP are top notch. 
Most importantly, thank you for including a bore mic comparison to the wiggle results; which further bolsters what most have learned over time. Is the wiggle test precise? No; but if its performed correctly, it certainly can give a very good indication that something isn't right.
Most importantly, thank you for including a bore mic comparison to the wiggle results; which further bolsters what most have learned over time. Is the wiggle test precise? No; but if its performed correctly, it certainly can give a very good indication that something isn't right.
It's interesting in that while I have been reading about this for years I never worried to much about it until my brother's 06 Z06 lost a lifter about 4 years ago and when they went into to fix it found his valves and guides were all shot. At that point it was to close to home so I decided when my warranty ran out I would do something about it. The shop that took care of his car was Cunningham Motorsports in California.
07-07-2016, 07:02 PM
#24
Race Director
What did you do about the intake valves that appear to have been run in out of spec guides, at least in some cases? When I did my build, I did not want to reuse any valves that had been in worn guides as it is possible the heads of either intakes or exhausts may have been fatigued. Ultimately I made the decision before the build began to replace all the valves. When the mic log of guides came back all but two intakes were out of spec at 46K miles and the two that were in spec were in the .0030 range.
07-07-2016, 07:24 PM
#25
Team Owner
Yeah I knew if I posted anything here about heads and valves/ valve guides without some actual numbers everyone would jump all over that so I made sure Kohle gave me the data before I posted.
It's interesting in that while I have been reading about this for years I never worried to much about it until my brother's 06 Z06 lost a lifter about 4 years ago and when they went into to fix it found his valves and guides were all shot. At that point it was to close to home so I decided when my warranty ran out I would do something about it. The shop that took care of his car was Cunningham Motorsports in California.
It's interesting in that while I have been reading about this for years I never worried to much about it until my brother's 06 Z06 lost a lifter about 4 years ago and when they went into to fix it found his valves and guides were all shot. At that point it was to close to home so I decided when my warranty ran out I would do something about it. The shop that took care of his car was Cunningham Motorsports in California.
CMS and AHP are the only two places I have ever taken my vettes to for work. Now that I'm in Hawaii...I guess I'm done tinkering with cars, or at least vettes anyways.
07-07-2016, 09:16 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
So if the OE poster dynoed on a dynojet what would his SAE #'s be then?
Not knocking the OE poster's #'s but I'm just having a hard time understanding how his combo with a torquer 116 cam (in most people's books a mild but decent cam) is making 600+hp SAE on a dynapack dyno. Some guys with serious NA builds and using more radical cams don't hit #'s like that SAE on a dynojet.
Not knocking the OE poster's #'s but I'm just having a hard time understanding how his combo with a torquer 116 cam (in most people's books a mild but decent cam) is making 600+hp SAE on a dynapack dyno. Some guys with serious NA builds and using more radical cams don't hit #'s like that SAE on a dynojet.
Last edited by Cman01; 07-07-2016 at 09:16 PM.
07-07-2016, 09:52 PM
#28
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
What did you do about the intake valves that appear to have been run in out of spec guides, at least in some cases? When I did my build, I did not want to reuse any valves that had been in worn guides as it is possible the heads of either intakes or exhausts may have been fatigued. Ultimately I made the decision before the build began to replace all the valves. When the mic log of guides came back all but two intakes were out of spec at 46K miles and the two that were in spec were in the .0030 range.
07-07-2016, 10:00 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
So if the OE poster dynoed on a dynojet what would his SAE #'s be then?
Not knocking the OE poster's #'s but I'm just having a hard time understanding how his combo with a torquer 116 cam (in most people's books a mild but decent cam) is making 600+hp SAE on a dynapack dyno. Some guys with serious NA builds and using more radical cams don't hit #'s like that SAE on a dynojet.
Not knocking the OE poster's #'s but I'm just having a hard time understanding how his combo with a torquer 116 cam (in most people's books a mild but decent cam) is making 600+hp SAE on a dynapack dyno. Some guys with serious NA builds and using more radical cams don't hit #'s like that SAE on a dynojet.
I mentioned earlier that the real value imo when it comes to chassis dynos is to measure gains or losses based on modifications to the drivetrain. While it can be used to calculate crank HP and I am as guilty as many for getting caught up in the whole numbers game all of the numbers are subject to a certain level of scrutiny.
07-07-2016, 10:17 PM
#32
Team Owner
It isn't a torquer cam. It is a custom spec'd cam similar, so comparing them shouldn't be done.
07-07-2016, 10:32 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
Yeah I know it isn't exactly a torquer 116 cam his lift is different but duration and lobe center are the same #'s so maybe only the lobe profile is different to make it a custom grind cam for his build.
Correction: torquer 116 has 220 intake duration custom cam is 224
Correction: torquer 116 has 220 intake duration custom cam is 224
Last edited by Cman01; 07-07-2016 at 10:35 PM.
07-07-2016, 11:18 PM
#34
Team Owner
I think this is just a combination of just a bunch of little things.
Torquer setups typically do ~550ish from what I've seen. Add a mamo ported MSD for ~15-20rwhp, mill heads .020 for another 15-20rwhp, custom cam for another ~10rwhp. All those little things may only be worth 10-15rwhp, but together you get a combo making 40-50rwhp more than just another build.
Torquer setups typically do ~550ish from what I've seen. Add a mamo ported MSD for ~15-20rwhp, mill heads .020 for another 15-20rwhp, custom cam for another ~10rwhp. All those little things may only be worth 10-15rwhp, but together you get a combo making 40-50rwhp more than just another build.
07-08-2016, 08:46 AM
#35
Finally, someone who did it right. Been trying to preach the importance of cam selection with Pfadt headers to dominate the power under the curve. You can't throw a big race cam in with that type of header - it just doesn't scavenge the exhaust properly with too much overlap. I'm really impressed with the TQ #'s. This is the kind of power every build should be making..
The Mamofied MSD just adds icing on the cake and it probably ensured you another 20rwhp over just about anything else.
The Mamofied MSD just adds icing on the cake and it probably ensured you another 20rwhp over just about anything else.
Last edited by fueledpassion; 07-08-2016 at 08:49 AM.
07-08-2016, 09:02 AM
#36
EPS cams consistently make good power. Donopacks consistently read higher, a lot higher, than drum dynos. No resistance from the drum. Duh...
I installed a NW 102 for one reason....to experiment with low rpm drivability tuning, to see if I could tame down some off idle reversion induced issues. Didn't help one stinking bit. I didn't think it would, prior to buying it, but based on "internet forum experts", saying it would....figured what the hell. What's another 500 bucks. Plus, it's pretty. Moral of story, take internet expert speak with a grain of salt and be prepared for disappointment. And of course I could be just as full of crap as everyone else.
I installed a NW 102 for one reason....to experiment with low rpm drivability tuning, to see if I could tame down some off idle reversion induced issues. Didn't help one stinking bit. I didn't think it would, prior to buying it, but based on "internet forum experts", saying it would....figured what the hell. What's another 500 bucks. Plus, it's pretty. Moral of story, take internet expert speak with a grain of salt and be prepared for disappointment. And of course I could be just as full of crap as everyone else.
The following users liked this post:
MikeOC (07-08-2016)
07-08-2016, 09:09 AM
#37
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
Finally, someone who did it right. Been trying to preach the importance of cam selection with Pfadt headers to dominate the power under the curve. You can't throw a big race cam in with that type of header - it just doesn't scavenge the exhaust properly with too much overlap. I'm really impressed with the TQ #'s. This is the kind of power every build should be making..
The Mamofied MSD just adds icing on the cake and it probably ensured you another 20rwhp over just about anything else.
The Mamofied MSD just adds icing on the cake and it probably ensured you another 20rwhp over just about anything else.
07-08-2016, 09:12 AM
#38
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Mill Creek Washington
Posts: 2,501
Likes: 0
Received 38 Likes
on
30 Posts
As I type this I'm actually sitting at my gate catching my flight down to LA. I'm probably about 5 hours away from arriving at AHP to pick my car up for the 1400 mile drive home. I'll have about 8+ hours seat time in it by this evening when I make my first stop in Monterey. I'll be able to update this thread with my initial driving impressions this evening.
07-08-2016, 09:28 AM
#40
Team Owner
EPS cams consistently make good power. Donopacks consistently read higher, a lot higher, than drum dynos. No resistance from the drum. Duh...
I installed a NW 102 for one reason....to experiment with low rpm drivability tuning, to see if I could tame down some off idle reversion induced issues. Didn't help one stinking bit. I didn't think it would, prior to buying it, but based on "internet forum experts", saying it would....figured what the hell. What's another 500 bucks. Plus, it's pretty. Moral of story, take internet expert speak with a grain of salt and be prepared for disappointment. And of course I could be just as full of crap as everyone else.
I installed a NW 102 for one reason....to experiment with low rpm drivability tuning, to see if I could tame down some off idle reversion induced issues. Didn't help one stinking bit. I didn't think it would, prior to buying it, but based on "internet forum experts", saying it would....figured what the hell. What's another 500 bucks. Plus, it's pretty. Moral of story, take internet expert speak with a grain of salt and be prepared for disappointment. And of course I could be just as full of crap as everyone else.
As for dynapaks reading higher, it all depends on the operator. They do have an excellent load system, but if the operator isn't using it, then yes, they numbers are sky high compared to a dyno jet. If they turn the load way up, numbers can be lower. If they put in the wrong gear ratios, and setup, also throws the numbers off.
Last edited by Unreal; 07-08-2016 at 09:30 AM.