[Z06] C6Z takes down C7Z
07-25-2016, 12:07 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jan 2013
Location: what ain't no country I ever heard of
Posts: 2,220
Received 324 Likes
on
247 Posts
I have a crammed C6Z, and although there are several C7Z's in the club, I haven't had the chance to tie up with one. I get the impression that they think, they can't be beat. I'm lookin forward to the meeting. I just hope my wife is not in the car..... because she's going to get the ride of her life, while screaming slow down...slow down!
07-25-2016, 05:04 PM
#43
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Oct 1999
Location: Charlotte, NC (formerly Endicott, NY)
Posts: 40,078
Received 8,919 Likes
on
5,328 Posts
I owned a stock C6Z and traded for a stock C7Z with the Z07 package. On the track the two have similar top speeds coming off the same corners at the same speed. The Z07 has a lot of aero drag and carries two hundred pounds more weight so all in all the two are equal when it comes to accelerating off Oak Tree corner from 47 or 48 mph in third gear. The C7 also has a disadvantage in this area because it is limited by its engine rpm. The C6Z can get 500 more rpm out of the engine. By the time you get to the end of the back straight both cars can be going 154 to 158, however, the C6Z can do that with one gear change and the C7 needs two gear changes. Each gear change costs you time. The big advantages of the C7Z with the Z07 are its better handling and braking despite the 200 lbs extra weight. It can get through corners better due to the aero and the electronic diff which is amazing. When you get right down to it with the same driver driving both cars the C7Z will be the quicker car around the track. If you only look at one aspect of the performance envelope (acceleration) your are missing the most important parts of a car comparison. I have been passed by stock C6Zs since I got the C7 but it isn't because the car is better it is because the drivers are better. Sometimes you have to have bigger Cajones rather than a heavy foot. Straight line racing rarely tests your Cajone size.
Bill
Bill
07-25-2016, 05:11 PM
#44
Team Owner
I owned a stock C6Z and traded for a stock C7Z with the Z07 package. On the track the two have similar top speeds coming off the same corners at the same speed. The Z07 has a lot of aero drag and carries two hundred pounds more weight so all in all the two are equal when it comes to accelerating off Oak Tree corner from 47 or 48 mph in third gear. The C7 also has a disadvantage in this area because it is limited by its engine rpm. The C6Z can get 500 more rpm out of the engine. By the time you get to the end of the back straight both cars can be going 154 to 158, however, the C6Z can do that with one gear change and the C7 needs two gear changes. Each gear change costs you time. The big advantages of the C7Z with the Z07 are its better handling and braking despite the 200 lbs extra weight. It can get through corners better due to the aero and the electronic diff which is amazing. When you get right down to it with the same driver driving both cars the C7Z will be the quicker car around the track. If you only look at one aspect of the performance envelope (acceleration) your are missing the most important parts of a car comparison. I have been passed by stock C6Zs since I got the C7 but it isn't because the car is better it is because the drivers are better. Sometimes you have to have bigger Cajones rather than a heavy foot. Straight line racing rarely tests your Cajone size.
Bill
Bill
Have you actually been racing C6 Z06's with your C7 Z06's are just doing HPDE's. IF just doing HPDE's, can't you only pass on the straights with a wave by?
Last edited by JoesC5; 07-25-2016 at 05:15 PM.
07-25-2016, 05:27 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
Are you comparing the braking of a C7 Z06 with the Z07 CCB's to a base C6 Z06 with iron brakes or a C6 Z06 with the Z07 CCB's?
Have you actually been racing C6 Z06's with your C7 Z06's are just doing HPDE's. IF just doing HPDE's, can't you only pass on the straights with a wave by?
Have you actually been racing C6 Z06's with your C7 Z06's are just doing HPDE's. IF just doing HPDE's, can't you only pass on the straights with a wave by?
07-25-2016, 07:31 PM
#47
Definitely heavy. I take C6Z06 any day as well or C6 ZR1. C6 Z06 + head and cam is lethal. I have one, and it takes out lambos, ferraries, and most other exotics within 500K price range. Not bad.
07-25-2016, 08:28 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
I owned a stock C6Z and traded for a stock C7Z with the Z07 package. On the track the two have similar top speeds coming off the same corners at the same speed. The Z07 has a lot of aero drag and carries two hundred pounds more weight so all in all the two are equal when it comes to accelerating off Oak Tree corner from 47 or 48 mph in third gear. The C7 also has a disadvantage in this area because it is limited by its engine rpm. The C6Z can get 500 more rpm out of the engine. By the time you get to the end of the back straight both cars can be going 154 to 158, however, the C6Z can do that with one gear change and the C7 needs two gear changes. Each gear change costs you time. The big advantages of the C7Z with the Z07 are its better handling and braking despite the 200 lbs extra weight. It can get through corners better due to the aero and the electronic diff which is amazing. When you get right down to it with the same driver driving both cars the C7Z will be the quicker car around the track. If you only look at one aspect of the performance envelope (acceleration) your are missing the most important parts of a car comparison. I have been passed by stock C6Zs since I got the C7 but it isn't because the car is better it is because the drivers are better. Sometimes you have to have bigger Cajones rather than a heavy foot. Straight line racing rarely tests your Cajone size.
Bill
Bill
07-25-2016, 09:56 PM
#49
Drifting
I think the c7z is around 3510
07-25-2016, 10:01 PM
#50
Drifting
Are you comparing the braking of a C7 Z06 with the Z07 CCB's to a base C6 Z06 with iron brakes or a C6 Z06 with the Z07 CCB's?
Have you actually been racing C6 Z06's with your C7 Z06's are just doing HPDE's. IF just doing HPDE's, can't you only pass on the straights with a wave by?
Have you actually been racing C6 Z06's with your C7 Z06's are just doing HPDE's. IF just doing HPDE's, can't you only pass on the straights with a wave by?
07-25-2016, 10:45 PM
#51
Le Mans Master
Bill can answer also but we both run at VIR and I do HPDE's which are normally broken up into 5 groups, Beginner and Novice both have instructors and you can only pass one car with that car giving a wave bye. In the intermediate group at some point you loose your instructor and can normally pass anywhere on the track with a point by. The advanced groups in my opinion are just like racing. You pass anywhere without point byes. Bill is extremely good and probably does more than HPDE's. Just my 2 cents.
07-26-2016, 11:35 AM
#52
Depends on many things. On a road course circuit (such as VIR) with street driven cars--too many variables to pick a definite winner. Cars are too close. w/p ratio are only like a 0.6 difference. Then the heat soak factor comes to play and yes I said it. ANY stock form supercharged engine on a road course circuit or street will have heat soak. yes there are modifications that one can do to help with that---but that is not a point in this discussion.
Both are great cars, but for performance I will take a lightweight drivers car over a heavier, electronically enhanced car any day.
There will never be another lightweight powerful car like the c6 zo6 built again.
Both are great cars, but for performance I will take a lightweight drivers car over a heavier, electronically enhanced car any day.
There will never be another lightweight powerful car like the c6 zo6 built again.
07-26-2016, 05:04 PM
#53
Basically means we get to keep our "king of the road" title a few more years while the C7Z's remain stock, lol.
07-26-2016, 05:07 PM
#54
I also would say that the C6Z could be faster in a straight line (and in many cases is) and could be a better track car because it is far more consistent (which it is) but would still be a fallible, erroneous statement to say it is a better car than the C7Z. So much more to a car than it's track capabilities. Sure, the C6Z was built for tracking and so it does...but nowadays, manufacturers are trying their best to meet the demand of "have your cake and eat it too". Consumers are demanding track cars that are 110% suitable for the street also. The C7Z delivers this by a wide margin better than the C6Z.
I'm trying to imagine how much of the extra performance of the C7Z can actually be used by the average driver on the street OR track. By average, I mean not really that good at racing just competent with a stick. I think that captures most of us. You know, we're the guys that run the car a full .3-.5 seconds slower than what it can do with the best driver on a strip. Capable, but not really exceptional.
My theory is that people like "us" ^^^ are not going to be any faster through the twisties or at the track with either or car, unless we're talking about the A8 configuration - I can see that one being a bit of a game-changer for the average driver but not a pro.
Then again, it's possible that I just don't know what I'm talking about.
Nonetheless, I have sympathy for the C7Z owners that bought the car mainly because they were convinced it was the fastest car on the street. It's fast. It's definitely nicer than the C6Z, but the price cannot justify it if the potential owner is after the fastest street version of Corvettes. it's a full double to quadruple the price point of the C6Z, and offers only a little more useable performance on the street.
I'm trying to imagine how much of the extra performance of the C7Z can actually be used by the average driver on the street OR track. By average, I mean not really that good at racing just competent with a stick. I think that captures most of us. You know, we're the guys that run the car a full .3-.5 seconds slower than what it can do with the best driver on a strip. Capable, but not really exceptional.
My theory is that people like "us" ^^^ are not going to be any faster through the twisties or at the track with either or car, unless we're talking about the A8 configuration - I can see that one being a bit of a game-changer for the average driver but not a pro.
Then again, it's possible that I just don't know what I'm talking about.
Nonetheless, I have sympathy for the C7Z owners that bought the car mainly because they were convinced it was the fastest car on the street. It's fast. It's definitely nicer than the C6Z, but the price cannot justify it if the potential owner is after the fastest street version of Corvettes. it's a full double to quadruple the price point of the C6Z, and offers only a little more useable performance on the street.
Last edited by fueledpassion; 07-26-2016 at 05:17 PM.
07-27-2016, 04:27 PM
#56
That's right.
Something else though - I always look at a car's potential and what it is going to be if/when I own it, not what it is in current state.
Since owning a C7Z would mean that I don't touch it for warranty reasons, I could argue that the best bargain and overall best performing Corvette is the C6Z or C6 ZR1. I've always looked at all of the cars this way. Cobra Terminators - not particularly fast in stock form but has a bottom end that can handle 900-1000rwhp in 100% stock form.
Similarly, I always looked at the GTR in the same vein. In stock form, this car really isn't too much to write home about until you start putting a few grand into it then it becomes a top dog car for ALL types of racing.
Something else though - I always look at a car's potential and what it is going to be if/when I own it, not what it is in current state.
Since owning a C7Z would mean that I don't touch it for warranty reasons, I could argue that the best bargain and overall best performing Corvette is the C6Z or C6 ZR1. I've always looked at all of the cars this way. Cobra Terminators - not particularly fast in stock form but has a bottom end that can handle 900-1000rwhp in 100% stock form.
Similarly, I always looked at the GTR in the same vein. In stock form, this car really isn't too much to write home about until you start putting a few grand into it then it becomes a top dog car for ALL types of racing.
07-27-2016, 10:48 PM
#58
Le Mans Master
07-27-2016, 10:59 PM
#59
Intermediate
Originally Posted by sam90lx
It's called C6 envy.
Last edited by Nicodemo; 07-27-2016 at 10:59 PM.