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C6 Corvette ZR1 & Z06General info about GM’s Corvette Supercar, LS9 Corvette Technical Info, Performance Upgrades, Suspension Setup for Street or Track
Well winter has arrived here in new england and I just put the vette to bed last night for her long winters nap. Winter also means BUILD TIME! Right now I am running:
Stock 14k mile longblock
WCCH Stage 2 heads
GT20 Cam
Pfadt LTs and OR X
Corsa
Callaway honker intake
Stock intake and TB
Car makes 558rwhp and runs great. Has a little surge below 1700rpms or so and is tricky to drive sometimes at low speec but I dont mind it. Looking to make more power this winter and a plan to mill the heads, run E85 with a flex fuel kit, MSD intake tony mamo ported, possibly NW102 TB (not sure if the $600+ is worth the 5-7HP).
Question is, should I swap the cam? I know the GT20 is somewhat aggressive (238/254 .635/.624 113LSA) but I am not sure if there is more power to be had from a more max effort cam such as BTR stage IV, black widow etc. Any suggestions? Maybe a custom grind?
i would imagine you could gain a few points. but with bringing in a larger cam and milling the heads your gonna run into PTV clearance issues. (if you havent considered that)
maybe a 100 shot would be more effective solid horsepower, granted filling bottles kind of sucks but think of the time youd save, and the 100 HP you would gain LOL
i would imagine you could gain a few points. but with bringing in a larger cam and milling the heads your gonna run into PTV clearance issues. (if you havent considered that)
maybe a 100 shot would be more effective solid horsepower, granted filling bottles kind of sucks but think of the time youd save, and the 100 HP you would gain LOL
I have considered PTV issues, but I also see people running max effort cams and milling the heads .030" or so with no issues. Obviously I would be checking PTV clearance regardless.
Not really interested in spray. Never have been and dont know much about it.
milled 030 heads by AHP
660/660 236/256 @ 111 cam
superpro long tubes
102/102
lg cai
made 583/550
maybe e85, mill heads to the max and port match your intake and have a custom cam speced out. may sacrifice some drivability down low/street driing but should scream
Your power seems a bit low to me. What type of dyno was used?
Too many people get talked into way too much cam on this forum. Most are over cammed for the peak rpm they are limited to. What is more important, is the total combination of the build, to raise VE. With a 7200 peak rpm, for example, this engine doesn't really benefit from more than "roughly" 245 deg/.050" duration. And that asumes the exh valve is open long enough and all the valve open/close points are optimized. At 245 int duration, and all the above is correct, 625 rwhp is achievable.
You should also be very honest with yourself with respect to just how much lower rpm drivability sacrifices you are willing to tolerate.
with K501 cam (a little more than yours), MSD, NW102 and Pfadt 1 7/8 LT's I found out the Pfadt LT headers do not generate as mych torque asseveral other headers. I think my build will do what I want, but if I were to replace them now I'd probably go to ARH 1 7/8's and get probably 20 lb-ft more torque in the 4500-5500 range. My power peak was 7100 RPM (7300 FSO) with the Pfadts, about 4-500 rpm higher than similar builds with ARH. After my build, even Katech indicated the Pfadts typically generate less mid-range torque than other headers. My MSD was just mildly cleaned up, not really ported.
The Pfadts seem to work best on stock or mild cammed LS7's.
Your power seems a bit low to me. What type of dyno was used?
Too many people get talked into way too much cam on this forum. Most are over cammed for the peak rpm they are limited to. What is more important, is the total combination of the build, to raise VE. With a 7200 peak rpm, for example, this engine doesn't really benefit from more than "roughly" 245 deg/.050" duration. And that asumes the exh valve is open long enough and all the valve open/close points are optimized. At 245 int duration, and all the above is correct, 625 rwhp is achievable.
You should also be very honest with yourself with respect to just how much lower rpm drivability sacrifices you are willing to tolerate.
Dynojet. Previous owner dynoed 558 in dallas texas, I dynoed 553 in NH after a 2 hour cruise. Note, this was through stock mufflers. I added the corsa later this summer. The tune is a tad on the rich side. Conservative. I didnt want to mess with it this summer since I knew I wanted to make some changes this winter and knew it would be bulletproof to beat on on the highway. I just wanted the tune checked under my ownership. Im sure the drivability could be improved but again, didnt want to have to pay for tuning twice.
Wow you are second person I have the same cam on a 112 lsa car made 558 488 changed plugs to tr6xi and put a heat shield cover on air raid intake, car has ported stock intake and tb and picked up 12hp 5tq. If you get a better intake car will be close to 585 to wheels maybe 575. Look at my new build now unfortunately my cam went flat...That cam pulls hard after 4000 to be honest that cam is good top end cam it drives like stock down low...its a 21century cam....your compression is at 11.5 11.8 with their package. Text me your number....
I'm also using 1/3/4 headers...... Your dyno a/f looks rich should be around 12.2 wot....if you data log your car Matt usually has car at 23 24 degrees at wot I'm curious to see where your at...
Last edited by RamAir972003; 12-08-2016 at 10:23 PM.
Mill the heads(are the WCCH stage 2 P&P? or just fixed valves?), put the MSD on, do the NW102, injectors(you will need them regardless, my guess is your IDC is pretty high as is, especially running that rich), and get re-tuned and you should be up over 600 whp with that cam. I personally wouldnt spend money on a cam since you already have one, but I would spend the money on a NW102.
I would think long and hard about E85 personally(and I have). I dont personally feel(and I have ready access to 93 octane) that its worth it unless you can build the motor to a much higher SCR than is possible with simply milling the factory heads. I was told I would probably only pick up 10-15whp going with E85 over my same setup with 93. For the $$$$ involved in dropping the tank to do the E85 pump, lines, sensors, etc... thats required for the flex fuel, wasnt worth it to me. NOW if I ever build a motor that can take advantage of E85(either high compression N/A or FI of some type) I will be much more interested in spending the money.
I picked up 22 rwhp switching to e85 on my last setup. not sure on cr but I'm guessing your typical. 030 mill. I bought the car with the heads milled and could not get a response from previous owner how much they they were milled. I had numerous people say don't do e85 it's not worth it on a NA rngine. Well for a 22 rwhp gain I would say it was worth it.
If you're looking for max effort give Tony Mamo a call you won't be disappointed. I just made the most rwhp on my tuners dyno that's on a NA LS platform and he has tuned hundreds of ls cars. so that tells me something.
Mill the heads(are the WCCH stage 2 P&P? or just fixed valves?), put the MSD on, do the NW102, injectors(you will need them regardless, my guess is your IDC is pretty high as is, especially running that rich), and get re-tuned and you should be up over 600 whp with that cam. I personally wouldnt spend money on a cam since you already have one, but I would spend the money on a NW102.
I would think long and hard about E85 personally(and I have). I dont personally feel(and I have ready access to 93 octane) that its worth it unless you can build the motor to a much higher SCR than is possible with simply milling the factory heads. I was told I would probably only pick up 10-15whp going with E85 over my same setup with 93. For the $$$$ involved in dropping the tank to do the E85 pump, lines, sensors, etc... thats required for the flex fuel, wasnt worth it to me. NOW if I ever build a motor that can take advantage of E85(either high compression N/A or FI of some type) I will be much more interested in spending the money.
Originally Posted by Pelan
I picked up 22 rwhp switching to e85 on my last setup. not sure on cr but I'm guessing your typical. 030 mill. I bought the car with the heads milled and could not get a response from previous owner how much they they were milled. I had numerous people say don't do e85 it's not worth it on a NA rngine. Well for a 22 rwhp gain I would say it was worth it.
If you're looking for max effort give Tony Mamo a call you won't be disappointed. I just made the most rwhp on my tuners dyno that's on a NA LS platform and he has tuned hundreds of ls cars. so that tells me something.
I'm with you. I see people say all the time "E85 isn't worth it", but car after car cranks out 20-30rwhp more running it if the setup is correct. $150 for the sensor and associated wiring, $100 for a fuel pump and $400-$1000 (depends on what you get) for injectors. Seems like a cheap and easy decision for me. Plus it smells better lol
Dynojet. Previous owner dynoed 558 in dallas texas, I dynoed 553 in NH after a 2 hour cruise. Note, this was through stock mufflers. I added the corsa later this summer. The tune is a tad on the rich side. Conservative. I didnt want to mess with it this summer since I knew I wanted to make some changes this winter and knew it would be bulletproof to beat on on the highway. I just wanted the tune checked under my ownership. Im sure the drivability could be improved but again, didnt want to have to pay for tuning twice.
Max effort NA build I would definitely say you should run the Mamofied MSD with the NW 102TB...and I think Tony would whole heartedly agree.
As for the cam...what lobe profile is it ground on? I agree with Michael D on his comments of sometimes bigger isn't necessarily better on this motor...we've seen "milder cams" posting up big numbers and certainly making more HP than your current combo. I would suggest a custom cam from Kip at Cam Motion.
Lastly, I hate to say it...but I think the Pfadt headers are hurting you. For what you're trying to do, I would recommend 2" ARH headers and putting your Pfadt's up for sale.
Those three things right there should get you well into the 600hp range.
Lastly, I hate to say it...but I think the Pfadt headers are hurting you. For what you're trying to do, I would recommend 2" ARH headers and putting your Pfadt's up for sale.
My K501, MSD-cleaned up but not ported, NW102 build with the Pfadt 1 7/8 headers did 602 SAE smoothing 0 rwhp at 7100 rpm, however peak torque was only 492. Dyno'd and tuned on 91 octane fuel, WCCH stage 2, .030 shaved.
Unless he wants high RPM power, I agree he should go either 1 7/8" or 2" ARH LT's
I'm with you. I see people say all the time "E85 isn't worth it", but car after car cranks out 20-30rwhp more running it if the setup is correct. $150 for the sensor and associated wiring, $100 for a fuel pump and $400-$1000 (depends on what you get) for injectors. Seems like a cheap and easy decision for me. Plus it smells better lol
I have the injector to run it.
The sensor package is cheap.
I have no desire to drop my gas tanks to install the pump. Thats a lot of effort IMO. NOW if the gas tank had to come down for, God forbid, fuel tank senders, then I would be throwing an E85 pump in it while the tanks were down.
12-08-2016, 07:26 PM
Max effort NA Cam suggestions
