meinersk

So i am about to choose a manifold for next round of mods.....was looking on the internet for manifold pics and saw this CID intake from cidheads.com and thought this looks like power.....Problem is I dont know much.....Looking for MAX n/A oem c6z06 motor.....I want the air rammed down the intake and i am willing to cut hood ....I dont care if car is pretty only fast....Spoke to martin smallwood and he knew about this intake and was raving about its power potential.....he mentioned 4500 flange throttle body but i wont be able to set that up and hes in a different state...

Question 1 .......Can i use my just purchased nick w 102 laying on top of this with adapter of course? Or nw wont work in this position?

Q 2 ...102 nw flows about 1400 cfm so should be plenty of air for 700 rwhp dynojet that is?

Question 3.....this intake was on a 1100 hp n/a car and out flowed a mast intake by 50hp so i should believe this is the style of intake for MAX n/a? P.S. i cant afford a 4000 dollar harrob with custom air pipes...

Question 4.....Will the air coming from a hood scoop collector being forced down through the 102 mm i plan on doing will it mess up the maf
or other sensors proventing this use?

Ty in advance for any imput . Kevin

meinersk

Any ansewer to any of the questions would be helpful ty....need to figure this out soon

Michael_D

I think you have better options available than trying to make a carb intake work for FI. My head hurts just looking at that intake and making it work for a C6.

meinersk

Lol.....i agree and i know you know alt more then me....whats funny is that big motor cars alwzys use this type....im sure rob z head hurt also lookng at his harrop but that was a proven setup..... i find it hard to believe a small plastic intake is tbe best option for hp....straight .runner design and getting forced air directly into heads seems to me the best way for hp.......but i could be wrong and definitely don't know to set it up....

Michael_D

There are several sheet metal and aluminum intakes available for this engine, to be used with EFI. Holley, for one. Do a search and you'll find several threads with links, pics and input.

Hib Halverson

While the practical side of me agrees with "Michael D" (as it often does) the fact remains that the set-up you are considering might work given a substantial some of money and some good calibartion work.

First the manifold you want to use is, obviously, the version intended for EFI, not the ones for carbs.

The TB doesn't care how it's mounted, longitudinally or vertically, so, as you say, all you need is an adapter plate to fit the TB to the Holley 4500 bolt pattern.

Where things are going to get tricky is how you get airflow turned 90° into that TB. For one thing, any 90° turn will be restrictive. Also, turning the air flow 90° may cause some distribution problems down stream. The design of the 90° turn will have to address that.

You'll need to put your MAF sensor ahead of the 90° bend.

Obviously, you're going to need a big-assed hood scoop, something like ProStocks used to run when they had carbs.

You'll need to have the right injectors to support 700 rwhp.

Lastly, you are going to need some calibration help and not just any guy with a laptop and HPT. Getting the calibration right is going to take some work and good cal work can be expensive.

Michael_D

Whoops.... Got such a headache I didn't bother to scroll down and see the EFI version with billet rails included..

https://www.cidheads.com/collections...osses-machined

I still wouldn't use this. At least not if the engine is going in a vette that doesn't need a ride in a car hauler every where it goes. Full on straight line race car, then it would be worth the effort.

meinersk

None of which have been much better then msd....Maybe cause they werent getting forced air....but there arent that many that even tryed....ive searched lots...JMD monte carlo guy with his victor got 700 rwhp but i believe he was drawing air from under his hood....

meinersk

Found a hood scope without 90 bend attached to a straight pipe to the intake i was playing.....hood scope forms a 45 degree bend but can collect alot of air.....ty for throttle body ansewer.....yes 60lb or better ....the scope has an 5in opening at the bottom for a straight pipe....

Unreal

If you going for a 700+ max effort crazy build, the cost of doing a 4150 style TB is small drop in the bucket.

Check out the vengance NA record holding c5 that runs 4150 style TBs.

atljar

So a little apples to oranges, but I ran a similar setup (Super vic single plane) on my old 4th gen F body. It worked great. 4th gens dont have tons of hood space either. No reason you couldnt do it with just a small cowl. For what its worth, the car made good power (and it was a BES shortblock,lol)

MTPZ06

Since you're cutting the hood...why not a Holley Hi-Ram?

meinersk

All the articals or setups ive seen with a victor or similar intake or sheetmetal intakes have not gotten much gain over a plastic manifold ported....looking at a victor or lsx single plane trying to draw air from under the hood I wouldnt think it would make much power...holley from what ive seen showed little peak gain hp and alot of loss down low in the rpm...Funny how ive never seen our cars with scoops collecting air to be forced down the intake .....Maybe because it might be pretty ugly lol and our cars are sooooo pretty...

Unreal

"ram air" or "forced air" doesn't do much of anything. The design and style of the intake is what makes power.

meinersk

Ty looked at that vengence....that car might might be able to get even more air then a scoop......you see the metal around the carb....i believe its creating a vacuum for the air to be drawn in.......very cool design there......was that a mustang dyno that car dynoed on ? Hope so......cause my oem engine has no shot at beating his aftermarket engine......why didnt he just put the biggest engine in he could fit......wonder if a 600 plus engine would fit....

Michael_D

Calling Bullshit on that. There is a time and place for a sheet metal intake. It's when the build needs straight runners, which is when peak rpm will be over 7500. Put a sheet metal intake on an engine that's built for 6500-7000 rpm, and it'll be a turd. Same principle applies to SBC's.... You use a dual plane intake for lower rpm torque, and use a single plane for higher rpm hp.

So what peak rpm are you targeting? And I'm assuming that you know the entire short block will need to be worked for the extended range?

Look through this story if you haven't yet. http://www.dragzine.com/tech-stories...liminator-ls7/

Unreal

Vengeance car does not use a carb.

Asking why they don't have a 600+ci engine just shows a lack of knowledge in LS stuff.

meinersk

I didnt say it had to be ls.....just really big.....and yes i have a large lack of knowlegde ...i also believe i have said it several times my lack of knowlegde......guess i watch to much street outlaws with there 600 plus engines...ty for pointing out the obvious.....

meinersk

Wow great article......so i guess ill be blowing my engine for some 9 second runs....lol .....wasnt thinking id be in the above 7300 rpm range though.....im aware of the prep to the engine for that.....my goal is to push OEM z06 for some 9 sec runs............ive seen several holleys articles were hp increases were small....ive seen none with alot of hp gain.......that was the reason for my eailer statement........great read that build....i will show this to my builder......

Michael_D

If you are staying under a 7500 peak rpm range, you will regret ANY sheet metal intake. <3500 rpm will fall on its face and you'll need to launch at 7K just to get the car out of the hole without stalling. Stick with the MSD. Have Mamo port one for you. Optimize the build to raise VE, bump up SCR and don't over cam the engine. You can get 650 to the wheels if you are smart about it, and have good fuel. A high compression E85 build will get you into the high 9's. And no fugly hood scoop. Look up Sebast. He's in the 9's.