[Z06] Hard starting after h/c/i
#101
Safety Car
Just got it, but its still raining and I am outside.
Nice looking unit. Moved indexing based on stock starters solenoid location and I'm ready to go.
Nice looking unit. Moved indexing based on stock starters solenoid location and I'm ready to go.
#102
Safety Car
Sounds pretty cool turning over if anything.
Let it get hot in the driveway, then drove another 20 minutes stop and go, and got back and it starts easily time and time again. Time will tell now. Hardest part was soldering on the 12v start wire extension and new eyehook. Starter fits tight, when I say tight I mean barely. Had to undo the bolt holding the trans cooling lines and take 15-20 minutes to snake it in.
No shims for teeth clearance and no abnormal noise from operation. It requires 1/16" from pinion to gear and it had that just a hair over. The heatshield on the exhaust manifold just barely touched the starter end, a couple of nudges with a screwdriver as a pry bar and it is now not touching.
Let it get hot in the driveway, then drove another 20 minutes stop and go, and got back and it starts easily time and time again. Time will tell now. Hardest part was soldering on the 12v start wire extension and new eyehook. Starter fits tight, when I say tight I mean barely. Had to undo the bolt holding the trans cooling lines and take 15-20 minutes to snake it in.
No shims for teeth clearance and no abnormal noise from operation. It requires 1/16" from pinion to gear and it had that just a hair over. The heatshield on the exhaust manifold just barely touched the starter end, a couple of nudges with a screwdriver as a pry bar and it is now not touching.
#104
Safety Car
It was a pain but I measured with a flexible carbon fiber rod.
Took the black plastic trim piece off and light in hand and reading glasses just enough space on the teeth to slide it between and the rod was a hair over 1/16 as required by B&M, uninstall put the plastic trim back on and reinstall starter.
If someone needed to shim it, one would have to hammer in the heatshield on the exhaust a little.
Took the black plastic trim piece off and light in hand and reading glasses just enough space on the teeth to slide it between and the rod was a hair over 1/16 as required by B&M, uninstall put the plastic trim back on and reinstall starter.
If someone needed to shim it, one would have to hammer in the heatshield on the exhaust a little.
Last edited by outhouse; 01-13-2017 at 10:19 PM.
#106
Safety Car
So far this seems to be the ticket.
I did some 7 k pulls last night and was giving rides and stop and starting before and after just to check and it spins up fine.
before I put the nail in the coffin, I want another week or two just to be sure.
One thing is certain, do not rebuild your stock starter.
#107
Racer
Thread Starter
#108
Safety Car
Price only. And msd offers nothing extra to deserve the added cost.
Both sites leave it vague on which one is stronger, yet both claim 18/1 compression ration as a max.
The only negative was a 100% lack of data from any LS7 user who has tried this so I went in blind. As it turns out I was lucky and it fits and works great so far.
I will update this thread and my original when I have proof with time.
#109
Team Owner
Or pick up a $105 AutoZone start with a lifetime warranty.
#110
Safety Car
Probably the best option.
I just know I had a starter working perfect before mods then hard starting hot after. For me the extra 100 bucks was piece of mind.
Even Kohle stated as you. Had I not paid 70$ to rebuild the starter by a guy Ive had do these for 30 years now with success, I would have done that a long time ago.
#111
Safety Car
After almost a week, this did fix the problem.
When hot I can still hear the starter turning harder then normal, but still turns it over plenty fast enough to easily start.
In the morning it still turns it over much quicker.
When hot I can still hear the starter turning harder then normal, but still turns it over plenty fast enough to easily start.
In the morning it still turns it over much quicker.
#113
Never had an issue with a stock starter. As long as you have a decent one, I've fried eBay ones plenty of times. Then I went to an msd unit which also worked great but when I went to larger headers it wouldn't fit so I went back to a good stock unit....no issues. If you have a large concern about heat soak get a starter blanket. It's still a lot cheaper than most of the performance starters out there
#114
Team Owner
The fix isn't a B&M starter, it is just a decent working starter.
The following users liked this post:
lt1z (01-19-2017)
#115
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Virginia Beach, VA & Port Charlotte, FL (snowbird)
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In a lot of cases I'm still thinking it's a voltage drop issue.
1) I'd install a 10' wire pigtail on the positive post of the battery.
2) Install another 10' pigtail on the solenoid post on the starter.
3) Unplug the coil packs' electrical connections on top of the engine. (so it won't fire)
4) connect your voltmeter between the two pigtails.
5) Have a buddy crank the engine for you
6) measure voltage
EDIT: to check for correct ground move your pigtail from the positive side of the battery to the negative side. Move your starter pigtail from the solenoid to a grounded starter bolt. Do the same cranking test.
If you measure over a volt or two then there's a significant voltage drop causing your problem. If not, it's the connection at the starter or the starter itself. I always do a check like this before starting to replace things. FWIW, my original starter still cranks like new @ 106K miles.
1) I'd install a 10' wire pigtail on the positive post of the battery.
2) Install another 10' pigtail on the solenoid post on the starter.
3) Unplug the coil packs' electrical connections on top of the engine. (so it won't fire)
4) connect your voltmeter between the two pigtails.
5) Have a buddy crank the engine for you
6) measure voltage
EDIT: to check for correct ground move your pigtail from the positive side of the battery to the negative side. Move your starter pigtail from the solenoid to a grounded starter bolt. Do the same cranking test.
If you measure over a volt or two then there's a significant voltage drop causing your problem. If not, it's the connection at the starter or the starter itself. I always do a check like this before starting to replace things. FWIW, my original starter still cranks like new @ 106K miles.
Last edited by Undy; 01-19-2017 at 07:59 AM. Reason: more info
#116
Safety Car
Well it does have more torque so it is a cure/fix.
A stock starter may work too, Kohle says he uses them on this cam with success. And Kohle called this problem a long time ago in a personal message.
The reason I went this way was having my starter rebuilt and the guy stating it was in perfect condition, and ive known him for over 30 years and trust his work. So I was not going to make the same mistake twice.
#117
Team Owner
Odd that it still exhibits different hot/cold behavior...but at least it doesn't create issues for you any longer. It would probably still bug me enough to keep troubleshooting in my spare time.
#118
Safety Car
I have ideas but its a guess at this point.
Tuning is still on the table making it harder to turn over when hot.
#119
Team Owner
My autozone starter shows zero difference hot/cold. Fires up instantly. Same with the stock starter until the solenoid broke. I bet if I put it back on same thing.
If your starter/wiring is in good shape it works fine. If it isn't, you have issues. Really not complicated at all.
If your starter/wiring is in good shape it works fine. If it isn't, you have issues. Really not complicated at all.
#120
Safety Car
My autozone starter shows zero difference hot/cold. Fires up instantly. Same with the stock starter until the solenoid broke. I bet if I put it back on same thing.
If your starter/wiring is in good shape it works fine. If it isn't, you have issues. Really not complicated at all.
If your starter/wiring is in good shape it works fine. If it isn't, you have issues. Really not complicated at all.
I don't think it has been determined to be just starter or wiring.
When its hot again, I should pull the main coil pack wires on each bank and see if it turns over quickly or normal with no engine spark. That would eliminate tuning