[Z06] E85 and the fuel pump controversy
01-15-2017, 12:32 PM
#1
E85 and the fuel pump controversy
Ok I'll start by stating all the information I've learned over my hours of reading and only stating what seems important as far as questions that need answered to fully understand the opinions on this subject
Many that are needing more fuel volume whether it being a switch to e85 or more hp are installing the walbro 450 e85 compatable pump (my focus will be on the need for more fuel volume because I'm switching to e85) in their factory fuel basket . Obviously there are many who have completed this modification with no problems and are driving their cars with no issues. My first question is WILL THE FACTORY REGULATOR FAIL OVER TIME BECAUSE OF PROLONGED PRESSURE , MORE THAN WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO HANDLE , FROM THE 450 PUMP
The vendor RACETRONIX on this site states the factory regulator is not designed for the added pressure from the 450 pump and even if it seems to be fine for now the base pressure still rises because the regulator cannot function properly .
Many have asked about direct drop in replacements and 2 were mentioned in my research , first I will discuss in the lingenfelter drop in replacement , here are the specs on it
- Flows over 260 lph at 13.5 volts at 400 kPa (58 psi) fuel pressure. This flow rating is module output (to the fuel rail) and accounts for the flow required to drive the modules internal venturi pump, the passenger side venturi transfer pump and the pressure drop across the check valve, internal fuel filter and other internal components (fittings, lines etc.)
- On gasoline at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 800 HP naturally aspirated (~0.5 BSFC) and 700 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications (~0.6 BSFC)
- On E85 at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 650 HP naturally aspirated and 500 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications
- Can be voltage boosted up to 18 volts for additional fuel flow increase
My second questions is regarding this setup , HOW CAN A PUMP THAT ONLY FLOWS 260 LITERS PER HOUR SUPPORT 650HP ON E85 , ARENT OUR FACTORY PUMPS 255 LITERS PER HOUR ? I'm sure that means crank hp so about 550rwhp sound accurate?
So obviously a simple answer would be our factory pumps CAN support the hp but are not e85 compatible . So my third question is WHY CANT WE PUT IN A REPLACEMENT PUMP THAT WONT OVER WORK THE FACTORY REGULATOR THAT IS E85 COMPATIBLE ? I'm just curious as why people are jumping straight to a 450lph pump when lingenfelter is saying their 260lph pump will support 650hp (550rwhp) on an e85 application ?
The second drop in replacement fuel pump assembly was from Racetronix , here are the specs and part number on it
Walbro TU476 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Tank High Pressure fuel pump operating at 13 Volts with 60 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 46 GPH @ Outlet.
If you go on their site and enter the part number "TU-476" it will pull every thing up for you , it doesn't say e85 compatible or give RWHP guidelines versus output but 46gph is only 175lph so seems inadequate regardless.
I've done some research and there are 320lph e85 compatible pumps that could be fitted into our factory fuel baskets similar to how people are doing the 450 installs (cutting the basket to allow fuel into the pump) and I'm curious if they would be less stressful on the factory regulator and still easily support the power at 320lph ?
Many that are needing more fuel volume whether it being a switch to e85 or more hp are installing the walbro 450 e85 compatable pump (my focus will be on the need for more fuel volume because I'm switching to e85) in their factory fuel basket . Obviously there are many who have completed this modification with no problems and are driving their cars with no issues. My first question is WILL THE FACTORY REGULATOR FAIL OVER TIME BECAUSE OF PROLONGED PRESSURE , MORE THAN WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO HANDLE , FROM THE 450 PUMP
The vendor RACETRONIX on this site states the factory regulator is not designed for the added pressure from the 450 pump and even if it seems to be fine for now the base pressure still rises because the regulator cannot function properly .
Many have asked about direct drop in replacements and 2 were mentioned in my research , first I will discuss in the lingenfelter drop in replacement , here are the specs on it
- Flows over 260 lph at 13.5 volts at 400 kPa (58 psi) fuel pressure. This flow rating is module output (to the fuel rail) and accounts for the flow required to drive the modules internal venturi pump, the passenger side venturi transfer pump and the pressure drop across the check valve, internal fuel filter and other internal components (fittings, lines etc.)
- On gasoline at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 800 HP naturally aspirated (~0.5 BSFC) and 700 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications (~0.6 BSFC)
- On E85 at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 650 HP naturally aspirated and 500 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications
- Can be voltage boosted up to 18 volts for additional fuel flow increase
My second questions is regarding this setup , HOW CAN A PUMP THAT ONLY FLOWS 260 LITERS PER HOUR SUPPORT 650HP ON E85 , ARENT OUR FACTORY PUMPS 255 LITERS PER HOUR ? I'm sure that means crank hp so about 550rwhp sound accurate?
So obviously a simple answer would be our factory pumps CAN support the hp but are not e85 compatible . So my third question is WHY CANT WE PUT IN A REPLACEMENT PUMP THAT WONT OVER WORK THE FACTORY REGULATOR THAT IS E85 COMPATIBLE ? I'm just curious as why people are jumping straight to a 450lph pump when lingenfelter is saying their 260lph pump will support 650hp (550rwhp) on an e85 application ?
The second drop in replacement fuel pump assembly was from Racetronix , here are the specs and part number on it
Walbro TU476 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Tank High Pressure fuel pump operating at 13 Volts with 60 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 46 GPH @ Outlet.
If you go on their site and enter the part number "TU-476" it will pull every thing up for you , it doesn't say e85 compatible or give RWHP guidelines versus output but 46gph is only 175lph so seems inadequate regardless.
I've done some research and there are 320lph e85 compatible pumps that could be fitted into our factory fuel baskets similar to how people are doing the 450 installs (cutting the basket to allow fuel into the pump) and I'm curious if they would be less stressful on the factory regulator and still easily support the power at 320lph ?
Last edited by injfuel; 01-15-2017 at 01:11 PM.
01-16-2017, 10:25 AM
#3
i haven't heard of any factory regulators having problems with the 450lph pump, but i also haven't searched for the issue either. i know plenty of people running this pump for some time now without any problems. maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in. i think you will be okay and might be looking into this a little too much.
01-16-2017, 10:37 AM
#4
i haven't heard of any factory regulators having problems with the 450lph pump, but i also haven't searched for the issue either. i know plenty of people running this pump for some time now without any problems. maybe someone with more knowledge can chime in. i think you will be okay and might be looking into this a little too much.
Walbro doesn't manufacture a direct-fit HP pump for the C5/C6 top-loaded modules. NONE of their 400LPH+ HP pumps have the brass fitting which supplies the module's integral siphon jet. This jet is used to fill the bucket regardless of the tank level so that the pump stays submerged under cornering / acceleration.
The Walbro TU476-1 Z06 module is equipped with the highest output pump Walbro offers for this application: http://www.racetronix.biz/itemdesc.a...U476-1&eq=&Tp=
Installing a Walbro F90000267 or F90000274 pump will disable the siphon jet and require that modifications are made to the module to prevent fuel starvation. The single fuel equalization valve on the bottom of the module will not flow enough fuel to sustain a 400LPH+ pump under WOT.
Installing a 400LPH+ pump will overwhelm the factory regulator in the module so a pressure rise over the base 58 PSI can be expected.
AND THIS .......
1. The factory return system / regulator can NOT handle the fuel volume of the F90000267 and F90000262 pumps so a rail-mounted regulator with -6 Teflon return line will be required. Running the system without this will cause a major pressure rise and premature pump failure.
Last edited by injfuel; 01-16-2017 at 10:38 AM.
01-16-2017, 11:15 AM
#6
Melting Slicks
I thought the LPE pump was the C6 Z06 pump that they were installing into C5s and base C6 as an "upgrade" ??
01-16-2017, 11:48 AM
#7
01-16-2017, 11:53 AM
#8
Interesting info. Thx for posting. Where would you install the regulator? I posted up pics in your other thread (which im sure uve seen)of my modified fuel bucket so i think the chances s of starving the pump for fuel are slim to none.
Last edited by Schred86; 01-16-2017 at 11:53 AM.
01-16-2017, 12:09 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Walbro pump
I spoke to walbro the c6 z 06 has a 255 pump and many na 700 motor HP z's are running factory pump which would loop back to your original 700-800 HP comment. The 2006 z06 has I think the 475 pump which is also 255 l p h.
01-16-2017, 12:43 PM
#10
Ok so I'll be running the aeromotive 340 with the racetronix hot wire kit AND intermediate harness as well with e85 and I'll be under 600whp so should I be ok ?
01-16-2017, 02:32 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
I would call aeromotive and ask them not sure the conversion ratio from gas to e85.
01-16-2017, 02:42 PM
#12
Former Vendor
LPE C6 fuel pump
The factory Z06 pump is not rated at 260 lph at 4 bar (58 psi) when you are looking at flow to the rail (accounting for the venturi pumps).
The pump used in our E85 compatible C6 fuel pump module is rated at 450 lph at 43 psi pump only. But when you raise the pressure to 58 psi and account for the losses in the system due to filters, check valves and venturi pumps then that is where you get the 260 lph.
All of the power levels quoted below from LPE are crank horsepower.
The pump used in our E85 compatible C6 fuel pump module is rated at 450 lph at 43 psi pump only. But when you raise the pressure to 58 psi and account for the losses in the system due to filters, check valves and venturi pumps then that is where you get the 260 lph.
All of the power levels quoted below from LPE are crank horsepower.
Ok I'll start by stating all the information I've learned over my hours of reading and only stating what seems important as far as questions that need answered to fully understand the opinions on this subject
Many that are needing more fuel volume whether it being a switch to e85 or more hp are installing the walbro 450 e85 compatable pump (my focus will be on the need for more fuel volume because I'm switching to e85) in their factory fuel basket . Obviously there are many who have completed this modification with no problems and are driving their cars with no issues. My first question is WILL THE FACTORY REGULATOR FAIL OVER TIME BECAUSE OF PROLONGED PRESSURE , MORE THAN WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO HANDLE , FROM THE 450 PUMP
The vendor RACETRONIX on this site states the factory regulator is not designed for the added pressure from the 450 pump and even if it seems to be fine for now the base pressure still rises because the regulator cannot function properly .
Many have asked about direct drop in replacements and 2 were mentioned in my research , first I will discuss in the lingenfelter drop in replacement , here are the specs on it
- Flows over 260 lph at 13.5 volts at 400 kPa (58 psi) fuel pressure. This flow rating is module output (to the fuel rail) and accounts for the flow required to drive the modules internal venturi pump, the passenger side venturi transfer pump and the pressure drop across the check valve, internal fuel filter and other internal components (fittings, lines etc.)
- On gasoline at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 800 HP naturally aspirated (~0.5 BSFC) and 700 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications (~0.6 BSFC)
- On E85 at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 650 HP naturally aspirated and 500 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications
- Can be voltage boosted up to 18 volts for additional fuel flow increase
My second questions is regarding this setup , HOW CAN A PUMP THAT ONLY FLOWS 260 LITERS PER HOUR SUPPORT 650HP ON E85 , ARENT OUR FACTORY PUMPS 255 LITERS PER HOUR ? I'm sure that means crank hp so about 550rwhp sound accurate?
So obviously a simple answer would be our factory pumps CAN support the hp but are not e85 compatible . So my third question is WHY CANT WE PUT IN A REPLACEMENT PUMP THAT WONT OVER WORK THE FACTORY REGULATOR THAT IS E85 COMPATIBLE ? I'm just curious as why people are jumping straight to a 450lph pump when lingenfelter is saying their 260lph pump will support 650hp (550rwhp) on an e85 application ?
The second drop in replacement fuel pump assembly was from Racetronix , here are the specs and part number on it
Walbro TU476 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Tank High Pressure fuel pump operating at 13 Volts with 60 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 46 GPH @ Outlet.
If you go on their site and enter the part number "TU-476" it will pull every thing up for you , it doesn't say e85 compatible or give RWHP guidelines versus output but 46gph is only 175lph so seems inadequate regardless.
I've done some research and there are 320lph e85 compatible pumps that could be fitted into our factory fuel baskets similar to how people are doing the 450 installs (cutting the basket to allow fuel into the pump) and I'm curious if they would be less stressful on the factory regulator and still easily support the power at 320lph ?
Many that are needing more fuel volume whether it being a switch to e85 or more hp are installing the walbro 450 e85 compatable pump (my focus will be on the need for more fuel volume because I'm switching to e85) in their factory fuel basket . Obviously there are many who have completed this modification with no problems and are driving their cars with no issues. My first question is WILL THE FACTORY REGULATOR FAIL OVER TIME BECAUSE OF PROLONGED PRESSURE , MORE THAN WHAT IT WAS DESIGNED TO HANDLE , FROM THE 450 PUMP
The vendor RACETRONIX on this site states the factory regulator is not designed for the added pressure from the 450 pump and even if it seems to be fine for now the base pressure still rises because the regulator cannot function properly .
Many have asked about direct drop in replacements and 2 were mentioned in my research , first I will discuss in the lingenfelter drop in replacement , here are the specs on it
- Flows over 260 lph at 13.5 volts at 400 kPa (58 psi) fuel pressure. This flow rating is module output (to the fuel rail) and accounts for the flow required to drive the modules internal venturi pump, the passenger side venturi transfer pump and the pressure drop across the check valve, internal fuel filter and other internal components (fittings, lines etc.)
- On gasoline at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 800 HP naturally aspirated (~0.5 BSFC) and 700 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications (~0.6 BSFC)
- On E85 at 13.5 volts the module will support roughly 650 HP naturally aspirated and 500 HP for turbocharged/supercharged applications
- Can be voltage boosted up to 18 volts for additional fuel flow increase
My second questions is regarding this setup , HOW CAN A PUMP THAT ONLY FLOWS 260 LITERS PER HOUR SUPPORT 650HP ON E85 , ARENT OUR FACTORY PUMPS 255 LITERS PER HOUR ? I'm sure that means crank hp so about 550rwhp sound accurate?
So obviously a simple answer would be our factory pumps CAN support the hp but are not e85 compatible . So my third question is WHY CANT WE PUT IN A REPLACEMENT PUMP THAT WONT OVER WORK THE FACTORY REGULATOR THAT IS E85 COMPATIBLE ? I'm just curious as why people are jumping straight to a 450lph pump when lingenfelter is saying their 260lph pump will support 650hp (550rwhp) on an e85 application ?
The second drop in replacement fuel pump assembly was from Racetronix , here are the specs and part number on it
Walbro TU476 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Tank High Pressure fuel pump operating at 13 Volts with 60 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 46 GPH @ Outlet.
If you go on their site and enter the part number "TU-476" it will pull every thing up for you , it doesn't say e85 compatible or give RWHP guidelines versus output but 46gph is only 175lph so seems inadequate regardless.
I've done some research and there are 320lph e85 compatible pumps that could be fitted into our factory fuel baskets similar to how people are doing the 450 installs (cutting the basket to allow fuel into the pump) and I'm curious if they would be less stressful on the factory regulator and still easily support the power at 320lph ?
01-16-2017, 02:51 PM
#13
Former Vendor
LPE C5 pump, C6 Z06 pump etc.
No, the LPE C6 fuel pump module (part # L710140105) is a direct fit replacement fuel pump module for all C6 Corvettes (except the ZR1) that includes an E85 compatible fuel pump (the Z06 pump is not E85 compatible). This module also fits the 2003.5 to 2004 C5 Corvettes that use the C6 style fuel tanks.
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
01-16-2017, 02:53 PM
#14
Former Vendor
01-16-2017, 03:22 PM
#15
No, the LPE C6 fuel pump module (part # L710140105) is a direct fit replacement fuel pump module for all C6 Corvettes (except the ZR1) that includes an E85 compatible fuel pump (the Z06 pump is not E85 compatible). This module also fits the 2003.5 to 2004 C5 Corvettes that use the C6 style fuel tanks.
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
01-16-2017, 03:25 PM
#16
Racer
The second drop in replacement fuel pump assembly was from Racetronix , here are the specs and part number on it
Walbro TU476 Electric Fuel Pump is an In-Tank High Pressure fuel pump operating at 13 Volts with 60 PSI Pressure. Pumping out Min 46 GPH @ Outlet.
If you go on their site and enter the part number "TU-476" it will pull every thing up for you , it doesn't say e85 compatible or give RWHP guidelines versus output but 46gph is only 175lph so seems inadequate regardless.
01-16-2017, 04:10 PM
#17
Man let me tell you I lost sleep on fuel system options with my 02 C5Z. I wanted a simple factory type of upgrade. My car makes 608rwhp on E85 NA. I went with a racetronix 255 kit along with their wiring kit and a set of 80s to cover me if there was a pressure drop up top. 3,000 miles this season and all is well. When I started on the dyno with my street tune I was at 11:1 AFR at WOT to 7k rpm. I hope to crank it up to 640rwhp this spring with a better CAI and 3" axle back.
01-16-2017, 04:42 PM
#18
Team Owner
Couldn't pay me to run an aeromotive pumps. Reliability on them is junk. Run an aem or something else of you really want a e85 320 pump.
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lt1z (01-26-2017)
01-16-2017, 05:40 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
No, the LPE C6 fuel pump module (part # L710140105) is a direct fit replacement fuel pump module for all C6 Corvettes (except the ZR1) that includes an E85 compatible fuel pump (the Z06 pump is not E85 compatible). This module also fits the 2003.5 to 2004 C5 Corvettes that use the C6 style fuel tanks.
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
The LPE C5 fuel pump module (part # L710650197) is a higher flow replacement module for the 1997-2003.5 model year Corvettes. It is not the 2001-2003.5 Z06 (LS6) pump - that fuel pump flows the same as the base LS1 fuel pump.
The C6 module will not work in the C5 Corvette because the fuel tanks are different (pump location, venturi pump lines etc.).
01-16-2017, 07:40 PM
#20