[Z06] Tough Performance Talk
12-21-2004, 04:30 PM
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Tough Performance Talk
Jim Hall on the Digital Website is doing some straight talking about the performance potential of the new Z06. Here is a sample:
Here are the most recent stats on the F1:
"So what makes the McLaren F1 such a killer of other supercars? What is that sets it apart from every other car on the road and gives it that $1,000,000 sticker price? Well, How does a 0-60 time of about three seconds? And that's for a stocker, off the "showroom floor" McLaren. A bit of massaging and the mid-engine, rear-drive monster can break into the two second world. Will the fact that the McLaren can reach 100 mph while other cars are sweating to hit 60 shock you?
The engine, at least has to impress; it's a 6.0L V12 mounted aft of the center-drive cabin. Maximum horsepower is over 600 and torque, that's a few pounds short of 500 lb-ft. That combination, along with a high-capacity tranny gives the McLaren a standing 1/4 mile time of 11 seconds flat. Top speed on the 2,500 lb, three-seater is in excess of 200 mph."
I predict that when in the hands of the pros, the Z06 will "bitch slap" the F1!
Jim Hall
Followed by:
Here is something to think about
I have dynoed over 400 pulls with various C5s, and have owned 4 C5s, and one Z06 in N/A form and twin turbo 600 RWHP.
The stock Z06 with factory 2001 385 HP dynoed at around 345 RWHP. The 2002 factory rated 405 HP Z06 dynoed at 350 to 355 RWHP. In 2004 the Z06 was dynoing at around 365 RWHP. All stock.
The 2004 Z06 was making around 435 FWHP, based on the RWHP numbers. We use 15% or if you take the RWHP/.85 you can interpolate the approximate FWHP.
The C6 Z06 will be rated at 500 HP, but will likely be around 525 to 535 HP if my calculator is correct.
GM knows that everyone will dyno their Z06. Everyone. To error on the side of more rather than less, they have built a safety margin into this motor.
I know that during track testing, one of my customers was the driver of one of 4 Z06 427s being tested over 18 months ago. The motor was in a C5 platform, since the C6 had not been released. He told me that all the drivers were told that the 427 was rated at 535 HP.
Their feedback was that it was too much power! But remember, the motor was in a C5, not the 2900 lb. carbon fiber C6 Z06.
Things change, but my guess is that the motor did not lose much of this power. How could it? Smaller cam profile? At a .591" lift, this cam will be the highest lift small block cam ever delivered by GM to the public.
Since the motor coming to market is a full race motor, sporting titanium rods, dry sump oil system, forged components, magnesium engine cradle, and a new hydroformed aluminum frame, what could they have done to detune the test motors.
Even if the stated 512 HP goal is realized, this motor will likely dyno at 90 to 100 more RWHP or
105 to 118 more FWHP than the 04 Z06.
Taking the average 04 Z06 at 365 RWHP you get and adding 90 RWHP you get 455 RWHP for the new C6 Z06.
This car will shame the competition, showing what American ingenuity is all about.
There are folks that will not like this car, but they will not be Chevy fans, but likely folks across the street in Wixom, MI.
Jim Hall
Here are the most recent stats on the F1:
"So what makes the McLaren F1 such a killer of other supercars? What is that sets it apart from every other car on the road and gives it that $1,000,000 sticker price? Well, How does a 0-60 time of about three seconds? And that's for a stocker, off the "showroom floor" McLaren. A bit of massaging and the mid-engine, rear-drive monster can break into the two second world. Will the fact that the McLaren can reach 100 mph while other cars are sweating to hit 60 shock you?
The engine, at least has to impress; it's a 6.0L V12 mounted aft of the center-drive cabin. Maximum horsepower is over 600 and torque, that's a few pounds short of 500 lb-ft. That combination, along with a high-capacity tranny gives the McLaren a standing 1/4 mile time of 11 seconds flat. Top speed on the 2,500 lb, three-seater is in excess of 200 mph."
I predict that when in the hands of the pros, the Z06 will "bitch slap" the F1!
Jim Hall
Followed by:
Here is something to think about
I have dynoed over 400 pulls with various C5s, and have owned 4 C5s, and one Z06 in N/A form and twin turbo 600 RWHP.
The stock Z06 with factory 2001 385 HP dynoed at around 345 RWHP. The 2002 factory rated 405 HP Z06 dynoed at 350 to 355 RWHP. In 2004 the Z06 was dynoing at around 365 RWHP. All stock.
The 2004 Z06 was making around 435 FWHP, based on the RWHP numbers. We use 15% or if you take the RWHP/.85 you can interpolate the approximate FWHP.
The C6 Z06 will be rated at 500 HP, but will likely be around 525 to 535 HP if my calculator is correct.
GM knows that everyone will dyno their Z06. Everyone. To error on the side of more rather than less, they have built a safety margin into this motor.
I know that during track testing, one of my customers was the driver of one of 4 Z06 427s being tested over 18 months ago. The motor was in a C5 platform, since the C6 had not been released. He told me that all the drivers were told that the 427 was rated at 535 HP.
Their feedback was that it was too much power! But remember, the motor was in a C5, not the 2900 lb. carbon fiber C6 Z06.
Things change, but my guess is that the motor did not lose much of this power. How could it? Smaller cam profile? At a .591" lift, this cam will be the highest lift small block cam ever delivered by GM to the public.
Since the motor coming to market is a full race motor, sporting titanium rods, dry sump oil system, forged components, magnesium engine cradle, and a new hydroformed aluminum frame, what could they have done to detune the test motors.
Even if the stated 512 HP goal is realized, this motor will likely dyno at 90 to 100 more RWHP or
105 to 118 more FWHP than the 04 Z06.
Taking the average 04 Z06 at 365 RWHP you get and adding 90 RWHP you get 455 RWHP for the new C6 Z06.
This car will shame the competition, showing what American ingenuity is all about.
There are folks that will not like this car, but they will not be Chevy fans, but likely folks across the street in Wixom, MI.
Jim Hall
12-21-2004, 04:47 PM
#3
i dunno. A non-exotic having better performance than a 1 million dollar exotic?
Seems far fetched.
I will say this. You hang round import forums and you run into twin turbo'd sub 4 liter street driven cars boasting 1000hp. Rare but true. I've seen dyno'd 2.5 cars at 450 whp. So 600 to 700 hp from a 427ci motor isn't that far of a stretch in some ways.
But if so, few mortal vette potential buyers will be able to afford one unless they build a bunch. The big boys will be bidding these things out of many buyers range before they hit the showroom floor.
I expect something different for a F1 league car. But who knows.
Unless.. at the time of release the big anouncement is not something on the new Z06, but a Z06R version built to compete with the Ford GT and its ilk.... So maybe they'll anounce the Z06 and the Z06R in January.
Seems far fetched.
I will say this. You hang round import forums and you run into twin turbo'd sub 4 liter street driven cars boasting 1000hp. Rare but true. I've seen dyno'd 2.5 cars at 450 whp. So 600 to 700 hp from a 427ci motor isn't that far of a stretch in some ways.
But if so, few mortal vette potential buyers will be able to afford one unless they build a bunch. The big boys will be bidding these things out of many buyers range before they hit the showroom floor.
I expect something different for a F1 league car. But who knows.
Unless.. at the time of release the big anouncement is not something on the new Z06, but a Z06R version built to compete with the Ford GT and its ilk.... So maybe they'll anounce the Z06 and the Z06R in January.
Last edited by tolnep; 12-21-2004 at 04:50 PM.
12-21-2004, 05:17 PM
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http://www.corvettec5.com/store/?pag...c31510b4203269
This is Jim's Website. He is not just another bulls**t artist. But, he is making some bold statements. It just leads me to believe that either he is heavily medicated, or he knows something we don't and he can't share.
This is Jim's Website. He is not just another bulls**t artist. But, he is making some bold statements. It just leads me to believe that either he is heavily medicated, or he knows something we don't and he can't share.
12-21-2004, 06:24 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Comparing the new Z06 to the Mclaren F1 is rediculous at best.
I am just hoping it will be faster than the Viper for at least one year.
I don't know anything about Jim Hall but it all sounds like a bunch of hype to me. I currently own a car with over 640 FWHP NA and believe me, they are fast but you get used to the extra 100-200 hp real fast.
If I had one of these new Z06's I would be looking to add another 100 after I owned it a week.
Catch word for the next month is hype, hype and more hype. Maybe if they get enough out there they WILL be able to get 80,000 for one.
With all of this hype everyone should be ready for sticker shock. It is starting to look to me that the new Z06 will be exclusive and the regular C6 will be for everyone else.
I am just hoping it will be faster than the Viper for at least one year.
I don't know anything about Jim Hall but it all sounds like a bunch of hype to me. I currently own a car with over 640 FWHP NA and believe me, they are fast but you get used to the extra 100-200 hp real fast.
If I had one of these new Z06's I would be looking to add another 100 after I owned it a week.
Catch word for the next month is hype, hype and more hype. Maybe if they get enough out there they WILL be able to get 80,000 for one.
With all of this hype everyone should be ready for sticker shock. It is starting to look to me that the new Z06 will be exclusive and the regular C6 will be for everyone else.
Last edited by 4cefed; 12-21-2004 at 07:07 PM.
12-21-2004, 11:07 PM
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Supercars and Super Cars
There are supercars and then there are super cars! When Ferrari developed the Enzo (or F60 as it was originally christened), it had but one car squarely in its sights: the Ameritech Mclaren F1! Ferrari engineers had little trouble besting the McLaren's 6.0L V12's output of 627 hp, but they blew the curb weight target of 2650 lbs by an eternity as the Enzo tips the scales at a portly 3250 lbs, all that wonderful carbon fiber notwithstanding. While there are very few instrumented test comparisons of both cars made on the same day, best documented tests reveal that both are extremely close in straightline speed. It took Ferrari the better part of a decade to regain the title of world's fastest supercar, despite all the F1 technology at their disposal.
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 1320' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 1320' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
Last edited by raj; 12-22-2004 at 10:24 AM. Reason: correction, thanks to OldZR-1Guy!
12-21-2004, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by raj
There are supercars and then there are super cars! When Ferrari developed the Enzo (or F60 as it was originally christened), it had but one car squarely in its sights: the Ameritech Mclaren F1! Ferrari engineers had little trouble besting the McLaren's 6.0L V12's output of 627 hp, but they blew the curb weight target of 2650 lbs by an eternity as the Enzo tips the scales at a portly 3250 lbs, all that wonderful carbon fiber notwithstanding. While there are very few instrumented test comparisons of both cars made on the same day, best documented tests reveal that both are extremely close in straightline speed. It took Ferrari the better part of a decade to regain the title of world's fastest supercar, despite all the F1 technology at their disposal.
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
-Jeo
12-21-2004, 11:15 PM
#9
Team Owner
Originally Posted by raj
There are supercars and then there are super cars! When Ferrari developed the Enzo (or F60 as it was originally christened), it had but one car squarely in its sights: the Ameritech Mclaren F1! Ferrari engineers had little trouble besting the McLaren's 6.0L V12's output of 627 hp, but they blew the curb weight target of 2650 lbs by an eternity as the Enzo tips the scales at a portly 3250 lbs, all that wonderful carbon fiber notwithstanding. While there are very few instrumented test comparisons of both cars made on the same day, best documented tests reveal that both are extremely close in straightline speed. It took Ferrari the better part of a decade to regain the title of world's fastest supercar, despite all the F1 technology at their disposal.
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
The C6 Z06 promises to be an incredible machine, and will sqaure off with the new 483-hp 430 Modena and the soon-to-debut 997 Turbo. There are reasons why the C6 with 400 hp and less weight is still only as quick as the 355 hp 997S - weight distribution being one and gearing, obviously the bigger culprit. This will NOT change on the Z06, as GM still has to please the powers-to-be at the EPA, not to mention the "insiders" that will throw a fit if this car is slapped with the gas guzzler tax. So the Z06, even with the rumored 500 hp, already has its work cut out by its competition, the 430 and the 997TT. It will likely bring more ponies to the table, but will enjoy neither the advantageous weight distribution of the mid- and rear-engined rivals nor their optimized gearing. The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged. Time will tell how close this trio will be matched.
Suffice to say, the Z06 will be in hallowed territory and will bring a value proposition that will be unprecedented. But anyone that thinks it will even challenge the Mclaren F1, or the Enzo, or the Carrera GT, or some other no-holds-barred, gas-guzzling, pavement-ripping, rare-as-hen's-molars supercar needs to have their head examined! Or maybe, they should just pass around some of the good stuff that they've been inhaling!
That's 1/4 ton diference in weight (Mclaren) and ~100 hp less.
12-21-2004, 11:19 PM
#10
Originally Posted by raj
The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123 mph, and rest assured that Porche won't let that feat go unchallenged.
12-22-2004, 12:55 AM
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The 430 has already been tested at 11.7 seconds to the 5280' at 123
Not to be picky, but I think you meant 1320'. Otherwise that car is really quick but not very fast.
Not to be picky, but I think you meant 1320'. Otherwise that car is really quick but not very fast.
12-22-2004, 09:33 AM
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Jim Hall from Halltech has tested a great number of Corvettes both before and after mods. His rwhp. numbers are based on a wide sampling of Z06's from 2001 forward, so his data is reasonbly accurate! Having owned both an 01 and now an 04 Z06 I find his dyno numbers are in line!
IMHO.. the new C6-Z06 will match or exceed the top end cars from Porsche (tt 997), Viper (500 hp), and Ferrari's new 430. The C-6 Z06 should also "worry the Ford GT 43" !
Thats quite a feat for a GM car priced considerablly less than the europeans.
We will have to wait for the " BLUE DEVIL " before we see GM challenging the Porsche Carrera GT, Ferrari's Enzo, or possibly Mercedes SLR... all considered "Super Cars" and priced as such!
12-22-2004, 11:55 AM
#13
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Fulton 1
There are relatively stock C5 ZO6's pushing those numbers. I think that was supporting evidence for Jim's claims in the DC thread...
This just rubbed me the wrong way because I hate when we start comparing modded cars to stock.
As for Jim Hall, I predict that when in the hands of the pros, the Z06 will NOT "bitch slap" the F1, a car with 100 more ponies and and weighing in at 500lbs less. It will compete well with the Ferrari 430, Porsche TT and Viper.
This thread will get linked by many other car enthusiasts forums and we will be a laughing stock.
12-22-2004, 12:31 PM
#14
Race Director
Originally Posted by rbarta
I hate to ask, but WTF is relatively stock to you? What mods and how many $$$. Do you mean heads/cam and drag radials? The C5 Z06 stock is a mid 12s car (12.4-12.6), not a 11.7 car.
Maybe not 11.7 but 11.8-.9.
12-22-2004, 01:22 PM
#15
Race Director
http://www.gmhightechperformance.com...es/0410htp_zo/
There ya go, bone stock z06 11.9@117mph.
Add 100hp and ?
There ya go, bone stock z06 11.9@117mph.
Add 100hp and ?
12-22-2004, 01:53 PM
#16
Melting Slicks
Going to need a lot more than 100 ponies to "bitch slap" a Mclaren F1.
I think the average Z06 with 525 SAE net hp and a 3,200-3,250 lb (with driver) weight could run MID 11's on street rubber. Not high 10's and certainly not faster than a Mclaren F1.
Sounds like a really fast car from the production line.
I think the average Z06 with 525 SAE net hp and a 3,200-3,250 lb (with driver) weight could run MID 11's on street rubber. Not high 10's and certainly not faster than a Mclaren F1.
Sounds like a really fast car from the production line.
Originally Posted by flood
[url]
Add 100hp and ?
Add 100hp and ?
