Jp23rockstar

I also voted for a mid engine c8. AWD is not required for me, but it could be good for others. I want the c8 to be RWD like the Ferrari 458 italia.

Jinx

BlueOx --

"Are you saying the potential Corvette AWD system has higher power requirements than a 12 cyl. 650+hp Ferrari that weighs a lot more?" No, that it has higher power requirements than GM's existing AWD technology. When you nitpick you suck at spotting context.

"I've always said AWD would be a great model/option that could bring new audiences into the Corvette sales picture." Over and over and over, but has repetition convinced anyone? Look at the poll results. Substantial investment, specious benefit to GM overall, and for something that turns away well over twice as many buyers as it satisfies (as I write this). Maybe not such a great idea yet.

.Jinx

JustinStrife

Have GM build a separate sports car with AWD, Mid-engine, and a TT V6 like all of you want to bad. Leave the Corvette alone.

LS1LT1

Likely not, but we don't actually know that for sure though.
I'm sure Nissan wasn't planning on building a portly 3800+ pound (or even Porsche with their 3500+ pound 911 Turbo) AWD sports coupe either, but it still turned out that way.
A ZR1 already weighs well over 3300+ pounds (certainly not 'heavy' by comparison, but still) and that's with the engineers trying to keep the weight down through the use of an aluminum frame and carbon fiber/magnesium materials...what will AWD (and all that it entails) add to that?

tuxnharley

My guess? 250 lbs +/-, so a 3550 lb car by today's standards. Better than Nissan; about equal to Porsche. I'm still not interested........

JustinStrife

Flex182

It seems people are already feeling let down by the C7 and its not even out yet, so their skipping ahead and talking about the C8.
That tells me people want Revolutionary not evolutionary

SanDiegoBert

One man's "evolution" is another man's "revolution".

What I don't want is UGLY!

Yeah, I know, beauty is in the eye of the beerholder.

millpond

Good One

Jinx

I wonder, if a regular on Rennlist or Planet-9 were to poll how many buyers would switch to Corvette if it had AWD, what those poll results would look like.

JoesC5

I wouldn't be interested in a Smart car even if it had AWD, yet I own a Mercedes.

I feel I'm the target market for a Corvette, as I've purchased several new Corvettes and currently own one(actually own three), so I suspect my wants/wishes would carry more water with GM then someone who has never had a Corvette. Does GM really want to possibly lose my business to go after someone who is not a die hard Corvette fan?

I don't think that GM would assemble a focus group to evaluate new Corvette designs/features that is made up of people that wouldn't own a Corvette if it were given to them.

Guibo

A Smart car starts at $13k, while a Mercedes starts at $35k. That's a lot wider than the spread between a $49k Corvette and a $52k Cayman. There are actually quite a few Mercedes owners who also buy a Smart, and there are Porsche owners who just might give the Corvette a shot if it had more of the features they like. Some already have both, so give them more credit for being open-minded than to merely brush off the Corvette even "if it were given to them."

Jeff W

That's where you're wrong. Saw an interview w/the chief designer of the GT-R and he went over the weight of the car and overall downforce. His rational was that a F1 car has X amount of weight and Y amount of downforce for a total effective weight of Z. In order to get the GT-R to have a similar effective weight of Z, he had to make the car heavier.



As far as the OP, I would not consider a rear-mid engine or AWD Vette.

BlueOx

You may well be ONE target audience but you are not the ONLY target audience. And the people on CF are far from the only target audience. Companies target people who have never owned something all the time. That is how you grow sales.

Companies cannot be held hostage by existing owners with closed minds. Porsche and Ferrari now sell cars that their existing owners didn't ask for and think are bastardizations. I'm sure there are a number of Ford truck owners who would never buy a V6 and think that Ford should never make one and yet, the EcoBoost already accounts for over 40% of all F150 sales. Yet you can still order one with a V8.

How many existing Corvette owner focus group folks said "sure, get rid of hidden headlights"? GM did it anyway. How many said, "sure, I'm the target audience for that $115,000 Corvette that is heavier than a Z06"? GM did it anyway.

Why does Corvette bother to sell convertibles if so many CF owners track their cars and will only buy coupes?

You really think if a great AWD Corvette (option or model) was produced, GM would "lose your business"? I don't believe it and if they did, good riddance.

JoesC5

GM had no choice in the headlights if they wanted to continue selling Corvettes in Europe. New laws regarding drunks(AKA pedestrians) walking down the narrow streets in your typical Europen city, and getting hit by cars, all but outlawed pop up headlights. Get your facts straight. It had nothing to do with focus groups, etc.

You had better look at the demographics of the Corvette buyer. They are us old men with closed minds, and have been for years. GM produces a Corvette I don't like, and I decide to take my business elsewhere, they know it's difficult to win me back.

How many $125,000 ZR1's are sold vs the $62,500 C6? The ZR1 was not targeted at the Z06 owner, If it was, then they would have dropped the Z06 in 2009, as there would be no market for it. All the Z06 owners would be driving ZR1's. If the AWD compromised the performance/cost of a non AWD model, then it could affect my decision to purchase a non AWD model.

Better be carefull of who you say good riddance to. Us old farts are buying the bulk of the Corvettes being built, and if it wasn't for us, there wouldn't be enough business to keep the doors open to produce Corvettes for the youngsters. Instead of a Corvette, you would have to settle for a Camaro.

95% of the owners I know that drive new Z06's and ZR1's are old farts. 70% of the owners I know that drive new base C6's and GS's are almost old farts or old farts. The youngsters are the minority. Typically, when I see a young person driving a late model Corvette(C5/C6) it's one they purchased used(most likely originally owned by an old fart).

Guibo

But GM sees this as a problem and for good reason: If you keep building basically the same car but merely facelifted, in an attempt to maintain an existing demographic at the expense of sales gained elsewhere, your marketshare has nowhere to go but down. For the simple fact that old people retire from driving or die. (Not to be harsh, that's just the way it is.) If GM can maintain that core demographic, while at the same time expanding to new markets and scoring "conquest sales," then what is the problem? GM may personally lose a sale from you, but suppose they gain sales from 2 other people in the process (just an example, dont get carried away with that integer).

With respect to the comment that GM would put together a focus group that includes Porsche owners who would never consider a Corvette no matter how good it is, I agree. GM would be foolish to do that. But not all Porsche owners are so close-minded. There are people in between that extreme. When Dodge developed the new Viper, they formed a focus group from owners of Porsches, Lamborghinis, Corvettes, and others. These were not people who would dismiss the Viper out of hand. It would depend entirely on how the Dodge team added/refined content to the Viper.

Your point about the ZR1 vs Z06 proves the point: You can have different models with different features all adding sales to a particular lineup. They don't necessarily cannibalize each other, but both together can add profitability to the line.

JoesC5

I was around when the 1953 corvette was built, I saw a new 1953 Corvette in 1953. I was 11 years old. Over the years, when I would see a Corvette, it was generally driven by an older person(50+). It's been that way for 60 years now. I'm more likely to buy a new $100,000 Corvette then a youngster is. I'm 70 and driving a Z06. What are you driving?

Wow, so when Dodge was deciding on what a Viper should be they asked owners of Porsches, Lamborghinis, Corvettes, and others for their input. I wonder why they didn't ask excisting Viper owners? Could it be that there was no such thing as an excisting Viper owner.

Guibo

I doubt that's the way it's been for 60 years.
"Corvette buyers in 1970 were 93% male. The majority were single - 56%. The median age was 27."
http://www.vettefinders.com/index.cf...101Story/ID/18

Who said they didn't ask existing Viper owners? You've jumped to a faulty conclusion that should not have been deduced. They asked existing Viper owners as well as Porsche owners (whom you've written off as being so close-minded as to not even consider a Corvette no matter what it's like).

JoesC5

My bad on the Viper, I read your post as if you were taking about the new Viper that was debuted back in 1989, not a new, re-designed Viper later on.

My recollection is completely different on the age group. While I didn't live in an area where a lot of Corvettes were sold, I remember that most of them had older drivers. There were exceptions. My best friend had a 1958 Corvette back in 1959, than a new one in 1963 and then a new one in 1968. But, his dad had died and left him a sign company so he wasn't hurting for money. In 1973 a friend purchased a new 1973 Corvette, as soon as he finished med school. He wasn't hurting for money either. When I was 27, I had a well paying job(Mfg engineer) but a Corvette was out of the question.

I run with some 150 Corvette owners now(X2 as most are married). Not a single one is under 50 years old. Most are 60+. Some, like me, are 70+. Not a single one traded a Porsche, Lamborghini, Ford GT, Ferrari, in for their Corvette. In fact one of them, age ~65, is trading his C5 auto vert in on a 2012 GS Callaway SC606 with an auto transmission so his wife can drive it when we go on longer trips. He is not selling his 2009 ZR1, or his 1967 427/400 auto/air roadster, or his 1967 427/435 roadster. As you can see, he isn't interested in a Porsche, etc either, and he can very well afford just about any car made.

How many Porsche, Lamboghini, Ferrari, etc owners do you think live in the Springfield/branson, Mo area? Who should GM be listening to; the 150 I run with or the two dozen that drive the other half dozen brands?

Guibo

Thanks for you view of Corvette ownership. But just realize that that is not everyone. Your friend may never buy a Porsche, but there have been plenty of owners on both Corvette and Porsche forums who have either switched between the two, or have owned both brands concurrently.
As to your second point, I get the feeling that is a loaded question. GM could still listen to the views of those in Springfield, while also listening to those in metropolitan areas where imports are more popular. This is not an either/or issue. If GM wants to expand marketshare, increase profitability, etc, it would be suicidal to listen exclusively to the aging population that will eventually retire from driving altogether. This is precisely why they are concerned about the age creep issue and state it as a problem.
The question shouldn't be: Should GM be listening to the 150 that run with you at the expense of those two dozen other drivers? The question should be: Should GM be listening to you AND those two dozen other drivers in Springfield, AND those 10s/100s of thousands of other sports car owners in SF, NY, Miami, LA, Paris, London, Seattle, Berlin, Barcelona, Toronto, etc?

In any case, the Ozarks chapter of the PCA (under which Springfield falls), has 150 members. And those are just members. Not everyone who drives a Porsche is a member of the PCA.