View Poll Results: What will you do?
I will only buy an AWD C8 Corvette.
9
6.21%
I'll pay a few $K more for an AWD C8, accepting typical present-day compromises to get the benefits.
35
24.14%
If AWD is optional I'll buy the RWD C8; not worried about any compromises in an optional-AWD design.
19
13.10%
I will only buy a RWD C8 Corvette that is not compromised by an AWD option.
47
32.41%
Screw all that; make the next Corvette a mid-rear-engined car. (Pack light, honey.)
16
11.03%
Buy? New? Madness!
19
13.10%
Voters: 145. You may not vote on this poll
AWD Corvette: make your choice.
07-26-2012, 11:36 AM
#1
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
AWD Corvette: make your choice.
Let's say C7 is only a 5-6 year run, and so Tadge & co need to shortlist the technologies and designs to consider for C8 in the next eight months. They need to know what you're going to do when the time comes. What will you do?
07-26-2012, 11:46 AM
#2
Team Owner
I voted for the mid-engined C8 though I know it's still highly unlikely to ever happen...but would consider an AWD Corvette if it didn't add an exorbitant amount of weight (less than 75 pounds) or cost (less then $1k) to what a typical RWD C8 might run, otherwise I don't want it.
07-26-2012, 12:19 PM
#4
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
As if discussion of AWD to date has been restricted to what we oughta get during C7's reign.
GM doesn't have AWD engineering that fits Corvette. (Adapting Corvette to one of their existing systems means a seriously-compromised design.) They already have the AWD they need for other platforms, so it's an investment whose cost must be borne by Corvette alone. Most tech considered for Corvette has the potential to pay dividends in GM's volume business -- truck powerplants, anything that increases chassis strength or reduces mass... not so for Corvette AWD. (Not ICE mechanical AWD anyway; electric hybrid a la NSX is another matter.) Funds aren't unlimited, so what other improvements don't happen so that Corvette can be AWD? What gets cut? That's a whole different kind of compromise. The counter-argument of course is that Corvette won't be viable in the market without AWD, but I don't buy it, not for the volume model, and ZR-1 shouldn't be wagging Corvette's tail.
GM doesn't have AWD engineering that fits Corvette. (Adapting Corvette to one of their existing systems means a seriously-compromised design.) They already have the AWD they need for other platforms, so it's an investment whose cost must be borne by Corvette alone. Most tech considered for Corvette has the potential to pay dividends in GM's volume business -- truck powerplants, anything that increases chassis strength or reduces mass... not so for Corvette AWD. (Not ICE mechanical AWD anyway; electric hybrid a la NSX is another matter.) Funds aren't unlimited, so what other improvements don't happen so that Corvette can be AWD? What gets cut? That's a whole different kind of compromise. The counter-argument of course is that Corvette won't be viable in the market without AWD, but I don't buy it, not for the volume model, and ZR-1 shouldn't be wagging Corvette's tail.
07-26-2012, 12:52 PM
#6
As if discussion of AWD to date has been restricted to what we oughta get during C7's reign.
GM doesn't have AWD engineering that fits Corvette. (Adapting Corvette to one of their existing systems means a seriously-compromised design.) They already have the AWD they need for other platforms, so it's an investment whose cost must be borne by Corvette alone. Most tech considered for Corvette has the potential to pay dividends in GM's volume business -- truck powerplants, anything that increases chassis strength or reduces mass... not so for Corvette AWD. (Not ICE mechanical AWD anyway; electric hybrid a la NSX is another matter.) Funds aren't unlimited, so what other improvements don't happen so that Corvette can be AWD? What gets cut? That's a whole different kind of compromise. The counter-argument of course is that Corvette won't be viable in the market without AWD, but I don't buy it, not for the volume model, and ZR-1 shouldn't be wagging Corvette's tail.
GM doesn't have AWD engineering that fits Corvette. (Adapting Corvette to one of their existing systems means a seriously-compromised design.) They already have the AWD they need for other platforms, so it's an investment whose cost must be borne by Corvette alone. Most tech considered for Corvette has the potential to pay dividends in GM's volume business -- truck powerplants, anything that increases chassis strength or reduces mass... not so for Corvette AWD. (Not ICE mechanical AWD anyway; electric hybrid a la NSX is another matter.) Funds aren't unlimited, so what other improvements don't happen so that Corvette can be AWD? What gets cut? That's a whole different kind of compromise. The counter-argument of course is that Corvette won't be viable in the market without AWD, but I don't buy it, not for the volume model, and ZR-1 shouldn't be wagging Corvette's tail.
I admit that the whole AWD discussion is full of assumptions and I make a lot of them but you make more assumptions than even I do in this quote. The biggest one is that the C7 generation will NOT have an AWD model or option. You do not know that.
-You DO NOT know that GM doesn't have AWD engineering to fit Corvette.
-You are TOTALLY WRONG about the idea that AWD for Corvette couldn't pay dividends to other volume business. You telling me that lighter, more high-performance AWD wouldn't benefit a large number of GM vehicles??
-Another huge assumption that you make is about something being cut or compromised just because of an AWD system. How about compromises from the Gen V motor? EVERY car has compromises of some kind. What matters is which compromises will a potential buyer look past for the benefits they want.
-Nobody anywhere on this forum has said that Corvette will not be viable w/o AWD. The real idea that you refuse to acknowledge is that Corvette needs to expand it's global target audiences for better sales now and into the future and that AWD is only one potential tool.
Last edited by BlueOx; 07-26-2012 at 01:03 PM.
07-26-2012, 12:54 PM
#7
Race Director
I voted for the mid-engined C8 though I know it's still highly unlikely to ever happen...but would consider an AWD Corvette if it didn't add an exorbitant amount of weight (less than 75 pounds) or cost (less then $1k) to what a typical RWD C8 might run, otherwise I don't want it.
I agree that your cost and weight parameters would be desirable from the customer perspective, but am not sure they are viable in actuality.
Last edited by tuxnharley; 07-26-2012 at 01:02 PM. Reason: stupidity..........
07-26-2012, 12:59 PM
#8
Race Director
07-26-2012, 01:17 PM
#9
Yeah ok...my point is it is ridiculous to even be talking about a C8 when it is still at least 7 years (or more) before we could even buy a C8. A few here want to just write off the C7 before they really know anything about it for sure.
Last edited by BlueOx; 07-26-2012 at 01:21 PM.
07-26-2012, 01:29 PM
#10
Race Director
07-26-2012, 01:33 PM
#11
Le Mans Master
Thread Starter
C6 Discussion had "purely C7" threads before C7 Discussion existed. Get over it.
AWD in C7 -- you're quite the optimist. Considering what we've been told of C7's development and what we can see in the mule and spy photos, I'm calling it unlikely. Anyone else who disagrees is free to chime in.
AWD engineering to fit Corvette -- not in production. Maybe the new ATS; we might know better when the press gets to borrow one.
Radical AWD technology could pay dividends. I know you're enamored of the Ferrari system. Maybe carbon-fiber shafts? Okay, sure. But otherwise I don't see the payoff, in that GM already has AWD in the volume models where it's beneficial. They can't donate to Corvette's much higher power requirements or its packaging, so you're speculating a lot for technology transfer.
It's not a huge assumption that there's a limited development budget. Of course money spent on Gen V can't be spent elsewhere either, but the payoff for Gen V is more immediate and widespread -- Corvette and trucks get power and efficiency.
"-Nobody anywhere on this forum has said that Corvette will not be viable w/o AWD." I'll not bother to wade through the thousands of AWD posts to find the clear implications and actual statements of prognosticated doom. Believe what you like. I suppose if every AWD thread going forward refrains from this prognostication you may have a point.
I fully acknowledge that AWD is only one potential tool to expand Corvette's market.
I'd hate to see Corvette invest in a conventional AWD system and then have the trick Porsche and NSX show that their approach works better. That would suck.
AWD in C7 -- you're quite the optimist. Considering what we've been told of C7's development and what we can see in the mule and spy photos, I'm calling it unlikely. Anyone else who disagrees is free to chime in.
AWD engineering to fit Corvette -- not in production. Maybe the new ATS; we might know better when the press gets to borrow one.
Radical AWD technology could pay dividends. I know you're enamored of the Ferrari system. Maybe carbon-fiber shafts? Okay, sure. But otherwise I don't see the payoff, in that GM already has AWD in the volume models where it's beneficial. They can't donate to Corvette's much higher power requirements or its packaging, so you're speculating a lot for technology transfer.
It's not a huge assumption that there's a limited development budget. Of course money spent on Gen V can't be spent elsewhere either, but the payoff for Gen V is more immediate and widespread -- Corvette and trucks get power and efficiency.
"-Nobody anywhere on this forum has said that Corvette will not be viable w/o AWD." I'll not bother to wade through the thousands of AWD posts to find the clear implications and actual statements of prognosticated doom. Believe what you like. I suppose if every AWD thread going forward refrains from this prognostication you may have a point.
I fully acknowledge that AWD is only one potential tool to expand Corvette's market.
I'd hate to see Corvette invest in a conventional AWD system and then have the trick Porsche and NSX show that their approach works better. That would suck.
07-26-2012, 02:28 PM
#12
C6 Discussion had "purely C7" threads before C7 Discussion existed. Get over it.
AWD in C7 -- you're quite the optimist. Considering what we've been told of C7's development and what we can see in the mule and spy photos, I'm calling it unlikely. Anyone else who disagrees is free to chime in.
AWD engineering to fit Corvette -- not in production. Maybe the new ATS; we might know better when the press gets to borrow one.
Radical AWD technology could pay dividends. I know you're enamored of the Ferrari system. Maybe carbon-fiber shafts? Okay, sure. But otherwise I don't see the payoff, in that GM already has AWD in the volume models where it's beneficial. They can't donate to Corvette's much higher power requirements or its packaging, so you're speculating a lot for technology transfer.
It's not a huge assumption that there's a limited development budget. Of course money spent on Gen V can't be spent elsewhere either, but the payoff for Gen V is more immediate and widespread -- Corvette and trucks get power and efficiency.
"-Nobody anywhere on this forum has said that Corvette will not be viable w/o AWD." I'll not bother to wade through the thousands of AWD posts to find the clear implications and actual statements of prognosticated doom. Believe what you like. I suppose if every AWD thread going forward refrains from this prognostication you may have a point.
I fully acknowledge that AWD is only one potential tool to expand Corvette's market.
I'd hate to see Corvette invest in a conventional AWD system and then have the trick Porsche and NSX show that their approach works better. That would suck.
AWD in C7 -- you're quite the optimist. Considering what we've been told of C7's development and what we can see in the mule and spy photos, I'm calling it unlikely. Anyone else who disagrees is free to chime in.
AWD engineering to fit Corvette -- not in production. Maybe the new ATS; we might know better when the press gets to borrow one.
Radical AWD technology could pay dividends. I know you're enamored of the Ferrari system. Maybe carbon-fiber shafts? Okay, sure. But otherwise I don't see the payoff, in that GM already has AWD in the volume models where it's beneficial. They can't donate to Corvette's much higher power requirements or its packaging, so you're speculating a lot for technology transfer.
It's not a huge assumption that there's a limited development budget. Of course money spent on Gen V can't be spent elsewhere either, but the payoff for Gen V is more immediate and widespread -- Corvette and trucks get power and efficiency.
"-Nobody anywhere on this forum has said that Corvette will not be viable w/o AWD." I'll not bother to wade through the thousands of AWD posts to find the clear implications and actual statements of prognosticated doom. Believe what you like. I suppose if every AWD thread going forward refrains from this prognostication you may have a point.
I fully acknowledge that AWD is only one potential tool to expand Corvette's market.
I'd hate to see Corvette invest in a conventional AWD system and then have the trick Porsche and NSX show that their approach works better. That would suck.
You said "GM doesn't have AWD engineering that fits Corvette". You didn't say "in production". Obviously if it was for the C7, we wouldn't expect to see it in production yet.
I believe the ATS is using the same Haldex AWD system that the XTS will be using.
It is a safe assumption that the budget is limited as all budgets by nature are limited or it would just be MONEY! Payoff could be in lighter/stronger AWD which will help increase fuel efficiency in almost any car/suv/crossover GM might think of.
Are you saying the potential Corvette AWD system has higher power requirements than a 12 cyl. 650+hp Ferrari that weighs a lot more? The FF has a very different system (way beyond carbon fiber shafts) that uses a different strategy.
GM has licensed MSRC to Ferrari and maybe Ferrari returns the favor...OK, probably not. They'd want it in the Viper first!
Well, the 'doom' (if anyone actually said that wasn't kidding) is if Corvette doesn't start growing better sales. I've always said AWD would be a great model/option that could bring new audiences into the Corvette sales picture.
So are you more worried the Vette might not have AWD at all or that the system they come up with might be outclassed by Porsche or the NSX?
07-26-2012, 03:34 PM
#13
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2000
Location: North Dallas 40 TX
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If you don't like the poll; create your own.
There are plenty other threads to discuss it, and it has been done ad nauseum.
This is a put up your money poll.
It is not required to comment to vote.
There are plenty other threads to discuss it, and it has been done ad nauseum.
This is a put up your money poll.
It is not required to comment to vote.
07-26-2012, 05:35 PM
#14
Living in Quebec Canada land of snow, I would not even consider an AWD. You can't even use it in the snow for the simple reason the car sits too low.
It will handle better in the wet, but the turning radius will diminish and maintenance costs will increase.
Not to mention the added weight which also will unbalance the car from its near 50/50 weight bias.
Only if it was designed up from a fresh new sheet (ALL-NEW chassis/body) design it would be implemented as an option.
It will handle better in the wet, but the turning radius will diminish and maintenance costs will increase.
Not to mention the added weight which also will unbalance the car from its near 50/50 weight bias.
Only if it was designed up from a fresh new sheet (ALL-NEW chassis/body) design it would be implemented as an option.
07-26-2012, 06:20 PM
#15
The Consigliere
Member Since: May 2006
Location: 2023 Z06 & 2010 ZR1
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RWD is my first choice (and I voted accordingly)
Rear/mid engine is second choice.
AWD would be way, way down my list of wants on the Corvette.
Rear/mid engine is second choice.
AWD would be way, way down my list of wants on the Corvette.
07-26-2012, 07:01 PM
#16
Team Owner
FR or bust. I will not accept the alternatives.
And there will be no AWD C7s. Unlesz you build it yourself.
And there will be no AWD C7s. Unlesz you build it yourself.
07-26-2012, 11:51 PM
#17
Team Owner
I don't think my parameters can be met either and THAT'S why I love the Corvette's current front-mid engine/RWD layout so much...light, cheap (relatively speaking) and FAST. 
07-27-2012, 02:02 AM
#18
Melting Slicks
I remember reading that in the early 60's Enzo was very, very slow to change his F1 cars to a rear engine configuration and this hurt the company. My point is that Ferrari now stands for everything cool..not just front engine - rear drive, but anything goes to make it go. BlueOx is right, Corvette is not about any particular configuration but about speed , beauty, and whatever it takes to achieve those goals.
07-27-2012, 02:36 AM
#19
Team Owner
I remember reading that in the early 60's Enzo was very, very slow to change his F1 cars to a rear engine configuration and this hurt the company. My point is that Ferrari now stands for everything cool..not just front engine - rear drive, but anything goes to make it go. BlueOx is right, Corvette is not about any particular configuration but about speed , beauty, and whatever it takes to achieve those goals.
But I (and many others) just DON'T want to see the base Corvette become a 3800+ pound $100k car like a certain Nissan is.Although I must admit, the idea of Nissan GTR performance results out of a base ($52k) Corvette would certainly be acceptable (but also impossible).
07-27-2012, 08:22 AM
#20
Good points and I agree with most of it. But I (and many others) just DON'T want to see the base Corvette become a 3800+ pound $100k car like a certain Nissan is.
Although I must admit, the idea of Nissan GTR performance results out of a base ($52k) Corvette would certainly be acceptable (but also impossible).
But I (and many others) just DON'T want to see the base Corvette become a 3800+ pound $100k car like a certain Nissan is.Although I must admit, the idea of Nissan GTR performance results out of a base ($52k) Corvette would certainly be acceptable (but also impossible).