Begining of the End of the Corvette....
08-23-2012, 05:07 PM
#41
Drifting
I think you're misinterpreting the facts you yourself are using personally.
You say they cut these brands such as Pontiac, etc. They cut them because the income just wasn't there. Ws6 ls1's are one of the most bad *** looking cars ever produced. But obviously sales of firebird/camaro were poor enough to drop them and cut their losses. The gm fanbois never bought a mustang, and I'm sure a small percent converted. But considering an ls1 generally can out run an 05-09 gt, people switched for the retro looks, not because it was a step up for a cheap performance car. Pontiac as a whole wasn't very successful its last few years. Not as an enthusiast, but as a businessman, what would you do? Take loss after loss and hope for the best? Not very profitable. Oldsmobile and Saturn were nothing more then 2 more versions of cars Chevy or Pontiac made which is horrible business sense. They now have their commuter cars('Chevy), their upscale cars(Buick. which is HUGE in China so they were the ones to keep), and your luxury brand Cadillac, which some models share very little with the same size Chevy model. Hummer could have potentially lost them tons of money in the face of "going green" opposition, plus anyone with half a brain knew how neutered the h3 was at that point. An h4 probably would have just been a trailblazer with a v6 and some fake armor clading...
Going global is the same logical move. But its not negative like you think, in fact its positive. If the number of car chassis is cut down from say, 20 to 12 modular ones, that's money saved on each car. IF gm does the morally right thing(and possibly financially long run) then that extra income could result in efforts elsewhere, such as improved interiors across the board, or possibly keeping the corvette at its current price since they wouldn't need its former level of profit. Ford is doing it with the focus right now. This new one is pretty much a different chassis then the old one, yet the one we have now has been on sale in Europe for a couple of years. The American focus was... meant for Americans. As a result, it wasn't as good a total package. Global platforms arn't evil. You'd be surprised what goodies Europe and Japan get but us Americans get jipped on. Hopefully that starts to end.
Oh and as much as you may not be thrilled with what America has mixed up and become, I'm sure people in 1880 thought the same thing. Not only that, but as much as you say America is loosing its identity absorbing other cultures into itself, realize we have hugely rubbed off on the rest of the world. I spoke more English when I went to Germany with my school then I did German. Heck wasn't there an Iraqie idol shortly after the we went to war?
You say they cut these brands such as Pontiac, etc. They cut them because the income just wasn't there. Ws6 ls1's are one of the most bad *** looking cars ever produced. But obviously sales of firebird/camaro were poor enough to drop them and cut their losses. The gm fanbois never bought a mustang, and I'm sure a small percent converted. But considering an ls1 generally can out run an 05-09 gt, people switched for the retro looks, not because it was a step up for a cheap performance car. Pontiac as a whole wasn't very successful its last few years. Not as an enthusiast, but as a businessman, what would you do? Take loss after loss and hope for the best? Not very profitable. Oldsmobile and Saturn were nothing more then 2 more versions of cars Chevy or Pontiac made which is horrible business sense. They now have their commuter cars('Chevy), their upscale cars(Buick. which is HUGE in China so they were the ones to keep), and your luxury brand Cadillac, which some models share very little with the same size Chevy model. Hummer could have potentially lost them tons of money in the face of "going green" opposition, plus anyone with half a brain knew how neutered the h3 was at that point. An h4 probably would have just been a trailblazer with a v6 and some fake armor clading...
Going global is the same logical move. But its not negative like you think, in fact its positive. If the number of car chassis is cut down from say, 20 to 12 modular ones, that's money saved on each car. IF gm does the morally right thing(and possibly financially long run) then that extra income could result in efforts elsewhere, such as improved interiors across the board, or possibly keeping the corvette at its current price since they wouldn't need its former level of profit. Ford is doing it with the focus right now. This new one is pretty much a different chassis then the old one, yet the one we have now has been on sale in Europe for a couple of years. The American focus was... meant for Americans. As a result, it wasn't as good a total package. Global platforms arn't evil. You'd be surprised what goodies Europe and Japan get but us Americans get jipped on. Hopefully that starts to end.
Oh and as much as you may not be thrilled with what America has mixed up and become, I'm sure people in 1880 thought the same thing. Not only that, but as much as you say America is loosing its identity absorbing other cultures into itself, realize we have hugely rubbed off on the rest of the world. I spoke more English when I went to Germany with my school then I did German. Heck wasn't there an Iraqie idol shortly after the we went to war?
08-23-2012, 05:33 PM
#42
Instructor
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The Corvette is not going anywhere. Even if it does it would be quickly bought...it's brand value is too high to let it cease in existence.
To be honest with you I could care less about pitting domestic vs. imports as some here do. I appreciate a good car when I see one whether it's American or foreign. And let's not forget a lot of foreign manufacturers are making cars here in the USA...think BMW, Nissan, Hyundai, etc.
But I am liking what GM is doing lately especially with Cadillac. I think the new ATS is a very nice addition. The current CTS is nice although the interior quality is lacking, but I'm sure the new model coming out will address that. Can't wait for this new flagship rumored to come out and the new El Dorado concept (forgot the name) is a stunner. And I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the new Escallade will look like (although I like the Range Rover much better).
With a healthier GM, I think the Corvette will thrive and it would not all be about the bottom line with it. It would be more about the halo effect and brand image IMO. Look at cars like the Audi R8, Viper, etc. they are not there for volume sales they are there for the image.
The Corvette (and all $50K-$120K cars are) is aimed at to upper middle class to uppper class and some uber upper class targets pretty much like Porsche is and GM should market it accordingly.
To be honest with you I could care less about pitting domestic vs. imports as some here do. I appreciate a good car when I see one whether it's American or foreign. And let's not forget a lot of foreign manufacturers are making cars here in the USA...think BMW, Nissan, Hyundai, etc.
But I am liking what GM is doing lately especially with Cadillac. I think the new ATS is a very nice addition. The current CTS is nice although the interior quality is lacking, but I'm sure the new model coming out will address that. Can't wait for this new flagship rumored to come out and the new El Dorado concept (forgot the name) is a stunner. And I'm actually looking forward to seeing what the new Escallade will look like (although I like the Range Rover much better).
With a healthier GM, I think the Corvette will thrive and it would not all be about the bottom line with it. It would be more about the halo effect and brand image IMO. Look at cars like the Audi R8, Viper, etc. they are not there for volume sales they are there for the image.
The Corvette (and all $50K-$120K cars are) is aimed at to upper middle class to uppper class and some uber upper class targets pretty much like Porsche is and GM should market it accordingly.
08-23-2012, 09:03 PM
#43
Le Mans Master
Rolex Submariner Watch, Cost in 1980 was $1800, production that year was approximatley 25 thousand.
Rolex Submariner Watch, Cost in 2011 is average is about $5K production for 2011, less then 10 thousand worldwide.
Vintage Sumbariner Watch from 1980, resale value about $18k in good condition.
Difference, Rolex changed the technology of assembling the watch and much of the interals are not metal but high grade nylon, vintage watches were still hand assembled and all metal.
Rolex adjusted to the changing times if you add inflation you will find the watch price in proportion is about the same price as 1980 but using less expensive labor and pieces to assemble
Rolex Submariner Watch, Cost in 2011 is average is about $5K production for 2011, less then 10 thousand worldwide.
Vintage Sumbariner Watch from 1980, resale value about $18k in good condition.
Difference, Rolex changed the technology of assembling the watch and much of the interals are not metal but high grade nylon, vintage watches were still hand assembled and all metal.
Rolex adjusted to the changing times if you add inflation you will find the watch price in proportion is about the same price as 1980 but using less expensive labor and pieces to assemble
A stainless steel Rolex Sub Date was $950 in 1980 and its modern equivalent, a 116610, is $8550. The Submariner costs over three times what it did in 1980 in inflation-adjusted dollars.
I don't know where you got those production statistics. Rolex famously does not release them. However, we do know that the company has greatly expanded its workforce and facilities so all indications are that production has increased dramatically, not the other way around.
Which parts in a Rolex 3135 movement do you believe are "high-grade nylon?" Those big red-colored gears are just Teflon-coated.
08-23-2012, 09:09 PM
#44
Corvette will always survive....period.
Next!!
Next!!
08-23-2012, 09:23 PM
#45
I live in the rust belt: Ohio.
Just acquired my Corvette, whose sticker price was 100% of my annual income, but I could still afford to get it and still save a chunk of my salary in investment funds.
I'm not the only one who is doing this type of purchasing and having this purchasing power.
Just go into the C6 Corvette Forum here and see how many people are buying spanking new Vettes everyday.
The economy is still shaky but people are still buying expensive cars.
Just acquired my Corvette, whose sticker price was 100% of my annual income, but I could still afford to get it and still save a chunk of my salary in investment funds.
I'm not the only one who is doing this type of purchasing and having this purchasing power.
Just go into the C6 Corvette Forum here and see how many people are buying spanking new Vettes everyday.
The economy is still shaky but people are still buying expensive cars.
08-23-2012, 09:24 PM
#46
Burning Brakes
You show no location in your profile, but go tell that to the people in the rust belt up in northern Michigan, Ohio, Penn. etc. Go tell that to the much of the midwest.
If as you state plenty of new high end cars, then you are in a prosperious part of the US which is quickly becoming a minority. You are in a high tech area most likely, but the manufacturing areas of this nation is suffering and now so are the farmers. Consider yourself, as I do me, fortuate enough to live in a prosperious area and have the skills of a high tech job.
Secondly, you than must agree with me, as this next generation coming onboard are the ones who are going for the high end luxury sport cars, not the two seated ones... Taking your own words, how many C6 Corvettes with dealer plates do you see opposed to what you stated for the BMW and MBs? I bet three of four to one Corvette.
Other parts of this nation are in a serious dilemma. A new Corvette is well beyond their reach, and do you think it will get better?
If as you state plenty of new high end cars, then you are in a prosperious part of the US which is quickly becoming a minority. You are in a high tech area most likely, but the manufacturing areas of this nation is suffering and now so are the farmers. Consider yourself, as I do me, fortuate enough to live in a prosperious area and have the skills of a high tech job.
Secondly, you than must agree with me, as this next generation coming onboard are the ones who are going for the high end luxury sport cars, not the two seated ones... Taking your own words, how many C6 Corvettes with dealer plates do you see opposed to what you stated for the BMW and MBs? I bet three of four to one Corvette.
Other parts of this nation are in a serious dilemma. A new Corvette is well beyond their reach, and do you think it will get better?
I live in the rust belt: Ohio.
Just acquired my Corvette, whose sticker price was 100% of my annual income, but I could still afford to get it and still save a chunk of my salary in investment funds.
I'm not the only one who is doing this type of purchasing and having this purchasing power.
Just go into the C6 Corvette Forum here and see how many people are buying spanking new Vettes everyday.
The economy is still shaky but people are still buying expensive cars.
08-23-2012, 09:49 PM
#47
Race Director
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I don't think those cars at the Pebble are driven that much, maybe just to shows or into the trailers. Personally, my friends and I drive the chit out of our vettes at the track. That is the purpose for which they are made, that is the purpose at which they excel. Why don't you compare the vette to the mars rover? About the same correlation the way I see it.
08-23-2012, 11:27 PM
#48
Team Owner
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Corvette is a unique brand and has a healthy consumer base. As long as the base is there, the car will be produced. I am sure the initial R&D cost plays a role in the price of admission to play, and that cost is in proportion to what customer taste demands. However, once the initial investment is recouped, then the profit margin on the product begins to grow. The longer the run on a successful high demand model can be maintained, the more profitable that model becomes. Eventually that condition will end and that is what the last few years trend has been on the C6 model.
It is time to generate new excitement and I give GM credit for recognizing that, even thought they stretched it a little due to expectations they instigated. Automotive manufacturers are not in the business to just break even and that also applies to keeping a halo car alive. So if the old standard is no longer delivering, a new standard will be created to take its place and that is the real threat for the Corvette. If the new model does not fill those shoes and create the much needed excitement to allow the manufacturer to be profitable, then a Chinese Corvette may just be in the cards.
It is time to generate new excitement and I give GM credit for recognizing that, even thought they stretched it a little due to expectations they instigated. Automotive manufacturers are not in the business to just break even and that also applies to keeping a halo car alive. So if the old standard is no longer delivering, a new standard will be created to take its place and that is the real threat for the Corvette. If the new model does not fill those shoes and create the much needed excitement to allow the manufacturer to be profitable, then a Chinese Corvette may just be in the cards.
08-23-2012, 11:41 PM
#49
VETERAN
Let's all think Positive and then make it happen!!!!
IMO:
The Corvette will be around a long time after most of us are dead and in Heaven. :-)
Yesterday I was in Annapolis talking to a friend of mine that sales Porsches @ Annapolis Porsche. He shared with me that he is selling more Porsches now than any time over the past five years. He has been selling Porsches for 27 years.
We then went across the street to the Aston Martin Dealership. Another friend there mentioned that sales are up more now than over the past three years. So granted, this area is somewhat insulated from many of the problems that are rampant throughout the nation, but I was shocked to hear this news. I was happy to hear this news too.
I kept thinking about the possibilities for the C7 & C8.
There will always be enough interest to keep the Corvette model going.
GM just needs to improve the product and build a reliable car. Every new Vette that I have purchased has been better than the out-going Corvette. Technology is on our side for this purpose. I don't believe the Corvette will move to hybrid or electric either. There is still huge technology development ahead for gasoline combustion engines. The U.S Government is worried about how to store/trash future hybrid engines & electric batteries. There isn't a good plan for the 'clean-up' or removal or destruction of the old batteries. Much like the 40's & 50's when we didn't know what to do with old tires. Even with the CAFE future rules, the Corvette will survive this threat and the bad economy.
Better to think positive and if you don't like what the Government is doing, then make sure that you vote and get your friends to vote to make a difference. I do not plan to ever purchase a Prius or anything like that. I would rather ride a bicycle or Harley. Give me the choice of a well made Sports Car. That is the American way. Stand up and make America strong as a team of Americans that love the Corvette and don't accept anything less. As a great friend of mine, a USMC Colonel says when we play golf: "just hit the damn ball and don't be a Pu_ _ _.
Cheers, stop thinking negative, that is the European thought process.
Be Proud and Be the hardest working Americans Ever!!!!!!!!!
VR,
Fuze
The Corvette will be around a long time after most of us are dead and in Heaven. :-)
Yesterday I was in Annapolis talking to a friend of mine that sales Porsches @ Annapolis Porsche. He shared with me that he is selling more Porsches now than any time over the past five years. He has been selling Porsches for 27 years.
We then went across the street to the Aston Martin Dealership. Another friend there mentioned that sales are up more now than over the past three years. So granted, this area is somewhat insulated from many of the problems that are rampant throughout the nation, but I was shocked to hear this news. I was happy to hear this news too.
I kept thinking about the possibilities for the C7 & C8.
There will always be enough interest to keep the Corvette model going.
GM just needs to improve the product and build a reliable car. Every new Vette that I have purchased has been better than the out-going Corvette. Technology is on our side for this purpose. I don't believe the Corvette will move to hybrid or electric either. There is still huge technology development ahead for gasoline combustion engines. The U.S Government is worried about how to store/trash future hybrid engines & electric batteries. There isn't a good plan for the 'clean-up' or removal or destruction of the old batteries. Much like the 40's & 50's when we didn't know what to do with old tires. Even with the CAFE future rules, the Corvette will survive this threat and the bad economy.
Better to think positive and if you don't like what the Government is doing, then make sure that you vote and get your friends to vote to make a difference. I do not plan to ever purchase a Prius or anything like that. I would rather ride a bicycle or Harley. Give me the choice of a well made Sports Car. That is the American way. Stand up and make America strong as a team of Americans that love the Corvette and don't accept anything less. As a great friend of mine, a USMC Colonel says when we play golf: "just hit the damn ball and don't be a Pu_ _ _.
Cheers, stop thinking negative, that is the European thought process.
Be Proud and Be the hardest working Americans Ever!!!!!!!!!
VR,
Fuze
08-24-2012, 04:43 AM
#50
Team Owner
08-24-2012, 07:38 AM
#51
Burning Brakes
was looking around last night and saw leftover '12 base coupes in the mid-$40s.
GSs were getting $6-7 shaved off the prices that were averaging in the mid-$60s.
GSs were getting $6-7 shaved off the prices that were averaging in the mid-$60s.
08-24-2012, 08:11 AM
#52
IMO:
The Corvette will be around a long time after most of us are dead and in Heaven. :-)
Yesterday I was in Annapolis talking to a friend of mine that sales Porsches @ Annapolis Porsche. He shared with me that he is selling more Porsches now than any time over the past five years. He has been selling Porsches for 27 years.
We then went across the street to the Aston Martin Dealership. Another friend there mentioned that sales are up more now than over the past three years. So granted, this area is somewhat insulated from many of the problems that are rampant throughout the nation, but I was shocked to hear this news. I was happy to hear this news too.
I kept thinking about the possibilities for the C7 & C8.
The Corvette will be around a long time after most of us are dead and in Heaven. :-)
Yesterday I was in Annapolis talking to a friend of mine that sales Porsches @ Annapolis Porsche. He shared with me that he is selling more Porsches now than any time over the past five years. He has been selling Porsches for 27 years.
We then went across the street to the Aston Martin Dealership. Another friend there mentioned that sales are up more now than over the past three years. So granted, this area is somewhat insulated from many of the problems that are rampant throughout the nation, but I was shocked to hear this news. I was happy to hear this news too.
I kept thinking about the possibilities for the C7 & C8.
Last edited by BlueOx; 08-24-2012 at 08:14 AM.
08-24-2012, 08:40 AM
#53
Burning Brakes
08-24-2012, 08:58 AM
#54
On the one hand the OP and others are saying the Corvette cannot contend with the Pebble Beach crowd. I would argue that it is very American/Patriotic to believe that our 50k coupe or even our 120k ZR1 can hold its own with a concourse crowd. We are talking about cars here whose model entry price is lucky to be as low as our halo derivative the zr1. I mean you can't get a base 911 with a few no frill options for less than 90k and that's not even a true performance car. If you want to hang with a ZR1 you are looking at a 150-170k depending on option Turbo. BMW is kind of the same boat, they sell 100-120k M cars (obviously not m3) and I would argue that they still aren't the performance of a ZR1. Nevertheless, most vette people want our cars to have most of the plush niceties of the AMG, M and P-car crowd; which visa via would make the Vette a Pebble Beach worthy car.
On the other hand, we seem obsessed with saying that the Vette is becoming over priced. I look around at these other dealers who sell performance/luxury cars and man it makes me feel like a pauper. Go to Porsche, look at all the folks buying 150k Panamera Turbo and GTS cars, or the guys buying 911 Turbos and Turbo S's left and right. This is in an area where the same owner has a Chevy dealer that is lucky to sell 15-20 Vettes a year. So why can't we have all the nice stuff that luxury imports do, because we (as a buying market) think the Vette is overpriced as it is, now add 20k for interior refinement and now I think you've just killed the brand due to lower sales.
I guess in a nutshell you can't have your cake and eat it too. A Vette is a sports car and at a 49k entry price (around 39-41k if you do your homework) it is a heck of a good deal. It's not a concourse car, it was never intended to be. It is a Chevrolet. So long as it still has the little bow tie buried in the logo and as long as long as you have to trip over Sonic and Cruise buyers to make your way into the dealer, it will always have elements of its brand.
The market dictates that 40-60k is the asking price for a 430hp Vette and a 911 is 90-110k. We all know that the performance is equal, but yet we all want to know why our car doesn't have the interior luxury and the overall refinement: give GM another 50k of your money and I'm sure they can put a very nice interior in it for you. Don't expect them to do it for free, you already said they are hurting for money, so what makes you think they can use $50 trim pieces instead of $40 ones and still charge the same price? They can't.
My C7 prediction: the cars msrp will be roughly the same as what you see now. Instead of the $40 parts theyll upgrade to the $45 parts (notice not quite the nice ones). Where GM will make their money is by doing the same cost structure as all of the new platform cars. Msrp versus invoice will be about $1200-$1500 instead of the $8000-9000 we and dealers now enjoy. See, now GM will have an extra 9-10k to spend on building a quality automobile. Plus, the beauty of that all is that the general public and the auto media will be thinking wow, GM made all these improvements and it's the same price as last years car. Only very few of us will be crying over not seeing the 10-11k forum dealer deals. Just my $.02.
08-24-2012, 09:28 AM
#55
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If GM drops Corvette it may suck in the short term but I would bet the car comes back with a vengeance much like the SRT Viper perhaps under different circumstances.
It will never truly die at least within the next 15 years or so however many of us never thought we would see the day we can't buy ourselves a Hummer.
It doesn't have alot of competition domestically in the sports car segment so I hope its safe and by the end of the C7 generation we see an economic upshift that helps sell cars.
If the Corvette is doomed its because of a mix of General Motors incompetence as a company and the economy. It's not a car that should be forced to sell as much as a Cobalt to justify its existence. It's a RWD Summer car not a 750LI
It will never truly die at least within the next 15 years or so however many of us never thought we would see the day we can't buy ourselves a Hummer.
It doesn't have alot of competition domestically in the sports car segment so I hope its safe and by the end of the C7 generation we see an economic upshift that helps sell cars.
If the Corvette is doomed its because of a mix of General Motors incompetence as a company and the economy. It's not a car that should be forced to sell as much as a Cobalt to justify its existence. It's a RWD Summer car not a 750LI
09-04-2012, 01:43 PM
#57
Team Owner
The first clue that the "end is near" will be the first car magazine cover showing a Mustang and Corvette (C7) with the words - Mustang dethrones the vette
GM can do one of two things and most likely the vette's fate has already been decided
1. Throw the kitchen sink at the first year vette with a base HP of say 600+ and wipe the smirks off all challengers, you know dam the torpedoes full steam ahead or
2. Release the vette with a smaller and more environmentally friendly V8 and wait for the first GT500 kill story to be published.
Why do I have a sick feeling in my stomach?????
Oh and the name Corvette will be around forever, why wouldn't it it has cache, but will it be a low slung 2 seat sports car?
GM can do one of two things and most likely the vette's fate has already been decided
1. Throw the kitchen sink at the first year vette with a base HP of say 600+ and wipe the smirks off all challengers, you know dam the torpedoes full steam ahead or
2. Release the vette with a smaller and more environmentally friendly V8 and wait for the first GT500 kill story to be published.
Why do I have a sick feeling in my stomach?????
Oh and the name Corvette will be around forever, why wouldn't it it has cache, but will it be a low slung 2 seat sports car?
09-04-2012, 01:55 PM
#59
The first clue that the "end is near" will be the first car magazine cover showing a Mustang and Corvette (C7) with the words - Mustang dethrones the vette
GM can do one of two things and most likely the vette's fate has already been decided
1. Throw the kitchen sink at the first year vette with a base HP of say 600+ and wipe the smirks off all challengers, you know dam the torpedoes full steam ahead or
2. Release the vette with a smaller and more environmentally friendly V8 and wait for the first GT500 kill story to be published.
Why do I have a sick feeling in my stomach?????
Oh and the name Corvette will be around forever, why wouldn't it it has cache, but will it be a low slung 2 seat sports car?
GM can do one of two things and most likely the vette's fate has already been decided
1. Throw the kitchen sink at the first year vette with a base HP of say 600+ and wipe the smirks off all challengers, you know dam the torpedoes full steam ahead or
2. Release the vette with a smaller and more environmentally friendly V8 and wait for the first GT500 kill story to be published.
Why do I have a sick feeling in my stomach?????
Oh and the name Corvette will be around forever, why wouldn't it it has cache, but will it be a low slung 2 seat sports car?
09-04-2012, 02:17 PM
#60
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Did I miss something is the GT500 not 70k fully loaded which runs high 10s with drag radials and beats the ZL1 on the road course even with an inferior suspension just off pure acceleration?
It's not the ZL1s fault it can't compete with the Shelby. Blame General Motors for taking the pressure off the ZL1 for failing in its intended market by labeling it a "Road Warrior" and a "Track Built Car"
It's a muscle car that can't even beat a Boss stock which doesn't offer Recaros or any real interior improvements and weighs in almost 300 pounds over the GT500...
I wouldn't even compare a Corvette to a GT500 unless it approaches its price tag. Realistically the Mustang is the ZR1 of American Muscle Cars.
It is not an inferior product and people in 50k sports cars that are a bracket up from a 370Z or STI should probably stop drinking the Kool Aid.
Will the C7 out perform the GT500 at the Nurburgring or on any basic track course? Well it certainly has weight in it's favor but you Corvette guys should stop comparing a Shotgun to a Sniper Rifle while feeling like you somehow have a superior product when your interiors are built for sub 70k cars and your biggest feature is a weight advantage on the base model...
Just because you may prefer an Entry Level Sniper Rifle for a certain encounter that gets the job done frugally doesn't make a less refined yet top of the line Shotgun that's priced slightly higher a lower quality gun.
Don't blame General Motors because their shotgun misfired and Fords can compete with their Sniper Rifle it's so overpowered than talk about your 50k Corvettes market superiority and exclusivity making it a better car
If you wanna talk about Affordability how about a 70k muscle car that can spank any Corvette outside of a Z07 packaged Z06 in a straight line while beating Chevys top muscle car around a track even when its only superior feature is better suspension...
You guys are sometimes as bad as Harley Riders with your self reach arounding of your brand hold your bulshit to the same standard. A GT500 costs more and can beat half the Corvette lineup in straight line acceleration and hang with it around the turns admirably. IT IS COMPETITION like it or not... Ignoring someone when their better at something than you doesn't make you a winner it makes you General Motors...
It's not the ZL1s fault it can't compete with the Shelby. Blame General Motors for taking the pressure off the ZL1 for failing in its intended market by labeling it a "Road Warrior" and a "Track Built Car"
It's a muscle car that can't even beat a Boss stock which doesn't offer Recaros or any real interior improvements and weighs in almost 300 pounds over the GT500...
I wouldn't even compare a Corvette to a GT500 unless it approaches its price tag. Realistically the Mustang is the ZR1 of American Muscle Cars.
It is not an inferior product and people in 50k sports cars that are a bracket up from a 370Z or STI should probably stop drinking the Kool Aid.
Will the C7 out perform the GT500 at the Nurburgring or on any basic track course? Well it certainly has weight in it's favor but you Corvette guys should stop comparing a Shotgun to a Sniper Rifle while feeling like you somehow have a superior product when your interiors are built for sub 70k cars and your biggest feature is a weight advantage on the base model...
Just because you may prefer an Entry Level Sniper Rifle for a certain encounter that gets the job done frugally doesn't make a less refined yet top of the line Shotgun that's priced slightly higher a lower quality gun.
Don't blame General Motors because their shotgun misfired and Fords can compete with their Sniper Rifle it's so overpowered than talk about your 50k Corvettes market superiority and exclusivity making it a better car
If you wanna talk about Affordability how about a 70k muscle car that can spank any Corvette outside of a Z07 packaged Z06 in a straight line while beating Chevys top muscle car around a track even when its only superior feature is better suspension...
You guys are sometimes as bad as Harley Riders with your self reach arounding of your brand hold your bulshit to the same standard. A GT500 costs more and can beat half the Corvette lineup in straight line acceleration and hang with it around the turns admirably. IT IS COMPETITION like it or not... Ignoring someone when their better at something than you doesn't make you a winner it makes you General Motors...
Last edited by HZ3; 09-04-2012 at 02:24 PM.