A C7 hypothetical...
11-09-2012, 03:22 PM
#21
Race Director
outa that FF - without also including losing the 120 lbs of the AWD.................
11-09-2012, 03:40 PM
#22
Burning Brakes
0-60 is not everything but thats the first thing most people look for when they read a article on a car... 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
This isnt Germany and we cant run foot to the floor on the freeway so most people dont look at top speed.
I dont understand why the traction issue with the newer Vettes.
Yes they have more power but allot has been done over the years to help with traction.
Example:
Unlike my old C4 the newer vettes have traction control, Launch control, the transmission is in the back and all kinds of electronic aids.
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt they help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who want AWD
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "C7 AWD, THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
This isnt Germany and we cant run foot to the floor on the freeway so most people dont look at top speed.
I dont understand why the traction issue with the newer Vettes.
Yes they have more power but allot has been done over the years to help with traction.
Example:
Unlike my old C4 the newer vettes have traction control, Launch control, the transmission is in the back and all kinds of electronic aids.
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt they help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who want AWD
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "C7 AWD, THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
Last edited by rad928music; 11-09-2012 at 06:03 PM. Reason: change
11-09-2012, 03:44 PM
#23
Race Director
.
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt thay help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who what AWD.
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "ATS AWD THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt thay help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who what AWD.
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "ATS AWD THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
idea! You should copyright that and sell it to Cadillac to use on their AWD models!
11-09-2012, 04:53 PM
#24
Race Director
Thread Starter
I guess you'd have to strip three of the four seats and lots of other stuff out of the interior just to start. Hey, sometimes I live in the hypothetical world...just for fun!
11-09-2012, 04:56 PM
#25
Race Director
Thread Starter
0-60 is not everything but thats the first thing most people look for when they read a article on a car... 0-60 and 1/4 mile times.
Unfortunatly this isnt Germany and we cant run foot to the floor on the freeway so most people dont look at top speed.
I dont understand why the traction issue with the newer Vettes.
Yes they have more power but allot has been done over the years to help with traction.
Example:
Unlike my old C4 the newer vettes have traction control, Launch control, the transmission is in tha back and all kinds of electronic aids.
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt thay help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who want AWD
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "C7 AWD THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
Unfortunatly this isnt Germany and we cant run foot to the floor on the freeway so most people dont look at top speed.
I dont understand why the traction issue with the newer Vettes.
Yes they have more power but allot has been done over the years to help with traction.
Example:
Unlike my old C4 the newer vettes have traction control, Launch control, the transmission is in tha back and all kinds of electronic aids.
Since it looks like Cadillac helped design The C7 (only going by what ive seen) why didnt thay help implement one of there AWD systems into the C7 for those who want AWD
A on demand AWD system would put the Vette in a new league.
Hows this for a C7 opening commercial.
Its a snowy day and out from the white cloud of snow you see 2 headlights.
As the lights get closer you here the sound of the new LT1 engine.
Then the new C7 swooshes by.
Then the words "C7 AWD THINGS HAVE CHANGED" appear on the screen.
That will blow peoples minds
As for using the Haldex AWD system Caddy uses, I would guess the Corvette folks would look for something a lot more robust and less complex and way lighter...however you get all that!
Last edited by BlueOx; 11-09-2012 at 04:59 PM.
11-09-2012, 05:15 PM
#26
VETERAN
Covette 2wh drive Vs. Corvette 4wh drive?
Four wheel drive traction really helps the front engine designed cars over the 2 wheel drive. The Porsche 911 2wh drive has always been quickly in 0-60 & 1/4 mile runs than the C4. This is different from a possible AWD Corvette. The rear drive/rear engined 911 doesn't have axle tramp problems like front drive cars do but the C4 was always heavier than the C2 so the C2 was quicker and still is today.
The Porsches really accelerate coming out of a turn. By the time the Corvette overcomes its lack of traction coming out of a turn the vette catches up to the 911 in the straights due to its torque. This action is very easy to see if you have ever gone to an ALMS race. Therefore, the Corvette would benefit more with AWD if all parameters are still the same as in the C6. Don't know about the C7 and the lighter weight and movement of more weight to the rear of the chassis, etc. The WRC Audi was originally quicker in 2wh drive over the quattro until the balance and weight improved & then the quattro really tore up the WRC racing world all other parameters were the same as far as Hp/torque/gearing.
I was always instructed by my racing mentors that front engined race/track cars will be better with AWD as compared to the rear wheel drive. Overall as Jinx states, there are just too many variables to compare the FF vs. the F12. Obviously weight & traction are difficult to compare unless everything else is the same such as Hp/Tq/gearing/chassis, etc.
Sorry for the long comment. Everyone already knows all this anyway.
I would be interested in a C7 with AWD only if they could keep the weight of the AWD system to 120 pounds like Ferrari did, otherwise just give me RWD with excellent tires and less weight.
Cheers,
The Porsches really accelerate coming out of a turn. By the time the Corvette overcomes its lack of traction coming out of a turn the vette catches up to the 911 in the straights due to its torque. This action is very easy to see if you have ever gone to an ALMS race. Therefore, the Corvette would benefit more with AWD if all parameters are still the same as in the C6. Don't know about the C7 and the lighter weight and movement of more weight to the rear of the chassis, etc. The WRC Audi was originally quicker in 2wh drive over the quattro until the balance and weight improved & then the quattro really tore up the WRC racing world all other parameters were the same as far as Hp/torque/gearing.
I was always instructed by my racing mentors that front engined race/track cars will be better with AWD as compared to the rear wheel drive. Overall as Jinx states, there are just too many variables to compare the FF vs. the F12. Obviously weight & traction are difficult to compare unless everything else is the same such as Hp/Tq/gearing/chassis, etc.
Sorry for the long comment. Everyone already knows all this anyway.
I would be interested in a C7 with AWD only if they could keep the weight of the AWD system to 120 pounds like Ferrari did, otherwise just give me RWD with excellent tires and less weight.
Cheers,
Last edited by GordyRay; 11-09-2012 at 05:31 PM.
11-09-2012, 06:04 PM
#27
Burning Brakes
11-10-2012, 12:52 AM
#28
Burning Brakes
Blue Ox,
This is yet another response to your OP that doesn't provide the simple number estimate thst you are seeking.
Sorry, but, IMHO, your OP is in fact a classic example of a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer. So please indulge me a non-simple non-answer.
My experience dabbling in drag racing decades ago has left me highly skeptical of the accuracy of published 0-60 times of less than about 5 seconds for any car. That's because, for cars this fast, seemingly little details affecting traction can affect the 0-60 time by at least +/- 1 second. What kind of tires and tire pre-conditioning? More importantly, what kind of track surface -- a dusty seldom-used back road or a VHT-preped drag strip at an ideal tempeasture or something in between?
Consider this article about a "stock" Ford Mustang (factory-produced rear-wheel drive drag race Mustang with supercharged 5.4-L and AT) that does 0-60 in 1.52 seconds:
http://www.dragracingonline.com/feat...-butner-1.html
As stated in the article, the all-wheel drive Bugatti Verron supposedly does 0-60 in 2.57 seconds.
My intuitive answer to your OP question is something like: On a typical city street, a hypothetical AWD C7 with an extra 120 pounds would probably be at least 0.5 seconds faster 0-60. On an ideally prepared drag strip and if the RWD C7 had ideal tires, my guess is that the AWD C7 would still be faster 0-60, but perhaps by as little as 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.
This is yet another response to your OP that doesn't provide the simple number estimate thst you are seeking.
Sorry, but, IMHO, your OP is in fact a classic example of a simple question that doesn't have a simple answer. So please indulge me a non-simple non-answer.
My experience dabbling in drag racing decades ago has left me highly skeptical of the accuracy of published 0-60 times of less than about 5 seconds for any car. That's because, for cars this fast, seemingly little details affecting traction can affect the 0-60 time by at least +/- 1 second. What kind of tires and tire pre-conditioning? More importantly, what kind of track surface -- a dusty seldom-used back road or a VHT-preped drag strip at an ideal tempeasture or something in between?
Consider this article about a "stock" Ford Mustang (factory-produced rear-wheel drive drag race Mustang with supercharged 5.4-L and AT) that does 0-60 in 1.52 seconds:
http://www.dragracingonline.com/feat...-butner-1.html
As stated in the article, the all-wheel drive Bugatti Verron supposedly does 0-60 in 2.57 seconds.
My intuitive answer to your OP question is something like: On a typical city street, a hypothetical AWD C7 with an extra 120 pounds would probably be at least 0.5 seconds faster 0-60. On an ideally prepared drag strip and if the RWD C7 had ideal tires, my guess is that the AWD C7 would still be faster 0-60, but perhaps by as little as 0.1 or 0.2 seconds.
I have a 4 banger turbo AWD Subaru WRX Cobb stg 2 making about 300 hp. My C5Z is a faster car but I'd take my WRX from red light to red light for consistency every time. ET streets, drag radial etc. on the C5Z would be a little bit of a different story. I love AWD but I do like smoking the rear tires for fun. On the street 2 cars being equal in power and weight, one rwd and one awd, the awd car is going to be about a half second quicker from 0 to 60 and in quarter mile times. 