C7 to offer 8 speed auto & 7 speed manual
12-01-2012, 12:15 AM
#81
Le Mans Master
Member Since: Jul 2009
Location: Los Angeles California
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If GM uses an 8 speed automatic with upshifts as quick as the ZL1, and offer a fuel economy benefit and quicker acceleration due to two extra ratios, I'm all for it. Why wouldn't anyone be? I think if there's any DCT, it will be exclusively for the top performance 'Vette.
A 7 speed manual seems really redundant to me, but hey, if GM wants to mimic Porsche that badly
A 7 speed manual seems really redundant to me, but hey, if GM wants to mimic Porsche that badly
Because if you're not, you're in for a long rant... (Just a warning...
)
12-01-2012, 12:35 AM
#82
Le Mans Master
I have heard GM autos are as fast as a DCT on upshifts, and that is key to me. Downshifts can be timed and help with the slowing down of the car. GM's not going DCT so who cares all about it here, IMO. Quicker translates to the Z51 vette getting to 60 faster, 1/4 mile,...., and more top end. The present ZR1 would have all of the above, except the 0-60, and an overdrive without the penalties.
Good Stuff!
Good Stuff!
12-01-2012, 12:46 AM
#84
Race Director
I have owned both and currently have a GM auto. The GM autos I have owned were in C6s and my CTS V. The C6s were also tuned. The DCT trans I have owned 6 series, M6 and the PDK I had in my Porsche. These trans are are night and day compared to GM. Not even in the same ballpark.
I dig the cts v on the track it's fun and fast yet it's still no dual clutch driving experience...
GM is doing a torque convertor automatic because it's as fast accelerating in a straight line from a dig if not faster than the dsg and that's GM s metric...
It's missing the insightful review of our friend here with his DCT M3..
I believe it's a mistake not to offer a DCT but GM has it's plan in place for the foreseeable future.
I'll test drive the automatic too see if it operates like a true DCT in manual mode....and then decide what to do from there.
12-01-2012, 01:19 AM
#85
Le Mans Master
Just a heads up but until the just released BMW m6 ...the previous generation had a single automated clutch unit. The Porsche has the pdk now as you described.
I dig the cts v on the track it's fun and fast yet it's still no dual clutch driving experience...
GM is doing a torque convertor automatic because it's as fast accelerating in a straight line from a dig if not faster than the dsg and that's GM s metric...
It's missing the insightful review of our friend here with his DCT M3..
I believe it's a mistake not to offer a DCT but GM has it's plan in place for the foreseeable future.
I'll test drive the automatic too see if it operates like a true DCT in manual mode....and then decide what to do from there.
I dig the cts v on the track it's fun and fast yet it's still no dual clutch driving experience...
GM is doing a torque convertor automatic because it's as fast accelerating in a straight line from a dig if not faster than the dsg and that's GM s metric...
It's missing the insightful review of our friend here with his DCT M3..
I believe it's a mistake not to offer a DCT but GM has it's plan in place for the foreseeable future.
I'll test drive the automatic too see if it operates like a true DCT in manual mode....and then decide what to do from there.
6-speed Sport automatic. Now offered as the standard transmission, the Sport Automatic offers quicker shift response in its Sport mode compared to BMW’s traditional STEPTRONIC automatic. This transmission also includes standard shift paddles on the steering wheel. The 650i Coupe and Convertible also utilize BMW’s E-shift selector. Instead of being moved from one position to the other, this lever is only “tipped” in one direction or another for most functions, returning to the same physical starting position. The shift pattern appears on the lever itself, rather than on the console. Other distinctions include
Last edited by DRLC5; 12-01-2012 at 01:26 AM.
12-01-2012, 03:14 AM
#86
Safety Car
Remember 2010 BMW started useing DCT trans.
6-speed Sport automatic. Now offered as the standard transmission, the Sport Automatic offers quicker shift response in its Sport mode compared to BMW’s traditional STEPTRONIC automatic. This transmission also includes standard shift paddles on the steering wheel. The 650i Coupe and Convertible also utilize BMW’s E-shift selector. Instead of being moved from one position to the other, this lever is only “tipped” in one direction or another for most functions, returning to the same physical starting position. The shift pattern appears on the lever itself, rather than on the console. Other distinctions include
6-speed Sport automatic. Now offered as the standard transmission, the Sport Automatic offers quicker shift response in its Sport mode compared to BMW’s traditional STEPTRONIC automatic. This transmission also includes standard shift paddles on the steering wheel. The 650i Coupe and Convertible also utilize BMW’s E-shift selector. Instead of being moved from one position to the other, this lever is only “tipped” in one direction or another for most functions, returning to the same physical starting position. The shift pattern appears on the lever itself, rather than on the console. Other distinctions include
A DCT is a manual trans and when you drive it thats what it feels like. An auto is an auto and it feels like it. In this regard in manual mode it doesn't matter how fast it shifts, if it holds gears, all that, they feel different. Someone who likes an auto and mostly drives that way is probably going to like one and conversely a DCT is a manual and it feels like one. Those who like the feel of a manual and will drive the car in manual most of the time will probably like the DCT better.
The lesser point I was trying to make... being able to adjust how the trans shifts is huge. In the M3 I can make the car shift in one of 16 different ways. When you have that many possibilities there is a lot better chance you are going to be able to set up the car the way you want it than when you put it in drive and it does the best job the engineers can do at making the best possible single compromise. This is not a small thing and once you have had it you will not want to let it go. DCT, automatic, either way, you will not regret being able to tell your trans how to shift. Trust me, you want this.
The last point was not to let the numbers skew in your mind how it really works out on the road. A modern DCT, it doesn't matter which one, or a modern automatic, again it doesn't matter which one. Either has the capability to shift very very quickly. You are not likely to be out on the road unsatisfied over the shift speed. The feel, how it works, how it can be set up, these are more important points.
12-01-2012, 08:42 AM
#87
Melting Slicks
The new auto and the DCT are two different animals. Your post talks about the auto, the DCT is whole different ball game. I think the important points for most people depend on what they want.
A DCT is a manual trans and when you drive it thats what it feels like. An auto is an auto and it feels like it. In this regard in manual mode it doesn't matter how fast it shifts, if it holds gears, all that, they feel different. Someone who likes an auto and mostly drives that way is probably going to like one and conversely a DCT is a manual and it feels like one. Those who like the feel of a manual and will drive the car in manual most of the time will probably like the DCT better.
The lesser point I was trying to make... being able to adjust how the trans shifts is huge. In the M3 I can make the car shift in one of 16 different ways. When you have that many possibilities there is a lot better chance you are going to be able to set up the car the way you want it than when you put it in drive and it does the best job the engineers can do at making the best possible single compromise. This is not a small thing and once you have had it you will not want to let it go. DCT, automatic, either way, you will not regret being able to tell your trans how to shift. Trust me, you want this.
The last point was not to let the numbers skew in your mind how it really works out on the road. A modern DCT, it doesn't matter which one, or a modern automatic, again it doesn't matter which one. Either has the capability to shift very very quickly. You are not likely to be out on the road unsatisfied over the shift speed. The feel, how it works, how it can be set up, these are more important points.
A DCT is a manual trans and when you drive it thats what it feels like. An auto is an auto and it feels like it. In this regard in manual mode it doesn't matter how fast it shifts, if it holds gears, all that, they feel different. Someone who likes an auto and mostly drives that way is probably going to like one and conversely a DCT is a manual and it feels like one. Those who like the feel of a manual and will drive the car in manual most of the time will probably like the DCT better.
The lesser point I was trying to make... being able to adjust how the trans shifts is huge. In the M3 I can make the car shift in one of 16 different ways. When you have that many possibilities there is a lot better chance you are going to be able to set up the car the way you want it than when you put it in drive and it does the best job the engineers can do at making the best possible single compromise. This is not a small thing and once you have had it you will not want to let it go. DCT, automatic, either way, you will not regret being able to tell your trans how to shift. Trust me, you want this.
The last point was not to let the numbers skew in your mind how it really works out on the road. A modern DCT, it doesn't matter which one, or a modern automatic, again it doesn't matter which one. Either has the capability to shift very very quickly. You are not likely to be out on the road unsatisfied over the shift speed. The feel, how it works, how it can be set up, these are more important points.
I did not care for the feel of my manual trans in my Z06 . No rifle bolt shift feel and a springy clutch pedal.
12-01-2012, 10:54 AM
#88
Melting Slicks
I think it’s been mentioned before, but why do we need a 7 speed manual box? In 5 years of ownership of my C6 I have never had a situation where I was left saying “I wish I had another gear”. Actually quite the opposite, there’s so much torque here that when the car was new and the shift linkage still a bit stiff, I occasionally pulled away from stop signs in 3rd gear by mistake thinking I was in 1st – the car didn’t complain. I bought a manual because I love to row the gears just as much as the next guy or gal, but sometimes more isn’t better.
12-01-2012, 12:20 PM
#89
Le Mans Master
The new auto and the DCT are two different animals. Your post talks about the auto, the DCT is whole different ball game. I think the important points for most people depend on what they want.
A DCT is a manual trans and when you drive it thats what it feels like. An auto is an auto and it feels like it. In this regard in manual mode it doesn't matter how fast it shifts, if it holds gears, all that, they feel different. Someone who likes an auto and mostly drives that way is probably going to like one and conversely a DCT is a manual and it feels like one. Those who like the feel of a manual and will drive the car in manual most of the time will probably like the DCT better.
The lesser point I was trying to make... being able to adjust how the trans shifts is huge. In the M3 I can make the car shift in one of 16 different ways. When you have that many possibilities there is a lot better chance you are going to be able to set up the car the way you want it than when you put it in drive and it does the best job the engineers can do at making the best possible single compromise. This is not a small thing and once you have had it you will not want to let it go. DCT, automatic, either way, you will not regret being able to tell your trans how to shift. Trust me, you want this.
The last point was not to let the numbers skew in your mind how it really works out on the road. A modern DCT, it doesn't matter which one, or a modern automatic, again it doesn't matter which one. Either has the capability to shift very very quickly. You are not likely to be out on the road unsatisfied over the shift speed. The feel, how it works, how it can be set up, these are more important points.
A DCT is a manual trans and when you drive it thats what it feels like. An auto is an auto and it feels like it. In this regard in manual mode it doesn't matter how fast it shifts, if it holds gears, all that, they feel different. Someone who likes an auto and mostly drives that way is probably going to like one and conversely a DCT is a manual and it feels like one. Those who like the feel of a manual and will drive the car in manual most of the time will probably like the DCT better.
The lesser point I was trying to make... being able to adjust how the trans shifts is huge. In the M3 I can make the car shift in one of 16 different ways. When you have that many possibilities there is a lot better chance you are going to be able to set up the car the way you want it than when you put it in drive and it does the best job the engineers can do at making the best possible single compromise. This is not a small thing and once you have had it you will not want to let it go. DCT, automatic, either way, you will not regret being able to tell your trans how to shift. Trust me, you want this.
The last point was not to let the numbers skew in your mind how it really works out on the road. A modern DCT, it doesn't matter which one, or a modern automatic, again it doesn't matter which one. Either has the capability to shift very very quickly. You are not likely to be out on the road unsatisfied over the shift speed. The feel, how it works, how it can be set up, these are more important points.
Performance & Handling
The BMW 6 Series base V-8 produces 360 horsepower and 360 pound-feet of torque and the 6 Series' exhaust system is specially engineered to lend the V-8 engine a sporty note. The M6 gets the potent V-10 delivering 500 horsepower and 383 pound-feet of torque. BMW's seven-speed dual-clutch automated manual DCT gearbox is standard, while the six-speed manual is a no cost option.
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010...#ixzz2Dp2Du6gh
Read more: http://www.automobilemag.com/am/2010...#ixzz2Dp0nZCrA
Last edited by DRLC5; 12-01-2012 at 12:24 PM.
12-01-2012, 12:35 PM
#90
Safety Car
I mistook the sport automatic portion of it and thought the whole thing was referring to that. Sorry about that, my bad. I'm sure you know what trans your car had in it. lol
12-05-2012, 11:39 AM
#91
AIR FORCE VETERAN
Fair enough. I totally get this.
I remember people wanted that 93 F-body Borg Warner T56 because of the gearing over the Tremec T56 that came in the later years. They were stronger and geared like the MN12s. One single year and now those transmissions are gold to the SBC and LT1 guys.
With the C6s, some people actually preferred the 4L60 in 2005 because they were better for drag racing. I don't care about drag racing, to be honest, so not having the 6 speed auto would suck to me. Lesser of 2 evils?
And you're right, people b!tch and complain one way or another when there's a variance in anything when it comes to Corvettes. It's a little surprising what people expect out of a $50K car.
I remember people wanted that 93 F-body Borg Warner T56 because of the gearing over the Tremec T56 that came in the later years. They were stronger and geared like the MN12s. One single year and now those transmissions are gold to the SBC and LT1 guys.
With the C6s, some people actually preferred the 4L60 in 2005 because they were better for drag racing. I don't care about drag racing, to be honest, so not having the 6 speed auto would suck to me. Lesser of 2 evils?
And you're right, people b!tch and complain one way or another when there's a variance in anything when it comes to Corvettes. It's a little surprising what people expect out of a $50K car.
well said. It doesn't matter what they do with the Corvette somebody is going to complain. However it is their right to do that.: