Weight benchmark
01-12-2013, 11:34 AM
#41
An 84-87 in particular has a LOT fewer parts than the later cars. I bought my 90 vette because of reading magazines and being duped. It weighed 3390 with a full tank. 1990-91 was actually the heaviest c4, but the net won't tell you that. I have had several stock 86-87's on scales and all were 200+ pounds lighter than that. If you look in the parts books you can find the weight, too.
My c2 and c3 numbers are correct as well.
I've owned 7 corvettes, of all different years. All were bone stock when i bought them. All were on scales several times.
If you want to criticize other posters, you should go spend some time in the real world with cars first, rather than reading the internet.
Miatas and mr2's were under 2200 pounds with all the government crap, even with mostly all iron and steel components.
I dont like them, but they are an example of better weight control than gm has used on the vette.
I wish the government would butt out, the powertrain and suspension engineers would win out over the nvh and electrical teams, and we'd get a slightly smaller, much lighter car.
Again, if you put modern suspension and drivetrains under a c1-4, even with all the chrome, steel frame, heavy interior components, etc., you have a 2600-2800 lb car. If those cars had aluminum frames, magnesium subframes, cf bodies and interior parts, a fully streetable, comfortable car would weigh in the 2600 or less range. I would love such a car.
Last edited by theseal; 01-12-2013 at 11:37 AM.
01-12-2013, 02:23 PM
#42
Team Owner
Ok, mr. Magazine queen of the internet age. My weights are from certified race scales. You are pickin up internet fantasies.
An 84-87 in particular has a LOT fewer parts than the later cars. I bought my 90 vette because of reading magazines and being duped. It weighed 3390 with a full tank. 1990-91 was actually the heaviest c4, but the net won't tell you that. I have had several stock 86-87's on scales and all were 200+ pounds lighter than that. If you look in the parts books you can find the weight, too.
My c2 and c3 numbers are correct as well.
I've owned 7 corvettes, of all different years. All were bone stock when i bought them. All were on scales several times.
If you want to criticize other posters, you should go spend some time in the real world with cars first, rather than reading the internet.
Miatas and mr2's were under 2200 pounds with all the government crap, even with mostly all iron and steel components.
I dont like them, but they are an example of better weight control than gm has used on the vette.
I wish the government would butt out, the powertrain and suspension engineers would win out over the nvh and electrical teams, and we'd get a slightly smaller, much lighter car.
Again, if you put modern suspension and drivetrains under a c1-4, even with all the chrome, steel frame, heavy interior components, etc., you have a 2600-2800 lb car. If those cars had aluminum frames, magnesium subframes, cf bodies and interior parts, a fully streetable, comfortable car would weigh in the 2600 or less range. I would love such a car.
An 84-87 in particular has a LOT fewer parts than the later cars. I bought my 90 vette because of reading magazines and being duped. It weighed 3390 with a full tank. 1990-91 was actually the heaviest c4, but the net won't tell you that. I have had several stock 86-87's on scales and all were 200+ pounds lighter than that. If you look in the parts books you can find the weight, too.
My c2 and c3 numbers are correct as well.
I've owned 7 corvettes, of all different years. All were bone stock when i bought them. All were on scales several times.
If you want to criticize other posters, you should go spend some time in the real world with cars first, rather than reading the internet.
Miatas and mr2's were under 2200 pounds with all the government crap, even with mostly all iron and steel components.
I dont like them, but they are an example of better weight control than gm has used on the vette.
I wish the government would butt out, the powertrain and suspension engineers would win out over the nvh and electrical teams, and we'd get a slightly smaller, much lighter car.
Again, if you put modern suspension and drivetrains under a c1-4, even with all the chrome, steel frame, heavy interior components, etc., you have a 2600-2800 lb car. If those cars had aluminum frames, magnesium subframes, cf bodies and interior parts, a fully streetable, comfortable car would weigh in the 2600 or less range. I would love such a car.
Now you provide something to back up your claim of the early C4's weighing 3000 pounds.
01-12-2013, 04:55 PM
#43
http://www.roadandtrack.com/car-revi...rolet-corvette
Now you provide something to back up your claim of the early C4's weighing 3000 pounds.
Now you provide something to back up your claim of the early C4's weighing 3000 pounds.
i just bought a fully loaded 87 with z51 (lots of extra frame parts)
with a spare, jack, and everything in it, stock exhaust, everything, even old french fries under the seats, and crap in the console, it weighs 3121 with a full tank. That's over 17 gallons of gas (over 100 pounds). The stock 16x9.5 wheels weigh 26 pounds each... c5z wheels weigh 19 and 21 respectively.
i plan on running scca stock with it, if you want to put your magazines down and come race, it'll be available for you to come see it on the scales. there will be scales on site. with base seats, no jack & spare, glass top, modern wheels, and cat back exhaust (all within 'stock' rules, it will weigh in at just over 2900 and that's even if I don't bother with the radio delete option, which would be another 20 pounds.
step back from your screen, put down your magazines, and experience some cars please.
the point of this thread is not to argue, the point is there is so much government garbage, electrical garbage, extra unnecessary insulation, and so much extra sheer track and wheelbase, that these cars are still boat anchors despite using lightweight materials all over. It sucks. Build a c2 sized, simple, sportscar with no BS and a high quality, comfortable but simple interior, and make the best car ever; i want a button for the lights. a **** for the ac, a **** for the stereo, a key for the ignition, and a button for the freaking windows. forget all the other crap that rather than helping is actually an annoyance and failure point.
instead we get built in tv screens, active handling, body control modules, automatic everything, and all manner of ridiculous crap that there is no reason for.
if that 2900 pound c4 had an LT1, it would weigh under 2800. If it had an aluminum frame, 2650 or less. CF body, probably better than 2450. modern, lighterweight interior parts, 2400. titanium exhaust like a c5z, probably 2380. There's room in the transmission as well, the 4+3 is no paper weight, but it is lighter than that anvil they used for the later 6 speeds. A stock LT1 would be an incredible supercar at that weight, and get incredible mileage. C4 sized frontal area would help mileage tremendously as well. My C6Z06 was a PRESSFIT between my trailer fenders, literally. My c4 rolls in what seems like MILES to spare, and you can open the door and get out.
01-12-2013, 05:02 PM
#44
Race Director
Thread Starter
you seriously posted a road and track article? really?
i just bought a fully loaded 87 with z51 (lots of extra frame parts)
with a spare, jack, and everything in it, stock exhaust, everything, even old french fries under the seats, and crap in the console, it weighs 3121 with a full tank. That's over 17 gallons of gas (over 100 pounds). The stock 16x9.5 wheels weigh 26 pounds each... c5z wheels weigh 19 and 21 respectively.
i plan on running scca stock with it, if you want to put your magazines down and come race, it'll be available for you to come see it on the scales. there will be scales on site. with base seats, no jack & spare, glass top, modern wheels, and cat back exhaust (all within 'stock' rules, it will weigh in at just over 2900 and that's even if I don't bother with the radio delete option, which would be another 20 pounds.
step back from your screen, put down your magazines, and experience some cars please.
the point of this thread is not to argue, the point is there is so much government garbage, electrical garbage, extra unnecessary insulation, and so much extra sheer track and wheelbase, that these cars are still boat anchors despite using lightweight materials all over. It sucks. Build a c2 sized, simple, sportscar with no BS and a high quality, comfortable but simple interior, and make the best car ever; i want a button for the lights. a **** for the ac, a **** for the stereo, a key for the ignition, and a button for the freaking windows. forget all the other crap that rather than helping is actually an annoyance and failure point.
instead we get built in tv screens, active handling, body control modules, automatic everything, and all manner of ridiculous crap that there is no reason for.
if that 2900 pound c4 had an LT1, it would weigh under 2800. If it had an aluminum frame, 2650 or less. CF body, probably better than 2450. modern, lighterweight interior parts, 2400. titanium exhaust like a c5z, probably 2380. There's room in the transmission as well, the 4+3 is no paper weight, but it is lighter than that anvil they used for the later 6 speeds. A stock LT1 would be an incredible supercar at that weight, and get incredible mileage. C4 sized frontal area would help mileage tremendously as well. My C6Z06 was a PRESSFIT between my trailer fenders, literally. My c4 rolls in what seems like MILES to spare, and you can open the door and get out.
i just bought a fully loaded 87 with z51 (lots of extra frame parts)
with a spare, jack, and everything in it, stock exhaust, everything, even old french fries under the seats, and crap in the console, it weighs 3121 with a full tank. That's over 17 gallons of gas (over 100 pounds). The stock 16x9.5 wheels weigh 26 pounds each... c5z wheels weigh 19 and 21 respectively.
i plan on running scca stock with it, if you want to put your magazines down and come race, it'll be available for you to come see it on the scales. there will be scales on site. with base seats, no jack & spare, glass top, modern wheels, and cat back exhaust (all within 'stock' rules, it will weigh in at just over 2900 and that's even if I don't bother with the radio delete option, which would be another 20 pounds.
step back from your screen, put down your magazines, and experience some cars please.
the point of this thread is not to argue, the point is there is so much government garbage, electrical garbage, extra unnecessary insulation, and so much extra sheer track and wheelbase, that these cars are still boat anchors despite using lightweight materials all over. It sucks. Build a c2 sized, simple, sportscar with no BS and a high quality, comfortable but simple interior, and make the best car ever; i want a button for the lights. a **** for the ac, a **** for the stereo, a key for the ignition, and a button for the freaking windows. forget all the other crap that rather than helping is actually an annoyance and failure point.
instead we get built in tv screens, active handling, body control modules, automatic everything, and all manner of ridiculous crap that there is no reason for.
if that 2900 pound c4 had an LT1, it would weigh under 2800. If it had an aluminum frame, 2650 or less. CF body, probably better than 2450. modern, lighterweight interior parts, 2400. titanium exhaust like a c5z, probably 2380. There's room in the transmission as well, the 4+3 is no paper weight, but it is lighter than that anvil they used for the later 6 speeds. A stock LT1 would be an incredible supercar at that weight, and get incredible mileage. C4 sized frontal area would help mileage tremendously as well. My C6Z06 was a PRESSFIT between my trailer fenders, literally. My c4 rolls in what seems like MILES to spare, and you can open the door and get out.
01-12-2013, 05:29 PM
#45
I am going to go ahead and apologize to everyone for my tone. I'm doing taxes and i am furious about it.
I also have a long frustration with government and car makers, even one i love, like gm.
Bottom line, i realize all the 'sources' say 3200+ for all c4's. but personal experience says they are wrong. Some are lighter. Some years are much heavier.
You want my perfect vette?
69 body in cf (bumpers n all- still chrome finish though - and either modern fixed headlights or at least electric popups)
C6z aluminum frame concepts.
C5z06 abs and suspension tuning, and gearing
C7 lt1
Interior? I'd go for one like the last factory 'race package' ferrari 360 i drove. Cf seats and dash with good stitched leather. Simple. Dock station for apple or similar gear but no electronics of its own.
I also have a long frustration with government and car makers, even one i love, like gm.
Bottom line, i realize all the 'sources' say 3200+ for all c4's. but personal experience says they are wrong. Some are lighter. Some years are much heavier.
You want my perfect vette?
69 body in cf (bumpers n all- still chrome finish though - and either modern fixed headlights or at least electric popups)
C6z aluminum frame concepts.
C5z06 abs and suspension tuning, and gearing
C7 lt1
Interior? I'd go for one like the last factory 'race package' ferrari 360 i drove. Cf seats and dash with good stitched leather. Simple. Dock station for apple or similar gear but no electronics of its own.
Get out your frustrations ramey, that is what we are here for.
01-12-2013, 05:43 PM
#47
Successful Plumber
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10
NCM Member '09
I am going to go ahead and apologize to everyone for my tone. I'm doing taxes and i am furious about it.
I also have a long frustration with government and car makers, even one i love, like gm.
Bottom line, i realize all the 'sources' say 3200+ for all c4's. but personal experience says they are wrong. Some are lighter. Some years are much heavier.
You want my perfect vette?
69 body in cf (bumpers n all- still chrome finish though - and either modern fixed headlights or at least electric popups)
C6z aluminum frame concepts.
C5z06 abs and suspension tuning, and gearing
C7 lt1
Interior? I'd go for one like the last factory 'race package' ferrari 360 i drove. Cf seats and dash with good stitched leather. Simple. Dock station for apple or similar gear but no electronics of its own.
I also have a long frustration with government and car makers, even one i love, like gm.
Bottom line, i realize all the 'sources' say 3200+ for all c4's. but personal experience says they are wrong. Some are lighter. Some years are much heavier.
You want my perfect vette?
69 body in cf (bumpers n all- still chrome finish though - and either modern fixed headlights or at least electric popups)
C6z aluminum frame concepts.
C5z06 abs and suspension tuning, and gearing
C7 lt1
Interior? I'd go for one like the last factory 'race package' ferrari 360 i drove. Cf seats and dash with good stitched leather. Simple. Dock station for apple or similar gear but no electronics of its own.
You can find the GM specs at Corvette Action Center - they list your 87 C4 at 3325. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l#.UPHmjEKQ2ao
01-12-2013, 05:53 PM
#48
Safety Car
Give me a break. If you actually weigh an 84-87, they are not much more than 3000, WITH 60 POUNDS WORTH OF JACKS, SPARE TIRES and extra crap, which the new ones don't have.
I would bet a small block 65-7 is probably actually under 3000 in some trim as well.
My 70 was under 3000, and that was with 300 extra pounds worth of iron calipers, wheels, and engine parts.
I'd bet ALL of the 50's vettes come in close to or under 3000.
3000 is HEAVY. Not light.
A g machine c1-4, with modern wheels, calipers, coilovers or fiberglass springs, and a modern motor will be in the 26-2800 range, in FULL street trim.
all that is with NO carbon fiber, etc.
you can thank the government for a lot of that BS weight, and then thank fat butts and out of control electrical engineers for the rest.
This car should be sub - 2800, and actually it should be about 7/8 scale and be sub 2600.
I would bet a small block 65-7 is probably actually under 3000 in some trim as well.
My 70 was under 3000, and that was with 300 extra pounds worth of iron calipers, wheels, and engine parts.
I'd bet ALL of the 50's vettes come in close to or under 3000.
3000 is HEAVY. Not light.
A g machine c1-4, with modern wheels, calipers, coilovers or fiberglass springs, and a modern motor will be in the 26-2800 range, in FULL street trim.
all that is with NO carbon fiber, etc.
you can thank the government for a lot of that BS weight, and then thank fat butts and out of control electrical engineers for the rest.
This car should be sub - 2800, and actually it should be about 7/8 scale and be sub 2600.
I can enjoy a car ~3200lbs just fine. I enjoy that I can drive it to work and A/C the cabin so that I don't smell in my clothes around people. I like the infotainment systems that I use in bumper to bumper traffic or to stay informed by linking it with the world wide web. I even like the sound deadening so I keep my hearing many years from now on.
We have it so good.
01-12-2013, 05:55 PM
#49
Successful Plumber
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Another weight reduction element is the elimination of that huge dome of back glass.
01-12-2013, 06:03 PM
#50
Team Owner
you seriously posted a road and track article? really?
i just bought a fully loaded 87 with z51 (lots of extra frame parts)
with a spare, jack, and everything in it, stock exhaust, everything, even old french fries under the seats, and crap in the console, it weighs 3121 with a full tank. That's over 17 gallons of gas (over 100 pounds). The stock 16x9.5 wheels weigh 26 pounds each... c5z wheels weigh 19 and 21 respectively.
i plan on running scca stock with it, if you want to put your magazines down and come race, it'll be available for you to come see it on the scales. there will be scales on site. with base seats, no jack & spare, glass top, modern wheels, and cat back exhaust (all within 'stock' rules, it will weigh in at just over 2900 and that's even if I don't bother with the radio delete option, which would be another 20 pounds.
step back from your screen, put down your magazines, and experience some cars please.
the point of this thread is not to argue, the point is there is so much government garbage, electrical garbage, extra unnecessary insulation, and so much extra sheer track and wheelbase, that these cars are still boat anchors despite using lightweight materials all over. It sucks. Build a c2 sized, simple, sportscar with no BS and a high quality, comfortable but simple interior, and make the best car ever; i want a button for the lights. a **** for the ac, a **** for the stereo, a key for the ignition, and a button for the freaking windows. forget all the other crap that rather than helping is actually an annoyance and failure point.
instead we get built in tv screens, active handling, body control modules, automatic everything, and all manner of ridiculous crap that there is no reason for.
if that 2900 pound c4 had an LT1, it would weigh under 2800. If it had an aluminum frame, 2650 or less. CF body, probably better than 2450. modern, lighterweight interior parts, 2400. titanium exhaust like a c5z, probably 2380. There's room in the transmission as well, the 4+3 is no paper weight, but it is lighter than that anvil they used for the later 6 speeds. A stock LT1 would be an incredible supercar at that weight, and get incredible mileage. C4 sized frontal area would help mileage tremendously as well. My C6Z06 was a PRESSFIT between my trailer fenders, literally. My c4 rolls in what seems like MILES to spare, and you can open the door and get out.
i just bought a fully loaded 87 with z51 (lots of extra frame parts)
with a spare, jack, and everything in it, stock exhaust, everything, even old french fries under the seats, and crap in the console, it weighs 3121 with a full tank. That's over 17 gallons of gas (over 100 pounds). The stock 16x9.5 wheels weigh 26 pounds each... c5z wheels weigh 19 and 21 respectively.
i plan on running scca stock with it, if you want to put your magazines down and come race, it'll be available for you to come see it on the scales. there will be scales on site. with base seats, no jack & spare, glass top, modern wheels, and cat back exhaust (all within 'stock' rules, it will weigh in at just over 2900 and that's even if I don't bother with the radio delete option, which would be another 20 pounds.
step back from your screen, put down your magazines, and experience some cars please.
the point of this thread is not to argue, the point is there is so much government garbage, electrical garbage, extra unnecessary insulation, and so much extra sheer track and wheelbase, that these cars are still boat anchors despite using lightweight materials all over. It sucks. Build a c2 sized, simple, sportscar with no BS and a high quality, comfortable but simple interior, and make the best car ever; i want a button for the lights. a **** for the ac, a **** for the stereo, a key for the ignition, and a button for the freaking windows. forget all the other crap that rather than helping is actually an annoyance and failure point.
instead we get built in tv screens, active handling, body control modules, automatic everything, and all manner of ridiculous crap that there is no reason for.
if that 2900 pound c4 had an LT1, it would weigh under 2800. If it had an aluminum frame, 2650 or less. CF body, probably better than 2450. modern, lighterweight interior parts, 2400. titanium exhaust like a c5z, probably 2380. There's room in the transmission as well, the 4+3 is no paper weight, but it is lighter than that anvil they used for the later 6 speeds. A stock LT1 would be an incredible supercar at that weight, and get incredible mileage. C4 sized frontal area would help mileage tremendously as well. My C6Z06 was a PRESSFIT between my trailer fenders, literally. My c4 rolls in what seems like MILES to spare, and you can open the door and get out.
Are you sure you want to challege me? Here is a photo I just took of my 1972 Corvette placed next to my C6 Z06. My 1972 Corvette is the lightest Corvette and here it is on the scales to prove it.
A shot of my 56 and you can see the bumper of my 64. Both are lighter then a C4.
Oh, and if you think I'm just a waxer, here is a couple of photos of me on the track with my Z06.
ALL of my current Corvettes weigh less then your C4 and my Z06 is definitely faster..
And in case you don't believe the Internet here is a photo I just took in my (cold) garage of my 1987 issue of R&T Corvette. Sorry for the bad photo but I was shriving and I don't want to take the effort to re shoot the cover.
By the way, anyone can gut their car to reduce it's weight, but that does not make it as it came from the factory. I could gut my Z06 and would still be lighter then your gutted pig.
Last edited by JoesC5; 01-12-2013 at 06:37 PM.
01-12-2013, 06:15 PM
#51
Safety Car
That reason is why, for comparisons, we use the published data that the magazines get from the manufacturers. The magazines don't scale the cars.
You can find the GM specs at Corvette Action Center - they list your 87 C4 at 3325. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l#.UPHmjEKQ2ao
You can find the GM specs at Corvette Action Center - they list your 87 C4 at 3325. http://www.corvetteactioncenter.com/...l#.UPHmjEKQ2ao
The only possible way to compare various cars of various years from various manufacturers is to use the manufacturers' stated weights.
01-12-2013, 06:46 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
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Curb weight is fueled. It is not to be confused with "dry weight" or track weights where guys are running low fuel.
01-12-2013, 06:58 PM
#53
Team Owner
The curb weight(full to the brim with all fluids) on a 2013 Z06 is 3199 pounds and the dry weight is 3041 pounds, but you don't want to run it at the track like that as dry weight is without any fluids. Coolant, engine oil, gas, brake fluid, power steering fluid, transmission fluid, differential fluid etc.
01-12-2013, 07:20 PM
#54
I say we will know hopefully tomorrow. If I had to guess I would say around 3,105lbs
01-12-2013, 07:24 PM
#55
Le Mans Master
Corvette From the Inside by Dave McLellan, chief engineer of the fourth-generation Corvette, page 119 --
"When we finished with the 1983 Corvette we had the curb weight (with a full tank of gas but without the driver) down to 3,192 lb, compared to the 3,342 lb of the 1982 car. That was as close as we would get to, and within 7 percent of our goal of, 3,000 lb."
Not 2700-something, not 2800-something, but 8 lbs shy of 3200.
.Jinx
"When we finished with the 1983 Corvette we had the curb weight (with a full tank of gas but without the driver) down to 3,192 lb, compared to the 3,342 lb of the 1982 car. That was as close as we would get to, and within 7 percent of our goal of, 3,000 lb."
Not 2700-something, not 2800-something, but 8 lbs shy of 3200.
.Jinx
01-12-2013, 07:58 PM
#56
Team Owner
Corvette From the Inside by Dave McLellan, chief engineer of the fourth-generation Corvette, page 119 --
"When we finished with the 1983 Corvette we had the curb weight (with a full tank of gas but without the driver) down to 3,192 lb, compared to the 3,342 lb of the 1982 car. That was as close as we would get to, and within 7 percent of our goal of, 3,000 lb."
Not 2700-something, not 2800-something, but 8 lbs shy of 3200.
.Jinx
"When we finished with the 1983 Corvette we had the curb weight (with a full tank of gas but without the driver) down to 3,192 lb, compared to the 3,342 lb of the 1982 car. That was as close as we would get to, and within 7 percent of our goal of, 3,000 lb."
Not 2700-something, not 2800-something, but 8 lbs shy of 3200.
.Jinx
01-12-2013, 08:46 PM
#57
Furrher, curb weight on a c4 includes a jack. A spare tire. A spare tire cover. An old 48 lb battery. A lot of very heavy accessories that have no eauivalent on a c6 or 7. My point was not to debate c4 weight, though i'm the only one so far with true information: my point was that early c4's are just as light as this c7 is likely to be, despite being dinosaurs.
They also have a steel frame. An iron block and engine that weighs 115 lbs more than an ls7. Seats that weigh 45 lbs instead of 30 for a later car. An 85lb hood. Big heavy early cats and heavy exhaust. Headlight motors. A 4+3 that probably weighs as much as a t6060. Yet that car is as light as an aluminum framed, aluminim engine, cf body c6z. Which tells me the later cars are too big and have too much crap all over them.
I'm done discussing c4's on this thread. But if you think an early car weighs 3200+ then you may as well think the world is flat.
I guess no one appreciates my apology earlier, for being a little snappy earlier, but joe, come on down and bring your c6z. I'll prove my point on the scales. Then i'll pour you a good scotch.
01-12-2013, 08:48 PM
#58
01-12-2013, 08:59 PM
#59
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01-12-2013, 09:27 PM
#60
Safety Car
Newer cars also have more body rigidity, wider thread, larger brakes, better aero, more power and therefore larger supporting parts like diff, axles, transmissions, clutch and so on. Lastly, they don't break down as much and offer more amenities.
I don't see how you can call the difference in weight "crap". Actually point to the things that you feel are crap and add significant body weight.
I don't see how you can call the difference in weight "crap". Actually point to the things that you feel are crap and add significant body weight.