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Old 01-22-2013, 01:29 PM   #1
Boil
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Default A different view on the 450hp/450tq numbers…

Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but I think many who are crying about the 450hp/450tq numbers being too low might be thinking of "at the crankshaft" numbers…

What if GM is actually giving us "at the rear wheels" numbers…!?!

Discuss…
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:37 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boil View Post
Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but I think many who are crying about the 450hp/450tq numbers being too low might be thinking of "at the crankshaft" numbers…

What if GM is actually giving us "at the rear wheels" numbers…!?!

Discuss…
It seems to be hard to give input here, I hope you are correct and I don't know of any companies (somebody might be able to chime in here) that market their wheel horsepower. Do you have any concrete evidence or just a hunch? To me it would seem more logical to market the highest horsepower numbers possible to the general public which would be the crank numbers. Many have complained about the power and rightfully so since previous generations increases have been higher. The numbers are "good enough for me" whatever they may be. I just enjoy having my Corvette and making it look good with a few bolt ons. I also think that this will be a very strong power plant.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #3
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This will be to the flywheel. You can bank on that!
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:43 PM   #4
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I really hope you are right however, I'm starting to buy that GM is going to stick us with this 450/450 (Crank HP)... I hope they surprise us and provided a much more satisfying HP bump
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:50 PM   #5
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450 at the fly is what it's gonna be, so lay aside all this wishful thinking (although I am wishfully thinking, LOL).

Last edited by Kratos-TM; 01-22-2013 at 03:41 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 01:52 PM   #6
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Nope.

A lot of these whiners are spoiled. People complain about the lack of power increases and start explaining how its sad there is only an extra 15hp with all of these new technical features, but somehow overlook that the LT1 has an extra 50lbft over the LS3 in the lower RPMs.

Geeze guys. Even at 450hp, the LT1 is a very good motor.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:11 PM   #7
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Nope, at the fly like always.

LT1 is a very good motor but it does not surprise. The Viper V10 makes more power per liter while being a much larger engine of the same basic architecture and without DI and all the drawbacks associated with it, like extra weight, computing power, junk build up inside the motor, or the noise of the pump, or the space that it takes up in the valley.

Powerterrain team should have made a 505hp LT1 from the same 6.2L. My guess is that the AFM is holding the motor back with a mild cam, or that the benefits of the intake and exhaust cam-in-cam are larger than GM makes it seem. They probably did not want to pay royalties for the Mechadyne cam. GM can make a better flowing head than Chrysler, it's got to be the cam is holding the engine back, or AFM indirectly, but still a cam problem.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:16 PM   #8
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I don't believe the lt1 will have less hp than the srt8 which is at 470 hp.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:36 PM   #9
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Doesn't everybody understand what's going on here. The C7 was released without one shred of performance data because the car is going to be a UNDERACHIEVER. They want you to get caught up in all the interior and exterior looks and all the hype that goes with it. They come out with this big reveal, show the car all over the U.S. get everybody on board on what this car can be in their minds and sell you on it with out ever showing you one road test. By the time some body does get their hands on one to test every body will be so in love with the body they wont care what the performance data is and will buy the car just on the looks and the technology. GM wont admit it but its not going to be the beast they thought it would be compared to the C6. Thats the view i get on the numbers and the whole view for not releasing any performance data in general for that matter.

Last edited by red2012; 01-22-2013 at 02:38 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:46 PM   #10
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I think they are witholding the numbers so that the buzz can be rekindled in the near future.
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Old 01-22-2013, 02:51 PM   #11
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I wonder if people understand the meaning of the word ESTIMATED
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:02 PM   #12
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Quote:
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I wonder if people understand the meaning of the word ESTIMATED


The numbers are estimating and they are bhp. They don't quote numbers in rhwp.

Last edited by chaase; 01-22-2013 at 03:06 PM.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:05 PM   #13
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450whp = ~520bhp so doubtful.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:11 PM   #14
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Quote:
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I wonder if people understand the meaning of the word ESTIMATED
Shhh, even though it's in print in tons of places. LOL.. Now some will say that there are some places that just said 450...end of story. I think it will be more...we shall see.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:14 PM   #15
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I wonder if people understand the meaning of the word ESTIMATED
Right. Like GM has been known to understate the truth, LOL.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:23 PM   #16
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Right. Like GM has been known to understate the truth, LOL.
The ZR1 was estimated at 620. The ZL1 was estimated at 550. That's the history we have to go by. My guess is 465-470hp. More than enough for a base car.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:26 PM   #17
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Quote:
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I wonder if people understand the meaning of the word ESTIMATED
On this board that means wishful thinking.

Every HP rating is an estimate, even the SAE one or the one on your bumper.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:29 PM   #18
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Nope.

A lot of these whiners are spoiled. People complain about the lack of power increases and start explaining how its sad there is only an extra 15hp with all of these new technical features, but somehow overlook that the LT1 has an extra 50lbft over the LS3 in the lower RPMs.

Geeze guys. Even at 450hp, the LT1 is a very good motor.
The LT1 is definitely a good engine and no doubt the extra torque will be fantastic in the lower RPMs...absolutely no arguments there.

However, when racing, I don't dip below 4000 RPM so the extra torque doesn't mean squat to me. HP is what accelerates a vehicle so HP is what I want. Therefore, I will complain loudly with my wallet if the LT1 comes in at 450 HP...there's not enough of a performance difference between 436 and 450 to move me to the C7. The Camaro tail lights means GM better come to market with at least 475 HP for me to even think about it, 500 HP will help me seriously consider a C7. My 2˘ from a different perspective.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:31 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boil View Post
Now, correct me if I am wrong here, but I think many who are crying about the 450hp/450tq numbers being too low might be thinking of "at the crankshaft" numbers…

What if GM is actually giving us "at the rear wheels" numbers…!?!

Discuss…
All factory HP numbers are net HP at the flywheel. No one other than speed shops uses RWHP numbers.

Net HP is as installed in the car with all accessories, smog equipment, exhaust, and intake systems in place and operational.
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Old 01-22-2013, 03:33 PM   #20
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Don't get your panties in a wad! The base C7 will smoke a base C6 you can bet on that. Its called technology. That does not mean a base C6 is not a fine car, but it is a generation old when it comes to technology and that results in advantages for the newer model.
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