The End Of Power Mods With C7/LT1 PCM? (Serious Question)
02-09-2013, 07:49 PM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The End Of Power Mods With C7/LT1 PCM? (Serious Question)
I can't help wonder that with cylinder-deactivation and other tighter PCM controls over the C7 LT1, that anything requiring a new tune will be trouble for the C7. Bad news for Corvette tuners? Will race teams avoid this LT1 engine?
No Long-Tube Headers
No Cams
No Superchargers
No Long-Tube Headers
No Cams
No Superchargers
02-09-2013, 07:58 PM
#4
Race teams will not run the same pcm as the production car.
If the pcm really uses public key encryption, it will be un-breakable / tunable.
The white paper I read was written by Texas Instruments oem group; the standards for using public key encryption would call for a different key for each ecu, meaning even if you hacked one, it would not be repeatable.
So you could still tune it, but you would need a 5-10k standalone to do it.
If the pcm really uses public key encryption, it will be un-breakable / tunable.
The white paper I read was written by Texas Instruments oem group; the standards for using public key encryption would call for a different key for each ecu, meaning even if you hacked one, it would not be repeatable.
So you could still tune it, but you would need a 5-10k standalone to do it.
02-09-2013, 07:59 PM
#5
Drifting
Cylinder shut off can be removed from the current motors that have it. I don't see why the same couldn't be done here. I am sure the PCM will be flashable like any other that GM has put out.
02-09-2013, 08:18 PM
#7
02-09-2013, 11:14 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
I read somewhere in the past year an interview with one of the corvette engineers, where they felt the performance aftermarket was kinda symbiotic, helped overall with selling vettes. The C7 will have headers, cams, intakes, blowers - just like the C6, because its good business, so why not?
Last edited by v26278; 02-09-2013 at 11:47 PM.
02-09-2013, 11:47 PM
#9
Sr.Random input generator
02-10-2013, 12:02 AM
#10
This is what I am thinking as well. When the LT1 engine becomes available as a crate engine, it will need to come with an open ECU so the customers can adapt the engine to the car it will be implanted into. Now, even that kind of an ECU could come locked and require certain hardware to work properly (or adapt to any common configuration), but that is less likely in my opinion. If and once such an ECU is out, I'm sure some would put it into a C7 and see what it does
02-10-2013, 12:38 AM
#12
Melting Slicks
Or you could select sport or track mode, which turns it off, and save all that money. Plus, keep your warranty intact.
02-10-2013, 01:06 AM
#14
I had the same concerns, which I voiced in the days before the release. I'm content to sit and wait until EFILive and HPTuners have their hands on the e92 PCM.
Or not. Thanks for being so very helpful.
Or not. Thanks for being so very helpful.
02-10-2013, 01:33 AM
#15
Melting Slicks
02-10-2013, 02:10 AM
#16
Le Mans Master
But I could see the possibility, at least for the simple bolt ons. Now cams and internals might be a whole different story.
02-10-2013, 03:50 AM
#17
Le Mans Master
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I can't help wonder that with cylinder-deactivation and other tighter PCM controls over the C7 LT1, that anything requiring a new tune will be trouble for the C7. Bad news for Corvette tuners? Will race teams avoid this LT1 engine?
No Long-Tube Headers
No Cams
No Superchargers
No Long-Tube Headers
No Cams
No Superchargers
Guys, AFM won't activate while in sport or track mode. Just an FYI. Here's a quote from a video with one of the Corvette engineers explaining this:
...especially now that you can have the active fuel management system. And that is one thing that... it's really in control of the driver; talking to customers, you know people; you know, "I want the V8 all the time." Again, depending on what mode you're in. If you're in the, you know, the track mode or the sport mode - or whatever - you can have the V8 mode all the time. You put it in the eco mode and you get the... So the driver still remains in control of that; even though all you have to do is hit the accelerator and it will... and it will... it will change. But you know when you're cruising around, 70... 65... whatever...
Read below.
Entirely possible. I would think it would be just a matter of programing a wider variety of paramiters in the stock tune. If the ECM recognizes more air intake flow, it adjusts A/F accordingly, for example. While maintaining proper emission standards for those in "sniff test" states? I really don't know for sure, just kinda talkin out my ....
But I could see the possibility, at least for the simple bolt ons. Now cams and internals might be a whole different story.
But I could see the possibility, at least for the simple bolt ons. Now cams and internals might be a whole different story.
In the past, this would have been difficult due to hardware resource limitations. But these days, computer and IC hardware is so good and inexpensive that software can be written to handle situations where parameters can change dynamically and chain reactions of "child" processes and "forked" threads can be updated/modified to continue to work properly and in an optimal fashion.
While I'm a pretty good programmer, I'm sure the software engineers GM hires for ECU development are far better than I am in software development. That being said, and considering GM has already described the ECU's hardware as fully modern and able to handle millions of operations per second now, I would venture a guess that the GM engineers didn't write their software with fixed or "static" hard-coded variables, but rather, every engine's ECU learns from the ground up and builds its parameters dynamically. So in theory, no matter what mods you do to your motor, it will be able to work with those mods as if they were dyno-tuned in.
After all, if a motor's ECU knows the basics of what makes the engine run (and run efficiently) and has all the sensors (data input) to effectively manage 100% of the base life-support variables for the engine, there's no reason the ECU can't effectively tune itself for any mod under any fuel type and in any environment dynamically. Doing so would ALWAYS yield the most efficient results no matter what day it is.
02-10-2013, 10:17 AM
#18
Le Mans Master
In the past, this would have been difficult due to hardware resource limitations. But these days, computer and IC hardware is so good and inexpensive that software can be written to handle situations where parameters can change dynamically and chain reactions of "child" processes and "forked" threads can be updated/modified to continue to work properly and in an optimal fashion.
While I'm a pretty good programmer, I'm sure the software engineers GM hires for ECU development are far better than I am in software development. That being said, and considering GM has already described the ECU's hardware as fully modern and able to handle millions of operations per second now, I would venture a guess that the GM engineers didn't write their software with fixed or "static" hard-coded variables, but rather, every engine's ECU learns from the ground up and builds its parameters dynamically. So in theory, no matter what mods you do to your motor, it will be able to work with those mods as if they were dyno-tuned in.
After all, if a motor's ECU knows the basics of what makes the engine run (and run efficiently) and has all the sensors (data input) to effectively manage 100% of the base life-support variables for the engine, there's no reason the ECU can't effectively tune itself for any mod under any fuel type and in any environment dynamically. Doing so would ALWAYS yield the most efficient results no matter what day it is.
While I'm a pretty good programmer, I'm sure the software engineers GM hires for ECU development are far better than I am in software development. That being said, and considering GM has already described the ECU's hardware as fully modern and able to handle millions of operations per second now, I would venture a guess that the GM engineers didn't write their software with fixed or "static" hard-coded variables, but rather, every engine's ECU learns from the ground up and builds its parameters dynamically. So in theory, no matter what mods you do to your motor, it will be able to work with those mods as if they were dyno-tuned in.
After all, if a motor's ECU knows the basics of what makes the engine run (and run efficiently) and has all the sensors (data input) to effectively manage 100% of the base life-support variables for the engine, there's no reason the ECU can't effectively tune itself for any mod under any fuel type and in any environment dynamically. Doing so would ALWAYS yield the most efficient results no matter what day it is.
02-10-2013, 10:46 AM
#19
Team Owner
Dynamic tuning is very possible, and probable, however when making major changes such as a cam upgrade or FI, the real question becomes how far will the nannies let the motor drift? Will it change valve timing or spray duration to fully take advantage of the upgrades, or retain some sort of factory profile with respect to emissions, to dumb down the mods?
I think at least one of the tuners has already announce their intention to buy an early model to start trying to crack the code. Like anything, there certainly will be some point where they get in, but the question really becomes how soon?
I think at least one of the tuners has already announce their intention to buy an early model to start trying to crack the code. Like anything, there certainly will be some point where they get in, but the question really becomes how soon?
02-10-2013, 10:51 AM
#20
Melting Slicks
