GM - come on with the info already!
02-15-2013, 01:51 PM
#21
Team Owner
So they know from the engineering drawings how much an A-Arm weighs? And if they hollow cast it or make it from magnesium....
And then they have a person in charge of adding up all those individual parts and the weight of lubricants, grease, foam rubber in the seats, carpet, bolts and nuts so they can provide an exact weight.
Right. That makes sense. Until they scale a production vehicle and give that certified weight to the EPA for federal classification, everything is an estimate.
And then they have a person in charge of adding up all those individual parts and the weight of lubricants, grease, foam rubber in the seats, carpet, bolts and nuts so they can provide an exact weight.
Right. That makes sense. Until they scale a production vehicle and give that certified weight to the EPA for federal classification, everything is an estimate.
02-15-2013, 01:55 PM
#22
Le Mans Master
Probably Still Tweaking It!
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
And they never got it completely handled!
02-15-2013, 02:07 PM
#23
do you have any idea what the lead time is for production molds, all that fancy welding equipment for the frames, etc is?
You don't order production equipment/tooling etc without having the design pretty well pinned down.
"Oh wait a minute guys. I think we can shave a pound off this fender. I know it's only a month before we are scheduled to go into production, but don't you think we can have a new set of $500,000 fender molds made in time?. How about this new modification in the frame's design? Can't we get new stamping dies done in a month and then get the welding fixtures modified. Come on guys, you can do it. We have a whole month."
You don't order production equipment/tooling etc without having the design pretty well pinned down.
"Oh wait a minute guys. I think we can shave a pound off this fender. I know it's only a month before we are scheduled to go into production, but don't you think we can have a new set of $500,000 fender molds made in time?. How about this new modification in the frame's design? Can't we get new stamping dies done in a month and then get the welding fixtures modified. Come on guys, you can do it. We have a whole month."
They aren't a month from going into production. If you think they can't change some things with months to go, you don't know manufacturing. Obviously they can if they feel it is important enough.
02-15-2013, 02:18 PM
#24
Team Owner
I know that some things change. Otherwise, why bother to test and retest? Better to change something now than when actual production starts. Of course the design is "pretty well pinned down" but that sure doesn't mean they cannot change something.
They aren't a month from going into production. If you think they can't change some things with months to go, you don't know manufacturing. Obviously they can if they feel it is important enough.
They aren't a month from going into production. If you think they can't change some things with months to go, you don't know manufacturing. Obviously they can if they feel it is important enough.
Have you ever heard of manufacturing and industrial engineering? They are different from the design engineers. They don't design/build/purchase the equipment/tooling to build a vehicle before the vehicle is designed and have the plant layout done before they know what they are going to be building.
You first design the product, then you design the equipment/tooling/work stations, etc to build it, not the other way around.
02-15-2013, 02:23 PM
#25
Safety Car
Yes they do but that doesn't mean they can't/won't change their minds about things at this point. They could be shaving weight, changing their minds about components or what those components are made of, moving things, etc.
It's still 6 months till they build one for the public on the line. They just aren't ready to tell you everything yet and they will when they feel like it. That's ok by me.
It's still 6 months till they build one for the public on the line. They just aren't ready to tell you everything yet and they will when they feel like it. That's ok by me.
?When they finalize and are ready for production, then we will know. Relax and enjoy the anticipation. 
02-15-2013, 02:29 PM
#26
Melting Slicks
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02-15-2013, 02:40 PM
#27
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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They are still testing the first trial (read half hand built) cars off the production line - hot weather testing and cold weather testing. Results could effect changes in engine management systems, possible gear ratio changes and newly designed parts could even fatigue or fail in extreme weather testing, necessitating a redesign, which could change weights.
Remember this is a car that's not for sale. Final production models do not exist. Surely you're not suggesting they weigh and measure a Mule?
Remember this is a car that's not for sale. Final production models do not exist. Surely you're not suggesting they weigh and measure a Mule?
02-15-2013, 02:43 PM
#28
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St. Jude Donor '06-'07-'08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15- '16-'17-‘18-‘19-'20-'21
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02-15-2013, 02:44 PM
#29
Team Owner
The car hasn't been released yet. It has been revealed. In automotive parlance that means we've let you see it so we can finish our testing of the car out in the open. Keeping the car under wraps precludes them from doing all of the testing that they want to do (specific to drivability) under all the conditions and circumstances they want to evaluate.
To your point for example, the Lexus 2013 LFA was revealed during the Detroit Autoshow and some of it's specifications (weight distribution, ground clearance, etc. are all listed as TBD.) It's just the way it is. Lot's of manufacturers release some, not all in the form of preliminary specifications.
I really wish people would realize that some of these numbers are still being refined. They aren't released because they aren't final. God knows if they put something preliminary out there some on this forum would tear them a new one if it changes by one gram or millimetereter and they will be called liars.
It's not a conspiracy, it is development. When the numbers are done, they will be released and this will be prior to anyone being able to officially order one. Notice you can't buy one yet....because it isn't available for sale.
To your point for example, the Lexus 2013 LFA was revealed during the Detroit Autoshow and some of it's specifications (weight distribution, ground clearance, etc. are all listed as TBD.) It's just the way it is. Lot's of manufacturers release some, not all in the form of preliminary specifications.
I really wish people would realize that some of these numbers are still being refined. They aren't released because they aren't final. God knows if they put something preliminary out there some on this forum would tear them a new one if it changes by one gram or millimetereter and they will be called liars.
It's not a conspiracy, it is development. When the numbers are done, they will be released and this will be prior to anyone being able to officially order one. Notice you can't buy one yet....because it isn't available for sale.
Last edited by talon90; 02-15-2013 at 05:34 PM.
02-15-2013, 04:30 PM
#30
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission [we know 7spd manual (with released ratios both Z51 and base) and 6speed auto], engine data [they've released tons of engine info, including estimated power and economy numbers], car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission [we know 7spd manual (with released ratios both Z51 and base) and 6speed auto], engine data [they've released tons of engine info, including estimated power and economy numbers], car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
02-15-2013, 05:35 PM
#32
Le Mans Master
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They will be installing new equipment in the plant starting next month. The equipment/tooling to build the frames in completed and installed. If they don't have any idea what the final design is going to be, how do design the equipment used to build the stupid car. Do you have any idea of the lead time required?
Have you ever heard of manufacturing and industrial engineering? They are different from the design engineers. They don't design/build/purchase the equipment/tooling to build a vehicle before the vehicle is designed and have the plant layout done before they know what they are going to be building.
You first design the product, then you design the equipment/tooling/work stations, etc to build it, not the other way around.
Have you ever heard of manufacturing and industrial engineering? They are different from the design engineers. They don't design/build/purchase the equipment/tooling to build a vehicle before the vehicle is designed and have the plant layout done before they know what they are going to be building.
You first design the product, then you design the equipment/tooling/work stations, etc to build it, not the other way around.
My goodness, you know everything about everything about the total process. All other thoughts and opinions CF members express seem to be pure dribble to you. Perhaps we all should just sit quietly at our computers and wait for your next posting to enlighten our poor uniformed souls . . . . the wrath of offering any of our original thoughts is just too much to bear
02-15-2013, 05:51 PM
#33
Team Owner
My goodness, you know everything about everything about the total process. All other thoughts and opinions CF members express seem to be pure dribble to you. Perhaps we all should just sit quietly at our computers and wait for your next posting to enlighten our poor uniformed souls . . . . the wrath of offering any of our original thoughts is just too much to bear
02-15-2013, 05:55 PM
#34
I've yet to see another auto manufacture release a new car that they don't give ALL the specs for, makes no sense.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
All the hipe of the reveal and in some aspects it was a let down. Yes the pics say it almost looks great, but the design does still has have some issues, but the important things, like product transmission, engine data, car weight are no where to be found, it's an incomplete story.
The only thing, I wonder if they really don't know until they actually get a production car off the new line? Just a thought, but that doesn't make sense either.
How do you market a product that the customer doesn't really get to know what they are buying until you buy it? I should have known - EBAY
GM - the public / the BUYERS would like to know - how about telling us all the specs on the production car.
02-15-2013, 05:57 PM
#35
Race Director
They will be installing new equipment in the plant starting next month. The equipment/tooling to build the frames in completed and installed. If they don't have any idea what the final design is going to be, how do design the equipment used to build the stupid car. Do you have any idea of the lead time required?
Have you ever heard of manufacturing and industrial engineering? They are different from the design engineers. They don't design/build/purchase the equipment/tooling to build a vehicle before the vehicle is designed and have the plant layout done before they know what they are going to be building.
You first design the product, then you design the equipment/tooling/work stations, etc to build it, not the other way around.
Have you ever heard of manufacturing and industrial engineering? They are different from the design engineers. They don't design/build/purchase the equipment/tooling to build a vehicle before the vehicle is designed and have the plant layout done before they know what they are going to be building.
You first design the product, then you design the equipment/tooling/work stations, etc to build it, not the other way around.
Never in the history of the planet has an individual strung together so many correct statements, and yet so completely missed the point being made by the individuals with whom he is arguing.
I salute you sir for this singular accomplishment.
02-15-2013, 06:04 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
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Oh Joseph - it's not how much one knows - it's how kindly one treats others in sharing and transferring information that distinguishes oneself. Those of us who are otherwise or less informed are not second class citizens and do not deserve to be belittled for our thoughts and opinions. It wouldn't be much of a Forum if only your knowledge counted . . . .
02-15-2013, 06:08 PM
#37
My goodness, you know everything about everything about the total process. All other thoughts and opinions CF members express seem to be pure dribble to you. Perhaps we all should just sit quietly at our computers and wait for your next posting to enlighten our poor uniformed souls . . . . the wrath of offering any of our original thoughts is just too much to bear
02-15-2013, 06:19 PM
#38
Burning Brakes
For some reason the C7 reminds of a mixture of the Subaru BRZ/FRS and politics...
Way too much of hype and beating around the bush with no real answers or results.
Way too much of hype and beating around the bush with no real answers or results.
02-15-2013, 06:24 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
02-15-2013, 06:24 PM
#40
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None of the cars out right now are current production. Why give out data that isn't 100% concrete of what the consumer is going to get? I'm sure GM knows how much each mule Corvette weighs. I'm sure some things might change before production..
Weight going up? Give it more power, etc.